X-CGP-ClamAV-Result: CLEAN X-VirusScanner: Niversoft's CGPClamav Helper v1.23.0 (ClamAV engine v0.103.0) From: "RES res12@fairpoint.net" Received: from [208.80.203.1] (HELO smtp.email-protect.gosecure.net) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.2.14) with ESMTPS id 1200104 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sun, 07 Feb 2021 14:35:16 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=208.80.203.1; envelope-from=res12@fairpoint.net Received: from mailproxy6.neonova.net ([137.118.40.136]) by smtp.email-protect.gosecure.net ({860aa792-6830-11eb-90b9-addd162e3c38}) via TCP (outbound) with ESMTP id 20210207193458604_00002371 for ; Sun, 07 Feb 2021 11:34:58 -0800 X-RC-FROM: X-RC-RCPT: Received: from [IPv6:::ffff:192.168.2.8] (dflo-67-158-146-123.gtcom.net [67.158.146.123]) (Authenticated sender: res12@fairpoint.net) by mailproxy6.neonova.net (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 3AD4C6139A1 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 2021 14:34:54 -0500 (EST) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Richard Sohn?? Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2021 13:32:02 -0600 Importance: normal X-Priority: 3 In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_35D84C84-D843-4B11-8030-F6E327E66811_" Message-ID: <20210207193458604@smtp.email-protect.gosecure.net> X-DLP-OUTBOUND: 137.118.40.128/25 X-MAG-OUTBOUND: greymail.email-protect.gosecure.net@137.118.40.128/25 --_35D84C84-D843-4B11-8030-F6E327E66811_ Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Hi Ed, I am still here. Done flying. I still have the AVID with the single = rotor operational. Don=E2=80=99t know what to do with it.=20 On my third flight I did not pay enough attention on the run up. When I too= k off, lost power and the engine quit. Put it down in a cotton field with o= ut a scratch. Had to replace the rotor housing and the seals. The reason wa= s over heating because of low coolant level.=20 Bei the time I had fixed the engine, I realized it was time to call it quit= s with all the experimentation and test piloting while I have some time lef= t to enjoying some ground time.=20 That is where I am. Richard Sent from Mail for Windows 10 From: eanderson@carolina.rr.com Sent: Sunday, February 7, 2021 11:45 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Richard Sohn?? Does anyone know if Richard Sohn is still on the fly rotary list?=C2=A0 =C2= =A0He did some amazing work with a single rotary version he made and I know= he got it airborne a time or two, but, then I have not hear anything more? Thanks Ed Anderson Rotary_Ed ------ Forwarded Message ------ From: "Richard Sohn" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" Sent: 4/3/2017 4:19:25 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: : Batteryless Fuel Injection?? I don't know what to call it, but my single rotor is running on something t= he supplier is calling fuel injection. In reality it is a somewhat advanced= Ellison carburetor. It operates without electricity, has full mixture cont= rol and a primer, which can be used for over riding vapor lock in the fuel = lines. So far, I have around 50hrs run time on the ground on two different = engines including 1hr in the air. It may be supplied from a fuel pump or gr= avity feed. The engine never have staring problems. The air time was 3 flig= hts, with the third one ending in a dead stick landing because of engine ov= erheating. The 12A based single rotor flows around 10 GPH of gas at 6300RPM WOT.=20 I have not seen a carburetor, during the single rotor development, performi= ng comparably. Hope to be in the air again soon.=20 FWIW Richard Sohn On 4/3/2017 2:44 PM, William Jepson wrote: Hi Guys,=20 Something that might be of interest is that the ORIGINAL Powersport engines= were setup with Airflow performance fuel injection. It required a fuel pum= p (which could be mechanically driven) but used a electric fuel pump. Works= very well. Not quite as accurate as the modern electronic injection, but c= an be run without a battery. Bill Jepson On Mon, Apr 3, 2017 at 7:45 AM, Jeff Whaley w= rote: Battery, alternator, recoil system =E2=80=93 ultimately there is something = spinning to create electricity to drive an electrically-dependent fuel inje= ction system.=C2=A0 Personally, with a high-wing aircraft, I=E2=80=99d like= to see a purely mechanical fuel injection system fed with gravity fuel flo= w =E2=80=93 do away with the redundant (electric) fuel pumps, 4 (electric) = injectors.=C2=A0 What we have is great as long as it all has a supply of el= ectricity; having said that I would not be without a battery in the present= environment. Jeff =C2=A0 From:=0DCharlie England =0DSubject:=0DBatteryl= ess fuel injection??=0DDate:=0DMon, 3 Apr 2017 08:10:26 -0500=0DTo:=0DRotar= y motors in aircraft =0D=0D =0D=0DJust saw this on a 'small 4stroke engine' (aviation) group: =C2=A0 quote: Hi, the info from B&S for the EFI system is a bit sketchy at the moment. It= is an open-loop system from Kokusan and completely different to the Delphi= EFI on the 810 and the big block engines: =C2=A0 Vanguard has also developed a horizontal shaft small-block (627 cc) engine,= with an initial application in fire and rescue equipment. Offered in a 23 = gross hp rating, the engine incorporates an open-loop EFI system developed = by Japan=E2=80=99s Kokusan Denki Co. Ltd. and has the ability to be operate= d with either an electric starting system using a battery or a recoil start= ing system. =E2=80=9CThis one is a bit unique,=E2=80=9D Leech said. =E2=80= =9CIt=E2=80=99s completely different than the Delphi system we use on the o= ther engines in that it can work with a battery or without. Kokusan develop= ed a technology that Delphi did not have.=E2=80=9D Batteryless EFI itself i= s not new, as it has been a staple on small two- and four-stroke engines us= ed on such things as off-road motorcycles and snowmobiles. The Kokusan syst= em uses energy generated by the pull of the recoil starter to power the eng= ine control unit (ECU), fuel pump and injectors =E2=80=94 in that order =E2= =80=94 to start the engine. The Vanguard small-block engine with recoil sta= rt has been specified by a global manufacturer of fire equipment for a port= able generator set used in fire and rescue applications =C2=A0 I bet that will create quite some interest in the flying =C2=A0apparatus ci= rcles. If the EFI is using a MAP sensor or mass flow meter, the EFI would b= e fully altitude-compensating to 3,000+ meters (10,000'). Unfortunately, I = haven't been able to source a parts manual yet to check what components are= used in the EFI system. :unquote =C2=A0 These are V-twins. Might be interesting to see if there's a way to alter th= e 90* timing to the rotary's 180 & deliver enough fuel for a rotary using t= his system & larger injectors... =C2=A0 Google search for the FI mfgr: https://www.google.com/search?q=3DKokusan&oq=3DKokusan&aqs=3Dchrome..69i57&= sourceid=3Dchrome&ie=3DUTF-8#q=3DKokusan+fuel+injection&* =C2=A0 Charlie=0D=C2=A0 This message, and the documents attached hereto, is intended only for the a= ddressee and may contain privileged or confidential information. Any unauth= orized disclosure is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message= in error, please notify us immediately so that we may correct our internal= records. Please then delete the original message. Thank you.=20 --=20 Richard Sohn 8029 County HWY 1087 DeFuniak Springs, FL 32433 --_35D84C84-D843-4B11-8030-F6E327E66811_ Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8"

Hi Ed, I am still here. Done flying. I still ha= ve the AVID with the single rotor operational. Don=E2=80=99t know what to d= o with it.

On my third flight I did not pay enough attention on the run up= . When I took off, lost power and the engine quit. Put it down in a cotton = field with out a scratch. Had to replace the rotor housing and the seals. T= he reason was over heating because of low coolant level. =

Bei the time I ha= d fixed the engine, I realized it was time to call it quits with all the ex= perimentation and test piloting while I have some time left to enjoying som= e ground time.

 

That is where I am.

 

Richard=

 

Sent fro= m Mail for= Windows 10

 

<= b>From: eanderson@caroli= na.rr.com
Sent: Sunday, February 7, 2021 11:45 AM
To: <= /b>Rotary motors in aircraft=
Subject: [FlyRotary] Richard Sohn??

 

Does anyone know if Richard So= hn is still on the fly rotary list?   He did some amazing work wi= th a single rotary version he made and I know he got it airborne a time or = two, but, then I have not hear anything more?

 

Thanks<= o:p>

 

Ed Anderson

Rotary_Ed

 

------ Forwarded Message ------

From: "Richard Sohn" <<= a href=3D"mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net">flyrotary@lancaironline.net>

To: "Rotary motors= in aircraft" <flyro= tary@lancaironline.net>

Sent: 4/3/2017 4:19:25 PM

Sub= ject: [FlyRotary] Re: : Batteryless Fuel Injection??

<= /div>

 

I don't know what to call it, but my single rotor is runnin= g on something the supplier is calling fuel injection. In reality it is a s= omewhat advanced Ellison carburetor. It operates without electricity, has f= ull mixture control and a primer, which can be used for over riding vapor l= ock in the fuel lines. So far, I have around 50hrs run time on the ground o= n two different engines including 1hr in the air. It may be supplied from a= fuel pump or gravity feed. The engine never have staring problems. The air= time was 3 flights, with the third one ending in a dead stick landing beca= use of engine overheating.

The 12A based single= rotor flows around 10 GPH of gas at 6300RPM WOT.

= I have not seen a carburetor, during the single rotor development, perf= orming comparably.

Hope to be in the air again = soon.

FWIW

Richard= Sohn

 

On 4/3/2017 2:44 PM, William Jepson wrot= e:

= Hi Guys,

Something that= might be of interest is that the ORIGINAL Powersport engines were setup wi= th Airflow performance fuel injection. It required a fuel pump (which could= be mechanically driven) but used a electric fuel pump. Works very well. No= t quite as accurate as the modern electronic injection, but can be run with= out a battery.

Bil= l Jepson

 

On Mon, Apr 3, 2017 = at 7:45 AM, Jeff Whaley <= flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:

Battery, al= ternator, recoil system =E2=80=93 ultimately there is something spinning to= create electricity to drive an electrically-dependent fuel injection syste= m.  Personally, with a high-wing aircraft, I=E2=80=99d like to see a p= urely mechanical fuel injection system fed with gravity fuel flow =E2=80=93= do away with the redundant (electric) fuel pumps, 4 (electric) injectors.&= nbsp; What we have is great as long as it all has a supply of electricity; = having said that I would not be without a battery in the present environmen= t.

Jeff<= /span>

 

 

This message, and the documents attached hereto, is intended o= nly for the addressee and may contain privileged or confidential informatio= n. Any unauthorized disclosure is strictly prohibited. If you have received= this message in error, please notify us immediately so that we may correct= our internal records. Please then delete the original message. Thank you. =

 


-- 
Richard Sohn
8029 County HWY 1087<=
/pre>
DeFuniak Springs, FL 32433=

 
=

--_35D84C84-D843-4B11-8030-F6E327E66811_--
<= /tr>

From:

Charlie England <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>

Subject:

Batteryless fuel in= jection??

Date:

Mon, 3 Apr 2017 08:10:26 -0500

To:<= /p>

Rotary motors in aircr= aft <flyrotary@lancaironl= ine.net>

3D"Message

3D"Undecoded

Just saw this= on a 'small 4stroke engine' (aviation) group:

=  

quote:

Hi, the info from B= &S for the EFI system is a bit sketchy at the moment. It is an open-loo= p system from Kokusan and completely different to the Delphi EFI on the 810= and the big block engines:

 =

Vanguard has also developed a horizontal shaf= t small-block (627 cc) engine, with an initial application in fire and resc= ue equipment. Offered in a 23 gross hp rating, the engine incorporates an o= pen-loop EFI system developed by Japan=E2=80=99s Kokusan Denki Co. Ltd. and= has the ability to be operated with either an electric starting system usi= ng a battery or a recoil starting system. =E2=80=9CThis one is a bit unique= ,=E2=80=9D Leech said. =E2=80=9CIt=E2=80=99s completely different than the = Delphi system we use on the other engines in that it can work with a batter= y or without. Kokusan developed a technology that Delphi did not have.=E2= =80=9D Batteryless EFI itself is not new, as it has been a staple on small = two- and four-stroke engines used on such things as off-road motorcycles an= d snowmobiles. The Kokusan system uses energy generated by the pull of the = recoil starter to power the engine control unit (ECU), fuel pump and inject= ors =E2=80=94 in that order =E2=80=94 to start the engine. The Vanguard sma= ll-block engine with recoil start has been specified by a global manufactur= er of fire equipment for a portable generator set used in fire and rescue a= pplications <= /p>

I bet that will create quite some interest in the flying &n= bsp;apparatus circles. If the EFI is using a MAP sensor or mass flow meter,= the EFI would be fully altitude-compensating to 3,000+ meters (10,000'). U= nfortunately, I haven't been able to source a parts manual yet to check wha= t components are used in the EFI system.
:unquote

 

These are V-twins. Might= be interesting to see if there's a way to alter the 90* timing to the rota= ry's 180 & deliver enough fuel for a rotary using this system & lar= ger injectors...

 <= /p>

Google search for the FI mfgr:

https://www.google.com/search?q=3DKokusan&oq=3DKoku= san&aqs=3Dchrome..69i57&sourceid=3Dchrome&ie=3DUTF-8#q=3DKokusa= n+fuel+injection&*

 <= o:p>

Charlie