X-CGP-ClamAV-Result: CLEAN X-VirusScanner: Niversoft's CGPClamav Helper v1.23.0 (ClamAV engine v0.103.0) From: "Finn Lassen finn.lassen@verizon.net" Received: from sonic308-37.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com ([66.163.187.60] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.2.14) with ESMTPS id 1274592 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Wed, 03 Mar 2021 19:46:14 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=66.163.187.60; envelope-from=finn.lassen@verizon.net DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=verizon.net; s=a2048; t=1614818757; bh=8RrFLlIohbgmTJxnoYpPW6eOBfUgz+smRIIiywVUIos=; h=Subject:To:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To:From:Subject:Reply-To; b=FOk2AqhNjC2wJw0o7UUF1YBn59FTk6brxB5hxrR+VijlLddGS0G/CQNtLbLRFxQ2WgHxtiJpNyMJEZNpI8wyLQ9rHYdu2qwnfsGMSIOY38AuJXr9kntPX0H2oBuis0N1mIpUmjnY/qM2nKY4zAOwoftqjYvFWaQKFg6T0JcOhcRjHdxRKN648ERfTuSO0LbSzic/OqBDhfBVpcHn4G1ROCmaUg8P08Iw86Qd0VRSbeVz+InrT5RvX1A4Nqjn1Ps5db5fEhPD1BH4CZEMqkSXXsMfb8rrOQ7hGJGNOSNWNWYNcZhTW6L90WiyBDDsT+A1IHAadzg2AwnDSOjJ2egoLQ== X-SONIC-DKIM-SIGN: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1614818757; bh=21bOCUFspt1M5rFV/lN1ZSTzikZOHLBcyuswpd9nF8+=; h=X-Sonic-MF:Subject:To:From:Date:From:Subject; b=AwPl0884xfRSVokZKq8iYVYU0aUNBOmnYpAvGVbtGUKcYxSYZFrrIRn+je0BgiOKGwkPRUygx8ioMAjizgjgiyVRKbmoCs7Hkpiadn0fEX0eO+8I1WnYCh5yo80j1RZ5C89c0Y7wie1M3iFvJaF9raO9SF/WpPyY+fB3zmsIUZ45bKjTUevaagUpH7F2ecTgMapW6Hu+5rr/FZ1ZuZyAv/A5C3CmqOckH4m+cuMf4GPmZBc2HxvdrP7oewt1D/eFA7MMsowpLvVw9ikOWPLh8PxOIFbdG5BuGfmLPazuIs3P/EVg5LrpW9aS+mAXrTET8pmnaax0j+snhK16FfsP0Q== X-YMail-OSG: Gpgc7rAVM1mDwRj92JYy0PNfKyfxOjt9rTYpAcluoR9o8ObwFRjfhdItxdkh5lI sYi8SsD6X0r5Cz6kcyohyweZQqusQGrODwd1EmEg4iSWIIkHixI5znUQqj0j9oDHllnbLmL74Px3 AnheCPowIcit.aFT0NGFZgccycxZL4RSTnukExtGHs5fDZn24VajIWh6YPbN7sSw1viscepxtU7m _juWySCQYOTTdsdS03OeS_KHnIUTeUA2qQcb90t_yY3CAU8vGBQnshkYvHVW0KAgsfU.nTUzAvRB 0pNijl4IfSnvJV2vNLl1scAjt43w0tWU6lDM5f0Dnt_alZR.M1i6M92TeF6Ijkvc7NsMOf4e0vlN dFpqllekGeIvo4EgtGkZPFI41gy0fMw1K6VnNOCgxX_ddmJ1b2MWhMR1Z81RPsizYbLMs8m0Hx0L jJWNMJOR824VJ0pUZbe49cExjHVow4Q.rnkGeJYJhx8pq3giPbNN5DZKVcnk2ASxtBjYN28B54kY AOwNVz.NBYdpqQM2PwTKY0C7bIoktNTyhbWUHTjUfpFCBib65i9HzjObVEN5Ooa7sqwfoEWAhjRR BS1E.wRPcl2yOhPfsj8MmLqnlCi1kSZ3k6IK5Y7exyvdzzApDdJcdeK0g_4GwWkqIrVAC9fhnHT9 TI8Cg408whxViV.UGzadzkEXdJ_XzRl.ubZxQpIOPb0CUvlCbU88OXsdq5IUw64sngXUfEZ8OfDM w6I8vNzXzw7ZEO8Ze78Iwsi6Klx4469VVyN5kiS0rEML.4unqaBMubkyz3TlmK2vQoOd2CQUUP7p hYaMtXraHLyWD2skPmGgBiwhBr.dfjGmjNWQyiJlj1N7hlXfOjdSLoJO4hV0k86XpSm4vjDXB.57 BmM.Q.8To2untiGtnxWb7z0zh70RL3TCRvBBLM1QCXhIPj5e.76dV179EEMaJumFBt7ZHon7Yoqm Ra1pN7_B8nKxZZwoYvHN5DAOYgip5UF6yLtuZoLUUDcnhN0PGcx.Co1okUJrOyBjPd.AS_PhkylV .GQ.8MNgODkQHqj.9dMz8nK7gZLZfdMbnBvyO7NgR4cM772txivRMSuqeluaWjr4fPdH3cliWgoj mMnoON4iSAe5G8W1R.ATA.kPM.78a0SQQppMz5KQOJgBXJXRGvfuqb7Gy6Kjt15Z6yZUdPXk3gou o6BNHYiZuKnRSAf3OxLYstGgEKmXrWWIyM5kYx44piOQpRCVY9R0O8ZGA8N9vUvHA4lpSIszqffy 8ugPJiDHQg5fEc_aBFlvFUEnqxnS5W_LgFD.t9h02UJScWeu1jfGX7gaGisuqC14HhqUqO6.W_ef vRnJZxP2y2xKnjtZbAY3u.BI.Gx6hVbgIWIkqT9OjGw7jCCL68CLxXK5ZELcvJjJJTLDLt9mYlIC eMC8nOUCKo1VhhST8i3kFh49F1EiuE5fEnwN4GMvNc4cLEXUi.IZS2DzuuNRTwo4oZhVMoTO9ncJ N2MyzW62IMG.77Yt0yyQ8pKNshfNlGE_zUvmDunDfkb8JBh_ju221IJZ6.zP31hZXZyKf0WrIDJ1 3BPtqja7YGKjLjOjQf5E0fHEULhaWMKoFfHmKlLUnDlNvGzpOjevFDmSljl147qoNihYoGflSYJr hczXQ_V6tUeliHlAERriTSmlXLitIgmSHPill55eNLHiGY3mpgHZG_CYZLyDLMRHkM..HXM8ABGN Or.deCWVO7qXfWzLiHobjWQ4K4WYw1dnVcGPaOQKBpp8YXch.Ox6Ug0Ine5YMpRuPFW2rWSvZtOP FNbd3PMMhDvtXQP..MAA_3jGZbyQW.DVqI0ErbbPdlQToVVDpI.0Ay8UCyHv4U9tneE7S_DkOUli V3wucUAO3ELKReFfZT959nBs4BUuNnUqBRV__5qnU8lfaWuzsyQPNlmGOXDrwXQ2axtL1tFfVuKB SGRnj8RBKJHD_NSp7fZLLuXr5mWPp02qKjPfzYtkD081pFXqLGAGPfWBKbVm0qK_FYupenK.X7L8 YseiYtRHepYW2qxypDOBni0mAwUQUA4r5XgbN8VjNlSuFTNVu9g6wK7IRqSox0QXbLLP9CP1Yo4C duRUmA13eUphtvl4bKFE_ajddfcEZf3VDgVuEuDO9Jxu5xA_7QPi4GQiLmhd4Z6I9F0ZYjZbrzwZ rcmEpQTmn5gJqc5mw1rP9CDutauNBUbBf8LR4OUmHh5SS9epH.F7qv41kacfWxpx.sBidci2_l_. B7Ho_KCJaMObkMKgB2vl7WiZvH6uHWCF_oA3Ym9GfnUOUsbwZDE4ckxO8g9G0BH515Rbqi8.ZK7U Sp1_PLa7SX2pGUusXntUI20gp3iWSor7bS6OesBkpiAf62yrv86WFzJaW01ltPrN_LCukN3nwYWJ ZKZ5g X-Sonic-MF: Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic308.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with HTTP; Thu, 4 Mar 2021 00:45:57 +0000 Received: by smtp408.mail.bf1.yahoo.com (VZM Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID eef0b1eba58b874d0096e76a492b521f; Thu, 04 Mar 2021 00:43:56 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: RD-1C input shaft oil seal To: Rotary motors in aircraft References: Message-ID: Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2021 19:43:55 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------1680557DE122CAA99CBC7AC1" Content-Language: en-US X-Antivirus: Avast (VPS 210303-8, 03/03/2021), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.17712 mail.backend.jedi.jws.acl:role.jedi.acl.token.atz.jws.hermes.aol Apache-HttpAsyncClient/4.1.4 (Java/11.0.9.1) Content-Length: 30812 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------1680557DE122CAA99CBC7AC1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dang! I just bought two of the National 350909 (single-lip) seals. I can see how I could add a retainer, but don't see enough space in the 1/2" plate for an o-ring. I added a vent to my RWS RD-1C drive, so internal pressure should not be an issue (unless vent line gets clogged). Finn On 3/3/2021 3:23 PM, lehanover lehanover@aol.com wrote: > For nearly every oil seal there is a double lip oil seal that fits in > the same space.  I used these on rotary engines and transmissions. I > also installed a thin "O" ring in the base of each hole so no matter > what might happen, the seal would always seal. A seal retainer also > was applied so that the seal could not move out of the cavity any > amount at all.  When using a double lip seal, add a bit of synthetic > grease between the lips so that both lips are lubricated always. On > the main seal I shortened the spring a bit to add a bit more pressure. > My engines did not leak at all but a failed side seal or oil scraper > can suddenly dump sump gasses or oil into the case.  Better a few more > minutes of power than not.  I also glued them in with GE 100% tub and > tile caulk. > I had one oil seal escape the tail shaft of a transmission early in > life. The tranns got real hot, the hole got bigger than the seal, the > seal fell out. The trans lost all of it's oil. I lost the transmission. > Rotaries require a crank case breather to keep such loading off of the > seals. Actual airplanes have such breather separators.  Excessive blow > by can turn seals inside out and ruin a day, or just generate annoying > leaks. > Lynn E. Hanover > In a message dated 2/26/2021 9:00:38 AM Eastern Standard Time, > flyrotary@lancaironline.net writes: > > Finn, > > Steve posted a picture of three different 5mm bearings back in > 2019. The AZK35525 I ordered and received has a bronze inner and > steel outer race. I have no idea on the oil seals. > > Bobby > > *From:*Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] > *Sent:* Thursday, February 25, 2021 3:28 PM > *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft > *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: RD-1C input shaft oil seal > > Thanks Bobby! > > When I Google *AZK35525* most pictures don't show any races. Not > included? > > Any significant difference between the Timken and National 350909 > seals? > > Finn > > On 2/25/2021 3:59 PM, Bobby Hughes BHughes@qnsinc.net > wrote: > > Finn, > > A few us are / were using the bearing Steve identified. I had > 34.5 hours on the new bearing when I sold the RV10. The > bearing still look new. > > > > 5MM needle cage assy  bronze inner race / steel outer race > 35mm *AZK35525* > > > > 35mm > > > > 52mm > > > > 5mm > > > > ** > > > > *7000 rpm* > > My oil seal was leaking and replaced at the same time as the > 5MM bearing. The leak was only detectable at idle. A small > streak of oil was form below the seal. In flight the oil would > blow everywhere making it impossible to located the source. > > 350909 > > > > Rear Oil Seal  National Oil Seal > > Bobby – S21 kit has arrived. > > *From:*Rotary motors in aircraft > [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] > *Sent:* Thursday, February 25, 2021 12:46 PM > *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft > *Subject:* [FlyRotary] RD-1C input shaft oil seal > > So there's a bunch of posts of input shaft oil seal failures. > > But what is the recommended oil seal? > > I think I've traced my oil leak to that. (Tricky because found > drops on > fittings near oil filter base after last flight. But after > wrapping > paper towels around the fittings and doing a ground run-up, > only traces > of oil is on the outside of them -- likely slung up from the > input shaft). > > On a different note. January last year I bought a “INA 81107TN > Cylindrical Roller Thrust Bearing, Polyamide Nylon Cage, Open > End, > Metric, 35mm ID, 52mm OD, 12mm Width, 6500rpm Maximum > Rotational Speed” > on Amazon for $18.40 to replace the input thrust bearings on > my RV-3B. > (The stacked bearings are cutting a groove in the shaft.) Now > the same > bearing set costs $135 and up. WTF! Did find SKF 81107TN on > eBay for > $30.50. But dang! No inflation? > > Finn > > > --- > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus > software. > https://www.avast.com/antivirus > > > -- > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > Archive and UnSub: > http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html > > > *Disclaimer* > > The information contained in this communication from the > sender is confidential. It is intended solely for use by the > recipient and others authorized to receive it. If you are not > the recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, > copying, distribution or taking action in relation of the > contents of this information is strictly prohibited and may be > unlawful. > > This email has been scanned for viruses and malware, and may > have been automatically archived by *Mimecast Ltd*, an > innovator in Software as a Service (SaaS) for business. > Providing a *safer* and *more useful* place for your human > generated data. Specializing in; Security, archiving and > compliance. To find out more Click Here > . > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Image removed by sender. Avast logo > > > > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > www.avast.com > > > > -- > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > Archive and UnSub: > http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html > > > > -- > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html --------------1680557DE122CAA99CBC7AC1 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Dang! I just bought two of the National 350909 (single-lip) seals.

I can see how I could add a retainer, but don't see enough space in the 1/2" plate for an o-ring.
I added a vent to my RWS RD-1C drive, so internal pressure should not be an issue (unless vent line gets clogged).

Finn

On 3/3/2021 3:23 PM, lehanover lehanover@aol.com wrote:
For nearly every oil seal there is a double lip oil seal that fits in the same space.  I used these on rotary engines and transmissions. I also installed a thin "O" ring in the base of each hole so no matter what might happen, the seal would always seal. A seal retainer also was applied so that the seal could not move out of the cavity any amount at all.  When using a double lip seal, add a bit of synthetic grease between the lips so that both lips are lubricated always.  On the main seal I shortened the spring a bit to add a bit more pressure. 
 
My engines did not leak at all but a failed side seal or oil scraper can suddenly dump sump gasses or oil into the case.  Better a few more minutes of power than not.  I also glued them in with GE 100% tub and tile caulk.
 
I had one oil seal escape the tail shaft of a transmission early in life. The tranns got real hot, the hole got bigger than the seal, the seal fell out. The trans lost all of it's oil. I lost the transmission. 
 
Rotaries require a crank case breather to keep such loading off of the seals. Actual airplanes have such breather separators.  Excessive blow by can turn seals inside out and ruin a day, or just generate annoying leaks.
 
Lynn E. Hanover 
 
 
 
In a message dated 2/26/2021 9:00:38 AM Eastern Standard Time, flyrotary@lancaironline.net writes:
 

Finn,

 

Steve posted a picture of three different 5mm bearings back in 2019. The AZK35525 I ordered and received has a bronze inner and steel outer race. I have no idea on the oil seals.

 

Bobby

 

From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]
Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2021 3:28 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: RD-1C input shaft oil seal

 

Thanks Bobby!

When I Google AZK35525 most pictures don't show any races. Not included?

Any significant difference between the Timken and National 350909 seals?

Finn

On 2/25/2021 3:59 PM, Bobby Hughes BHughes@qnsinc.net wrote:

Finn,

 

A few us are / were using the bearing Steve identified. I had 34.5 hours on the new bearing when I sold the RV10. The bearing still look new.

 

 

5MM needle cage assy  bronze inner race / steel outer race 35mm    AZK35525

35mm

52mm

5mm

 

7000 rpm

 

My oil seal was leaking and replaced at the same time as the 5MM bearing. The leak was only detectable at idle. A small streak of oil was form below the seal. In flight the oil would blow everywhere making it impossible to located the source.

 

350909

Rear Oil Seal  National Oil Seal

 

 

Bobby – S21 kit has arrived.

 

From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]
Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2021 12:46 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] RD-1C input shaft oil seal

 

So there's a bunch of posts of input shaft oil seal failures.

But what is the recommended oil seal?

I think I've traced my oil leak to that. (Tricky because found drops on
fittings near oil filter base after last flight. But after wrapping
paper towels around the fittings and doing a ground run-up, only traces
of oil is on the outside of them -- likely slung up from the input shaft).

On a different note. January last year I bought a  “INA 81107TN
Cylindrical Roller Thrust Bearing, Polyamide Nylon Cage, Open End,
Metric, 35mm ID, 52mm OD, 12mm Width, 6500rpm Maximum Rotational Speed”
on Amazon for $18.40 to replace the input thrust bearings on my RV-3B.
(The stacked bearings are cutting a groove in the shaft.) Now the same
bearing set costs $135 and up. WTF! Did find SKF 81107TN on eBay for
$30.50. But dang! No inflation?

Finn


---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus


--
Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/
Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html

 

Disclaimer

The information contained in this communication from the sender is confidential. It is intended solely for use by the recipient and others authorized to receive it. If you are not the recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or taking action in relation of the contents of this information is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful.

This email has been scanned for viruses and malware, and may have been automatically archived by Mimecast Ltd, an innovator in Software as a Service (SaaS) for business. Providing a safer and more useful place for your human generated data. Specializing in; Security, archiving and compliance. To find out more Click Here.

 

 

Image removed by sender. Avast logo

This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
www.avast.com



--
Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
Archive and UnSub:  http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html


--
Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
Archive and UnSub:   http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html


--------------1680557DE122CAA99CBC7AC1--