X-Junk-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=2.3 cv=EuKsUhUA c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=ZvIS0BWM2+uCROhvqC5K8Q==:117 a=xqWC_Br6kY4A:10 a=x7bEGLp0ZPQA:10 a=UnQSPezLcewA:10 a=y4yBn9ojGxQA:10 a=vQBirrQHAAAA:8 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=5kgCHx-JAAAA:8 a=pGLkceISAAAA:8 a=yMhMjlubAAAA:8 a=3oc9M9_CAAAA:8 a=kNniuv3kBPZQIP-Zq3oA:9 a=iftYQ30znyrp8rJZ:21 a=G1tHPAgbJFNrUtTF:21 a=pILNOxqGKmIA:10 a=Tr8nuKu5vpAA:10 a=bdajjTY5FIt9gkmF:21 a=ddP0leMk__SLvSLt:21 a=UY2pxIUNkGv7VFON:21 a=frz4AuCg-hUA:10 a=_W_S_7VecoQA:10 a=xHaYSeaRmFCljTX2gecA:9 a=HXjIzolwW10A:10 a=T6a71-JsGAwA:10 a=lDfqS9O3RnrHf9UoMW4S:22 a=Urk15JJjZg1Xo0ryW_k8:22 a=r8ZRCeaX8sBb4OpKaTiC:22 From: "Les C lesphoto@hotmail.com" Received: from [40.92.19.103] (HELO NAM11-DM6-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.2.14) with ESMTPS id 695263 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Fri, 28 Aug 2020 15:29:19 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=40.92.19.103; envelope-from=lesphoto@hotmail.com ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=dGmQNwNQUxGn+ljjrPcLcYGHYBKEKNBMD1BPf/I2DpRvYIC7CRcnzARI5zZZGpEeQL4hgQeXX02E9/rdoieC6upPJalliT16ORMWensFxjqddkhrh9U7p6cRepYfg7oMBCQdJNfisa/eRWaYihF8LwdXYQ4ePxK0Z22hMYVlVOfyDmLePXr8koxc2jLrRg30I2lejVQOV6B+o5X63dHg4gzc1HRXzh6wIxms4iMaoaPxdicyk7nZQegDZp4ah+oPKa43gCs/m5r2pu/8VoZlcwn5y32Xt1skRVBiBnCVwekPfBkwqJh2o/ngqhTA7vugx9/8J42+IbpcGqWVeCtSIw== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=FqVWXlPXAHwP5vPwBnjqLdltf7/X2UG17BJVU9roP+8=; b=hZoB8QwLQwa+VmqavkcIUR9Xom7GkAGEJd30HS0p6V177rfXweQZ1d0YBszQ5YApojZ4KqDOXnTpad5b20T792eFSeSUeACE7hLMgiH9Rqjc6RfDUJ6lXvtzXk90q+LJdvjNyW1nHxLVm73CYC7u8L7GouLMrOEHbR5uK1dkjSiK6iLolSR4JO8f9WKtXr+ZI8d1teDjFKGhAqPwEpBRNJgUy3tu5m1I8uWmOcAhF+s1I+azZgvFpl411ea3PAwpHZ+s/MqtsTtDnZmREjnSgwDeZR2vj3vg+865kdMJz3Y8bzjafRU3jdaX7ckoJdsG/2dvJ8CKZgBoDcn0lDR9ZQ== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=none; dmarc=none; dkim=none; arc=none DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=hotmail.com; s=selector1; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=FqVWXlPXAHwP5vPwBnjqLdltf7/X2UG17BJVU9roP+8=; b=WuaZZgwW1dmhx/4AMTYFEhKzoudv2BvMMJHs+7pzBLHkhhPQE8+ugUgGFQ7b6Uf9gwmfxyNkFR+y/Og7FEUJp9c5aJo3wqMePvrQ/JvT4UOT8x14koZGi0yIGeKCEVRkA3mugrayxKEyCCiU/p2xQKkWAhJ/D4AGlZL7NX2iU1KTB+/yT99a0a6KMQaC4D/YbN15mAERFaLTHesAuwcP26ZAcJSwn38CprDnaFgpB0afEY8cQIF4DP42+wK9cwCUkBzqsj/e1j/oHl4CoqZvYdURLYJbI+51cM5K2m9ARWOdv7mUtbtUsnaZEJAycJZ5eeDokvHl/DjnFyNWjcQP9w== Received: from BN8NAM11FT021.eop-nam11.prod.protection.outlook.com (2a01:111:e400:fc4b::52) by BN8NAM11HT079.eop-nam11.prod.protection.outlook.com (2a01:111:e400:fc4b::115) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.3326.21; Fri, 28 Aug 2020 19:29:01 +0000 Received: from BN8PR19MB2435.namprd19.prod.outlook.com (2a01:111:e400:fc4b::48) by BN8NAM11FT021.mail.protection.outlook.com (2a01:111:e400:fc4b::370) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.3326.19 via Frontend Transport; Fri, 28 Aug 2020 19:29:01 +0000 Received: from BN8PR19MB2435.namprd19.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::c40f:cf24:7651:a753]) by BN8PR19MB2435.namprd19.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::c40f:cf24:7651:a753%3]) with mapi id 15.20.3305.032; Fri, 28 Aug 2020 19:29:01 +0000 To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Turbos......... Thread-Topic: [FlyRotary] Re: Turbos......... Thread-Index: AQHWfWEYKs3jFndXlE2B/8RUQaKVT6lN52QS Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2020 19:29:01 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-incomingtopheadermarker: OriginalChecksum:CD4CC84B427761B17ADFFB13E5A5FD1877FCF009D2F40E0291F91EA1CB285F29;UpperCasedChecksum:3DD932AD496D96DEB129F9E5E6F6BD92057B106E7F393F9B7349947D1E692357;SizeAsReceived:6750;Count:44 x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-tmn: [2FKLR8ZYKU4HB9RMXP6zA+wBIdTZIVVK] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-incomingheadercount: 44 x-eopattributedmessage: 0 x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 9bb84d4c-68d5-47fd-85cd-08d84b889e6f x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: BN8NAM11HT079: x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: P/35oRhOsxQ2gKD9pq9w+Hc8YsP+k8Z6+cMQ22IglCF/YVhh9EgaNW3LuO5Xm3JOcOcYgbKV8/mU8IfqFRGynWeYyGOECFeG7HP4GvVRPIooBeCSVplhjIsiBAkVn6hGEvzzdClZbZ1e9WYReKXYkNOJDPc8z15G9wpJMh3PiW4XtrRx/M1bguccdq/9bzWm3suxtlCKr570Fso9Te+V87ce1Kpwr3a66r/NoQg559IbyiAqqaL5DRBv2lI2H7JY x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata: NDhhnoblX37W7yNZRvJNXh1Jx6KnrHiG7tdNiANiScLLenpvEpAmtqI1P85pCQRKfD6W9OONq3Q5/OzDOOyZLJ2BUu0py8q20BfL1NXGPTuZJ1CMqB9bgE0HyY232BU9jgdaJcoc2m9Tbb224H5wOw== x-ms-exchange-transport-forked: True Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="_004_BN8PR19MB2435CA4DDCE700CA11E3E6D2D9520BN8PR19MB2435namp_"; type="multipart/alternative" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: hotmail.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Anonymous X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: BN8NAM11FT021.eop-nam11.prod.protection.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-RMS-PersistedConsumerOrg: 00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 9bb84d4c-68d5-47fd-85cd-08d84b889e6f X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-rms-persistedconsumerorg: 00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 28 Aug 2020 19:29:01.8159 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Internet X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 84df9e7f-e9f6-40af-b435-aaaaaaaaaaaa X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BN8NAM11HT079 --_004_BN8PR19MB2435CA4DDCE700CA11E3E6D2D9520BN8PR19MB2435namp_ Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_BN8PR19MB2435CA4DDCE700CA11E3E6D2D9520BN8PR19MB2435namp_" --_000_BN8PR19MB2435CA4DDCE700CA11E3E6D2D9520BN8PR19MB2435namp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I'm planning to fly multiple cross country flights at or around 10,000' and= want to keep up my speed. Even the 20b, as simple as it is, will lose HP = at that altitude. I can always dial it back for economy, but it's nice to = have the giddy up too! Les Criscillo Nurse, Pilot, Brewmaster, Maker https://eaabuilderslog.org/?blproject&proj=3D7XSZ512C2 ________________________________ From: Rotary motors in aircraft on behalf of = Thomas Mann tmann@n200lz.com Sent: Friday, August 28, 2020 1:37 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Turbos......... I considered a 13B with a turbo and compared that (Weight & HP) to a NA 20B= . Pound for pound the was comparable for take-off and landing. .... but what I kept coming back to was 'Why did you select the Rotary in t= he first place?" The answer to that centered around the practically bullet proof simplicity = of the design. Why would you go to a power plant that is truly simple in design only to co= mplicate it with a Turbo? That's my logic path for selecting the 20B vs. a 13B-Turbo Either power plant will kick butt in a Long-EZ. T Mann ________________________________ From: "James Whitehurst flyboyusvi@gmail.com" Sent: Friday, August 28, 2020 11:47 AM To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Turbos......... ??? Above 10,000 ft? I couldn=92t figure out how=85 so I just received my B= org Warner EFR9280 Turbos with water and oil cooled ctr aluminum housing. I= know its more complex but I figure I=92ll have the HP to 18,000=92. Comm= ents enjoyed? James whitehurst Sent from Mail for Window= s 10 From: lehanover lehanover@aol.com Sent: Friday, August 28, 2020 9:47 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Turbos......... As you can see on this dyno sheet much power is available where most folks = like to run aircraft Rotaries. The ports you see in that picture are designed to operate best at 9,400 RPM= , at 250HP, however that is a 12-A engine. 2292 CCs vice 2900 CCs for a 13-B, so more power from a 13-B. So ports desi= gned for best power at say 5,500 RPM would have a shorter top (Closing Poin= t) and a smaller bridge opening. I do not let any of the side seal ends to = cross over the port so side seal damage is not a factor. So very nearly sto= ck service life minus the wear you would expect from spending hours of oper= ation at full throttle. With synthetic 2 cycle oil in the fuel and in the s= ump I suspect (but do not know) about 500 to 1,000 hours. A hot compression= check or a hot leakdown test will tell the tail.........LEH In a message dated 8/28/2020 7:31:58 AM Eastern Standard Time, flyrotary@la= ncaironline.net writes: One word....Turbo normalizing. Ok that's two words, but that's my plan. In your opinion, how reliable is a bridge port engine? At what RPM do you s= ee the benefits? Les Criscillo Pilot, Brewmaster, Maker From: Rotary motors in aircraft on behalf of = lehanover lehanover@aol.com Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2020 9:34:07 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Turbos......... We don't need no stinking turbos.....when we can have 250HP bridge ports...= ... Lynn E. Hanover --_000_BN8PR19MB2435CA4DDCE700CA11E3E6D2D9520BN8PR19MB2435namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I'm planning to fly multiple cross country flights at or around 10,000' and= want to keep up my speed.  Even the 20b, as simple as it is, will los= e HP at that altitude.  I can always dial it back for economy, but it'= s nice to have the giddy up too!


Les Criscillo
Nurse, Pilot, Brewmaster, Maker

From: Rotary motors in airc= raft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> on behalf of Thomas Mann tmann@n20= 0lz.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Friday, August 28, 2020 1:37 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Turbos.........
 
I considered a 13B with a turbo and compared that (Weight & HP) to= a NA 20B. 
Pound for pound the was comparable for take-off and landing.
 
.... but what I kept coming back to was 'Why did you select the Rotary= in the first place?"
The answer to that centered around the practically bullet proof simpli= city of the design.
Why would you go to a power plant that is truly simple in design only = to complicate it with a Turbo?
 
That's my logic path for selecting the 20B vs. a 13B-Turbo
Either power plant will kick butt in a Long-EZ.
 
T Mann
 
 
 
From: "James Whitehurst flyboyusvi@gmail.com" <flyrotary@= lancaironline.net>
Sent: Friday, August 28, 2020 11:47 AM
To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" <flyrotary@lancaironlin= e.net>
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Turbos.........
 

??? Above 10,000 ft? I couldn=92t figure out how=85 so I just received my B= org Warner EFR9280 Turbos with water and oil cooled ctr aluminum housing. I= know its more complex but I figure I=92ll have the HP to 18,000=92.  =  Comments enjoyed?   James whitehurst

 

Sent from Mail= for Windows 10

 

From: lehanover lehan= over@aol.com
Sent: Friday, August 28, 2020 9:47 AM
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Turbos.........

 

As you can see on this dyno sheet much power is available wher= e most folks like to run aircraft Rotaries.

 

The ports you see in that picture are designed to operate best= at 9,400 RPM, at 250HP, however that is a 12-A engine.

2292 CCs vice 2900 CCs for a 13-B, so more power from a 13-B. = So ports designed for best power at say 5,500 RPM would have a shorter top = (Closing Point) and a smaller bridge opening. I do not let any of the side seal ends to cross over the port so side seal= damage is not a factor. So very nearly stock service life minus the wear y= ou would expect from spending hours of operation at full throttle. With syn= thetic 2 cycle oil in the fuel and in the sump I suspect (but do not know) about 500 to 1,000 hours. A hot co= mpression check or a hot

leakdown test will tell the tail.........LEH 

 

In a message dated 8/28/2020 7:31:58 AM Eastern Standard Time, flyrotary@la= ncaironline.net writes:

 

One w= ord....Turbo normalizing. Ok that's two words, but that's my plan.

 = ;

In yo= ur opinion, how reliable is a bridge port engine? At what RPM do you see th= e benefits?

Les C= riscillo

Pilot= , Brewmaster, Maker

3D""

We don't need no stinking turbos.....when we can have 250HP = bridge ports......

 

Lynn E. Hanover

 

--_000_BN8PR19MB2435CA4DDCE700CA11E3E6D2D9520BN8PR19MB2435namp_-- --_004_BN8PR19MB2435CA4DDCE700CA11E3E6D2D9520BN8PR19MB2435namp_ Content-Type: image/png; name="221F435F53E049A19D53606B9AB3106F.png" Content-Description: 221F435F53E049A19D53606B9AB3106F.png Content-Disposition: inline; filename="221F435F53E049A19D53606B9AB3106F.png"; size=166; creation-date="Fri, 28 Aug 2020 17:31:43 GMT"; modification-date="Fri, 28 Aug 2020 17:31:43 GMT" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAAhsAAAAFCAYAAADsZC5/AAAAAXNSR0IArs4c6QAAAARnQU1BAACx jwv8YQUAAAAJcEhZcwAADsMAAA7DAcdvqGQAAAA7SURBVGhD7dYxEQAwCAAx/JuqgipADN26sMKW v4uHj3OzAAC2mA0AYJXZAABW/dkISZKkwdpsAADMy3phFq5FQ27V4wAAAABJRU5ErkJggg== --_004_BN8PR19MB2435CA4DDCE700CA11E3E6D2D9520BN8PR19MB2435namp_--