X-CGP-ClamAV-Result: CLEAN X-VirusScanner: Niversoft's CGPClamav Helper v1.23.0 (ClamAV engine v0.103.0) From: "David Leonard wdleonard@gmail.com" Received: from mail-oi1-f174.google.com ([209.85.167.174] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.2.14) with ESMTPS id 1014975 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sun, 06 Dec 2020 17:37:33 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.167.174; envelope-from=wdleonard@gmail.com Received: by mail-oi1-f174.google.com with SMTP id t205so13334976oib.12 for ; Sun, 06 Dec 2020 14:37:34 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=IuGKQTwgbqqEtoH/3jboVMyp1eEv95WLgSi5nZ5aISc=; b=l2KDS2Br2ThHX5SwkK1saFAWfTscCYw+8leUcyjwFautus35j2AcYlllHZofAsKc7H wFgTCbRrIyOwARW/czD7YzgoqBiwwdSpv4oXZjh+RFXCr6luFMc7hsheR74DmLKlfn8M K7rVyLu58QYlEHzU8vx87TOWrw2v+KMaFT4aThxODXlwasr5sZ+DTBV1lpzswXmsixxi U34fq3bu/xZICZAXnbQvEAg2F3mU+4ESo7g4C7WzYMq18sFoFkH21Wn2r9m7iPD6IM3z jNfktsFMyjXvbfdJaaSI6woai029jtvK43Gp4uKuCvgwM6jQwFEuJz4RaAb0KmgceyAF RAtg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=IuGKQTwgbqqEtoH/3jboVMyp1eEv95WLgSi5nZ5aISc=; b=TF5VDoFandJPRknO7CodKadgTK4ZlaiuvIU+vyltnCThJvnhQeSYkOBUjNafTFqwZH LfOz97R1fwrJ3gdHkxYSPcw7AMwWaTud6VCtESswu0quemxXHxua2J0hZ8yghD3C9zvh iSl+FERAYZH8Vpe7w2tK9gogWhYzhZ+4lw7wPiHM4p2jeSSwy9j1XpMx1LOVKjUIaRQ+ ppKZLwAgcxlYtM3n85z5y78YTGpZj0dE0FzITRzdNvAw/Ltn+SU2WJ/hE6rhB86uL74h xas+Ux9CnkSpwRD1eik08Tv1QFZLp4inJcymx7OmIIS5RgswCnlT7dqPzlWLiu9XOj6w 3JLg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531A6c77zym6kHUTzkVVxGWvuGhZIvPXTkoFi36/jgwezcAezl15 0tEHWOFugp7EnXlxatdwpfBVpAnljntNo0uie+ixlmN0e80= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxOZuxx5dGJycSqAE2olXxDeYrf7EH/UXqL1IE3iJNERiuEUqtcWUIZOeUp2I/Y2qzCBhyeCLnvUf5lXCboebk= X-Received: by 2002:aca:34d4:: with SMTP id b203mr10241489oia.69.1607294236587; Sun, 06 Dec 2020 14:37:16 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: Date: Sun, 6 Dec 2020 14:37:06 -0800 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: RD1-C damper To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000005794605b5d35ab9" --00000000000005794605b5d35ab9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable My solution was to use an aftermarket flywheel and have it milled down a little so that the damper plate could bolt to it. So I kept the damper because 1) it was the easiest approach, 2) I didn't think it could hurt. Dave Leonard On Sun, Dec 6, 2020 at 2:28 PM Stephen Izett stephen.izett@gmail.com < flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: > Thanks Dave. > > Did you do away with your damper after your flax plate > disintegrated/failed over time, or was this still before Tracy changed hi= s > mind about the need for the "higher frequency=E2=80=9D isolation provided= by the > damper? > > I was trying to think about the forces at work on that thin steel plate > apart from the torque of your boosted 300 hp. > I was wondering about the gyroscopic (is that the right word) force > created by that extra mass bolted to it, travelling at much higher > velocity, and then being asked to change direction with the subsequent > =E2=80=9Cflexing=E2=80=9D forces at play. > Steve Boese=E2=80=99 science/engineering mind or Lynn Hanover=E2=80=99s h= ands dirty > experience appreciated at this point! > > Thanks also to Dave Leonard for what we have learnt from your need for > speed, and Neil Unger=E2=80=99s relentless work on gearboxes. > > So there being evidence of failure outside of aircraft use, I'll look int= o > another stronger starter ring gear. > > BUT more to the point. what experience do we now have of removing the > damper altogether? > I thought this was the important question, because if not required, > appears to save significant: weight, cost, and maintenance. > > Has there been further word from Tracy or anyone else flying the RD2 or > other no-isolator setups? > Tracy=E2=80=99s initial testing appeared promising but thats now some yea= rs back. > > Thanks heaps everyone. Couldn't have got this far without your brains, > pain, cheque book, experience etc. > > Cheers > > Steve Izett > > > > > > > > > > > On 7 Dec 2020, at 12:52 am, David Leonard wdleonard@gmail.com < > flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: > > > > Steve, you are right. The Issue is cracking og the auto-tranny flex > plate. Mine failed entirely. I highly recommend making the change soone= r > rather than later. > > > > Dave Leonard > > > > On Sun, Dec 6, 2020, 12:48 AM Stephen Izett stephen.izett@gmail.com < > flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: > > Hi Charlie > > > > I thought people moved to the race flywheels because the flex plates > were cracking. > > I hadn=E2=80=99t heard of the Engine/Drive/Prop needing a flywheel mass= . > > I found some info on the forum archive but nothing to draw it all > together. > > I=E2=80=99ll have a good look at the flexplate when I pull the drive an= d check > for cracking, but unless I hear otherwise I plan to reuse the flex plate. > > > > Thanks > > > > Steve > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 6 Dec 2020, at 8:58 am, Charlie England ceengland7@gmail.com < > flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: > > > > > > On 12/5/2020 6:35 PM, Stephen Izett stephen.izett@gmail.com wrote: > > >> Hi team > > >> > > >> Having completed phase #1 testing of the Glasair Super IIRG power by > Renesis and RD1-C redrive, I=E2=80=99re going to pull the redrive for its= 25 hourly > initial inspection. > > >> > > >> Tracy deleted the damper assembly from the last rendition of his > design and I=E2=80=99m considering removing ours by creating a new adapte= r plate > from the existing splined > > >> part that is currently riveted to the damper and adding some longer > bolts and spacers. > > >> > > >> Has anyone heard anything further in regard to RD receives with the > damper removed? > > >> Has Tracy given any further updatess? > > >> All I have read was after initial tests some years ago. > > >> > > >> Cheers > > >> > > >> Steve. > > > Best I remember is that you need either an aluminum or steel racing > flywheel, to get more mass on the engine side of the system. IIRC, it's > also limited to low mass (wood, etc) propellers. The ones he sold had a > different input shaft, but I think Dave Leonard modified his RD1-C & to u= se > a steel racing flywheel which was only slightly heavier than the aluminum > version. Search for Dave's posts, if he doesn't chime in. I've been > wondering if Guibo/Rototflex couplers could be a viable alternative to th= e > aluminum plate/rubber discs. Probably would weigh more, and definitely co= st > more. > > > > > > Charlie > > > > > > -- > > > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > > > https://www.avast.com/antivirus > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > > > Archive and UnSub: > http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html > > > > > > -- > > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > > Archive and UnSub: > http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html > > > -- > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > Archive and UnSub: > http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html > --00000000000005794605b5d35ab9 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
My solution was to use an aftermarket flywheel and have it= milled down a little so that the damper plate could bolt to it.=C2=A0 So I= kept the damper because 1) it was the easiest approach, 2) I didn't th= ink it could hurt.

Dave Leonard

On Sun, Dec 6, 2020= at 2:28 PM Stephen Izett stephe= n.izett@gmail.com <fl= yrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
Thanks Dave.

Did you do away with your damper after your flax plate disintegrated/failed= over time, or was this still before Tracy changed his mind about the need = for the "higher frequency=E2=80=9D isolation provided by the damper?
I was trying to think about the forces at work on that thin steel plate apa= rt from the torque of your boosted 300 hp.
I was wondering about the gyroscopic (is that the right word) force created= by that extra mass bolted to it, travelling at much higher velocity, and t= hen being asked to change direction with the subsequent =E2=80=9Cflexing=E2= =80=9D forces at play.
Steve Boese=E2=80=99 science/engineering mind or Lynn Hanover=E2=80=99s han= ds dirty experience appreciated at this point!

Thanks also to Dave Leonard for what we have learnt from your need for spee= d, and Neil Unger=E2=80=99s relentless work on gearboxes.

So there being evidence of failure outside of aircraft use, I'll look i= nto another stronger starter ring gear.

BUT more to the point. what experience do we now have of removing the dampe= r altogether?
I thought this was the important question, because if not required, appears= to save significant: weight, cost, and maintenance.

Has there been further word from Tracy or anyone else flying the RD2 or oth= er no-isolator setups?
Tracy=E2=80=99s initial testing appeared promising but thats now some years= back.

Thanks heaps everyone. Couldn't have got this far without your brains, = pain, cheque book, experience etc.

Cheers

Steve Izett









> On 7 Dec 2020, at 12:52 am, David Leonard wdleonard@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net<= /a>> wrote:
>
> Steve, you are right.=C2=A0 The Issue is cracking og the auto-tranny f= lex plate.=C2=A0 Mine failed entirely.=C2=A0 I highly recommend making the = change sooner rather than later.
>
> Dave Leonard
>
> On Sun, Dec 6, 2020, 12:48 AM Stephen Izett stephen.izett@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancair= online.net> wrote:
> Hi Charlie
>
> I thought people moved to the race flywheels because the flex plates w= ere cracking.
> I hadn=E2=80=99t heard of the Engine/Drive/Prop needing a flywheel mas= s.
> I found some info on the forum archive but nothing to draw it all toge= ther.
> I=E2=80=99ll have a good look at the flexplate when I pull the drive a= nd check for cracking, but unless I hear otherwise I plan to reuse the flex= plate.
>
> Thanks
>
> Steve
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 6 Dec 2020, at 8:58 am, Charlie England ceengland7@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironl= ine.net> wrote:
> >
> > On 12/5/2020 6:35 PM, Stephen Izett stephen.izett@gmail.com wrote:
> >> Hi team
> >>
> >> Having completed phase #1 testing of the Glasair Super IIRG p= ower by Renesis and RD1-C redrive, I=E2=80=99re going to pull the redrive f= or its 25 hourly initial inspection.
> >>
> >> Tracy deleted the damper assembly from the last rendition of = his design and I=E2=80=99m considering removing ours by creating a new adap= ter plate from the existing splined
> >> part that is currently riveted to the damper and adding some = longer bolts and spacers.
> >>
> >> Has anyone heard anything further in regard to RD receives wi= th the damper removed?
> >> Has Tracy given any further updatess?
> >> All I have read was after initial tests some years ago.
> >>
> >> Cheers
> >>
> >> Steve.
> > Best I remember is that you need either an aluminum or steel raci= ng flywheel, to get more mass on the engine side of the system.=C2=A0 IIRC,= it's also limited to low mass (wood, etc) propellers. The ones he sold= had a different input shaft, but I think Dave Leonard modified his RD1-C &= amp; to use a steel racing flywheel which was only slightly heavier than th= e aluminum version. Search for Dave's posts, if he doesn't chime in= . I've been wondering if Guibo/Rototflex couplers could be a viable alt= ernative to the aluminum plate/rubber discs. Probably would weigh more, and= definitely cost more.
> >
> > Charlie
> >
> > --
> > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus softwa= re.
> > https://www.avast.com/antivirus
> >
> >
> > --
> > Homepage:=C2=A0 http://www.flyrotary.com/
> > Archive and UnSub:=C2=A0 =C2=A0h= ttp://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html
>
>
> --
> Homepage:=C2=A0 http://www.flyrotary.com/
> Archive and UnSub:=C2=A0 =C2=A0http:/= /mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html


--
Homepage:=C2=A0 http://www.flyrotary.com/
Archive and UnSub:=C2=A0 =C2=A0http://mail= .lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html
--00000000000005794605b5d35ab9--