X-CGP-ClamAV-Result: CLEAN X-VirusScanner: Niversoft's CGPClamav Helper v1.23.0 (ClamAV engine v0.103.0) From: "Charlie England ceengland7@gmail.com" Received: from mail-io1-f53.google.com ([209.85.166.53] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.2.14) with ESMTPS id 984216 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Fri, 27 Nov 2020 09:29:40 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.166.53; envelope-from=ceengland7@gmail.com Received: by mail-io1-f53.google.com with SMTP id r9so4964715ioo.7 for ; Fri, 27 Nov 2020 06:29:40 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=9mFQ3mWGTuhRKKphgvzM/izIxp99dOdtyCyhaIN0Av4=; b=jwnvm/uYl/ySZ8v6CX+uhijv4w1eUIuIxJZDLWxN4klXCnbNZHhiV1i7XcrN27RbJh YSUhEGI71NLeOzIyTMbySqdQtD4OzJh5gwJKN6ljQx3lRe9FW3qRNaKxDxKMdtA7awSW 0Rdt8hE2Y0+F5LVqZa2QZR9lw3JGm4sA4JKn7EMXnVvs4G40R4ULUNfv17Jj3R/WfddJ 8xPuZl4v2XkyGxuS7iybFD/9Jp0BN20bWLtpfKoJ6xckb/dmlyoS0OhgNo9KrhvCl/CP jIeTz2m2gOFKUUEHe9EkQAQMFDr2+RGq9eyi9W05wnRc2URmhDgry5eq+zQRQf6xKb+6 X02w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=9mFQ3mWGTuhRKKphgvzM/izIxp99dOdtyCyhaIN0Av4=; b=ndpDbBBu7LYPG1ucrQD4SHLXH4VyG1EFVxZagNdjX9LbpBYgEVyxtMulexmFap1uvz RcriEBHxBiEs8XXxrSsIMvXSBdER5CVnJ09z4vI2pVI3CIkeKHA8BJbayYXr31wrI3xO 3ne5qXvQr1RwURXWBIQmBylgavzDnv/dQKhcP+JrvupjuOyyteP2CCJmYOGX+5awPSlP Ov2AwhsQe3LOJVYVVjM04YhHnwVodLcllZxj1dra8MlgXrnkokdhwvQczuCwQUEcTi3H ql4na7eivAqvQvF8wUQ+Ajq+juAzTb+oo28Q5QPsEGjtqgyvm3MJKgk1Mw8QS4HPgJ6q ZFaw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530GJTtEJ5wvglar2d3P3N5MQo/Xuz9TtQ5xGbQcQOtSUHMW2ZpA UWcZr3OyBKDdDFYN0S1h/KurnuTViT1ZxGWksax1lvWNAUI= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwNFzOyrNuE7feARnAYtWDub0byW7sOwV1CBqyicjgve3pQxQ9UM+RVlBBIgWaqGwXSJT/lynLZ6ATMszLc1/M= X-Received: by 2002:a6b:3118:: with SMTP id j24mr6323590ioa.171.1606487363382; Fri, 27 Nov 2020 06:29:23 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2020 08:24:28 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Ross Redrive se ex se To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000a1736f05b5177c16" --000000000000a1736f05b5177c16 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I was *wishing for* a 2.4-1 set. :-) I do have a vague memory of a discussion on the 'other' rotary list about a ~2.4- gearset out of a 4 wheel drive truck transfer case. I can't find the posts, but I did find a couple of web links showing the transfer case exploded parts views. It is apparently a Ford NP 271/273 transfer case. https://www.tbtrans.com/id22.htm https://www.google.com/search?rlz=3D1C1CHBF_enUS843US843&biw=3D1920&bih=3D9= 75&tbm=3Disch&sxsrf=3DACYBGNRAh18RjDO3yokGyLcClJ6Fz5QnKA%3A1572486611161&sa= =3D1&ei=3D0z26XfC_CYrI5gKb-7q4Cw&q=3DProcess+273+transfer+Case+exploded+vie= w&oq=3DProcess+273+transfer+Case+exploded+view&gs_l=3Dimg.3...207212.213262= ..213795...0.0..0.0.0.......0....1..gws-wiz-img.0dkanelMIPQ&ved=3D0ahUKEwiw= 9fyOscXlAhUKpFkKHZu9DrcQ4dUDCAc&uact=3D5 I don't think the discussion ever mentioned whether the planetary set would reverse or maintain input shaft direction. The gears would almost certainly handle a rotary's torque, but I remember that at the time, I wondered about whether the gears and (especially) the needle bearings in the gearset would handle the 6k-8k rpm of the rotary. I couldn't determine from the drawings whether the planetary was downstream of an already-reduced rpm driveshaft. Maybe you can design one for us. :-) Charlie Virus-free. www.avast.com <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> On Thu, Nov 26, 2020 at 11:59 PM Stephen Izett stephen.izett@gmail.com < flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: > Thanks Charlie. > So are there any other ratio=E2=80=99s in the ford sets that can fit our = reprove > housings? > > Steve > > > On 27 Nov 2020, at 9:08 am, Charlie England ceengland7@gmail.com < > flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: > > > > I'd agree with you; if you limit the rotary to a 'sane' rpm for aviatio= n > use (say, 7000), and use a prop that's typically used on smaller 2 place > homebuilts with Lycs (meaning 2700 rpm at the prop for 75% power at > altitude), then somewhere around 2.6-1 makes sense. On the RVs, even the > 180 & 200 HP Lycs use constant speed props that are 74" dia. & turn 2700 > rpm. > > > https://shop.vansaircraft.com/cgi-bin/shop.cgi?ident=3D1606438205-166-687= &browse=3Dprops&product=3Dcsprop-hartzell > > Only reason to turn under 2700 in cruise is if you're highly motivated > (self or legislated) to keep noise to a minimum. > > > > Another motivator to keep rpms up is that a lot of prop carvers are in > uncharted territory when you ask for a 2200 rpm prop. (Right, Sam H. ?) ;= -) > > > > When I ran numbers treating the Renesis as a 180 HP engine (~6000 rpm, > supposedly the minimum bearing load rpm) and swinging the big 76" dia pro= p, > I was wishing for a 2.4-1 ratio (~2500 prop rpm). > > > > Charlie > > > > On 11/26/2020 5:09 PM, Stephen Izett stephen.izett@gmail.com wrote: > >> Why is that? > >> Tracy made the comment that even the 2.85 which I have is only really > useful for props >than 74=E2=80=9D > >> Which I understood to be about the tip speed being to low and > inefficient with smaller diameter. > >> I dont want to spin my engine more than 7500 rpm. > >> > >> What am I missing? > >> > >> Steve > >> > >> > >>> On 27 Nov 2020, at 7:03 am, Ernest Christley echristley@att.net < > flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: > >>> > >>> At 70 inches, you would want to go the other way. The C4 gearset was > 3.17, but the problem was the weak planetary gear carrier. But, I just > posted a link with a 6 planet carrier. > >>> > >>> On Thursday, November 26, 2020, 5:56:14 PM EST, Stephen Izett > stephen.izett@gmail.com wrote: > >>> > >>> > >>> On that note can I ask a gearbox question. > >>> I=E2=80=99ve always understood we only really had the choice of 2.17 = and 2.85 > :1 gear ratio options if using the Ford planetary gears. > >>> > >>> Looking at our Glasair and I imagine some other aircraft with prop > diameters of around 70 inches we would prefer a ration around 2.6:1 > >>> giving us I think a better prop rpm and tip speed. > >>> > >>> Are there other options? > >>> > >>> Steve Izett > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>> On 27 Nov 2020, at 6:32 am, Ernest Christley echristley@att.net < > flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: > >>>> > >>>> Is that the 4 planet, C4 gear set? If so, I've been made to > understand that there aluminum body gets wallowed out by the planet gear'= s > shaft. I recently found that there is a performance shop selling a > replacement unit with six planets. I know nothing about them other than > that. > >>>> > >>>> > https://speedmaster79.com/Ford-C4-Transmission-Performance-6-Pinion-Plane= tary-Gear-Set > >>>> > >>>> On Thursday, November 26, 2020, 3:16:01 PM EST, Le Roux Breytenbach > breytenbachleroux@gmail.com wrote: > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Terry : Thanks Terry for the Ross Redrive the parcel arrived on > Monday 23 Nov . > >>>> Neil if you want some dimensions on the hollow propellor shaft your > welcome. > >>>> Regards > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Sent from my iPhone > >>>> Le Roux Breytenbach-- > >>>> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > >>>> Archive and UnSub: > http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html > >>> > >>> -- > >>> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > >>> Archive and UnSub: > http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html > >> > >> -- > >> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > >> Archive and UnSub: > http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html > > > > > > -- > > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > > https://www.avast.com/antivirus > > > > > > -- > > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > > Archive and UnSub: > http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html > > > -- > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > Archive and UnSub: > http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html > Virus-free. www.avast.com <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> --000000000000a1736f05b5177c16 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I w= as *wishing for* a 2.4-1 set. :-)

I do have a vague memory of a discussion on the 'other' = rotary list about a ~2.4- gearset out of a 4 wheel drive truck transfer cas= e. I can't find the posts, but I did find a couple of web links showing= the transfer case exploded parts views. It is apparently a Ford NP 271/273= transfer case.
https://www.tbtrans.com/id22.= htm
https://www.google.com/search?rlz=3D1C1CHBF_enUS843US843= &biw=3D1920&bih=3D975&tbm=3Disch&sxsrf=3DACYBGNRAh18RjDO3yo= kGyLcClJ6Fz5QnKA%3A1572486611161&sa=3D1&ei=3D0z26XfC_CYrI5gKb-7q4Cw= &q=3DProcess+273+transfer+Case+exploded+view&oq=3DProcess+273+trans= fer+Case+exploded+view&gs_l=3Dimg.3...207212.213262..213795...0.0..0.0.= 0.......0....1..gws-wiz-img.0dkanelMIPQ&ved=3D0ahUKEwiw9fyOscXlAhUKpFkK= HZu9DrcQ4dUDCAc&uact=3D5

I don't think the discussion ever mentioned whether the pla= netary set would reverse or maintain input shaft direction. The=C2=A0gears = would almost certainly handle a rotary's torque, but I remember that at= the time, I wondered about whether the gears and (especially) the needle b= earings in the gearset would handle the 6k-8k rpm of the rotary. I couldn&#= 39;t determine from the drawings whether the planetary was downstream of an= already-reduced rpm driveshaft.

Maybe you can design one for us. :-)

Charlie

3D"" Virus-free. www.avast.com

On Thu, Nov 26, 2020 at 11:59 PM Stephen Izett stephen.izett@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
Thanks Charlie. So are there any other ratio=E2=80=99s in the ford sets that can fit our re= prove housings?

Steve

> On 27 Nov 2020, at 9:08 am, Charlie England ceengland7@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.= net> wrote:
>
> I'd agree with you; if you limit the rotary to a 'sane' rp= m for aviation use (say, 7000), and use a prop that's typically used on= smaller 2 place homebuilts with Lycs (meaning 2700 rpm at the prop for 75%= power at altitude), then somewhere around 2.6-1 makes sense. On the RVs, e= ven the 180 & 200 HP Lycs use constant speed props that are 74" di= a. & turn 2700 rpm.
> https://shop.vansaircraft.com/cgi-bin/shop.cgi?i= dent=3D1606438205-166-687&browse=3Dprops&product=3Dcsprop-hartzell<= /a>
> Only reason to turn under 2700 in cruise is if you're highly motiv= ated (self or legislated) to keep noise to a minimum.
>
> Another motivator to keep rpms up is that a lot of prop carvers are in= uncharted territory when you ask for a 2200 rpm prop. (Right, Sam H. ?) ;-= )
>
> When I ran numbers treating the Renesis as a 180 HP engine (~6000 rpm,= supposedly the minimum bearing load rpm) and swinging the big 76" dia= prop, I was wishing for a 2.4-1 ratio (~2500 prop rpm).
>
> Charlie
>
> On 11/26/2020 5:09 PM, Stephen Izett stephen.izett@gmail.com wrote:
>> Why is that?
>> Tracy made the comment that even the 2.85 which I have is only rea= lly useful for props >than 74=E2=80=9D
>> Which I understood to be about the tip speed being to low and inef= ficient with=C2=A0 smaller diameter.
>> I dont want to spin my engine more than 7500 rpm.
>>
>> What am I missing?
>>
>> Steve
>>
>>
>>> On 27 Nov 2020, at 7:03 am, Ernest Christley echristley@att.net <flyrotary@lancair= online.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> At 70 inches, you would want to go the other way.=C2=A0 The C4= gearset was 3.17, but the problem was the weak planetary gear carrier.=C2= =A0 But, I just posted a link with a 6 planet carrier.
>>>
>>> On Thursday, November 26, 2020, 5:56:14 PM EST, Stephen Izett = stephen.izett@= gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> On that note can I ask a gearbox question.
>>> I=E2=80=99ve always understood we only really had the choice o= f 2.17 and 2.85 :1 gear ratio options if using the Ford planetary gears. >>>
>>> Looking at our Glasair and I imagine some other aircraft with = prop diameters of around 70 inches we would prefer a ration around 2.6:1 >>> giving us I think a better prop rpm and tip speed.
>>>
>>> Are there other options?
>>>
>>> Steve Izett
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> On 27 Nov 2020, at 6:32 am, Ernest Christley echristley@att.net <flyrotary@lanca= ironline.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Is that the 4 planet, C4 gear set?=C2=A0 If so, I've b= een made to understand that there aluminum body gets wallowed out by the pl= anet gear's shaft.=C2=A0 I recently found that there is a performance s= hop selling a replacement unit with six planets.=C2=A0 I know nothing about= them other than that.
>>>>
>>>> https://speedmaster79.com/Ford-C4-Transmission-Performance-6-Pinion-Plan= etary-Gear-Set
>>>>
>>>> On Thursday, November 26, 2020, 3:16:01 PM EST, Le Roux Br= eytenbach = breytenbachleroux@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Terry : Thanks Terry for the Ross Redrive the parcel arriv= ed on Monday 23 Nov .
>>>> Neil if you want some dimensions on the hollow propellor s= haft your welcome.
>>>> Regards
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>> Le Roux Breytenbach--
>>>> Homepage:=C2=A0 http://www.flyrotary.com/
>>>> Archive and UnSub:=C2=A0 = http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html
>>>
>>> --
>>> Homepage:=C2=A0 http://www.flyrotary.com/
>>> Archive and UnSub:=C2=A0 http= ://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html
>>
>> --
>> Homepage:=C2=A0 http://www.flyrotary.com/
>> Archive and UnSub:=C2=A0 =C2=A0ht= tp://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html
>
>
> --
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>
>
> --
> Homepage:=C2=A0 http://www.flyrotary.com/
> Archive and UnSub:=C2=A0 =C2=A0http:/= /mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html


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