X-Junk-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=2.3 cv=PbaBeRpd c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=dI2QwpXbObxnQOq0HjuwWw==:117 a=x7bEGLp0ZPQA:10 a=oSMvVwY2MYMA:10 a=y4yBn9ojGxQA:10 a=pGLkceISAAAA:8 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=RG6hcgD4AAAA:8 a=fR6g6WPwAAAA:8 a=o3ob2-P0I4YFAsX2gIMA:9 a=YLv7E-KN65Ll7lG3:21 a=ti0w7sRtavifrHQC:21 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=jv4Sp-fghkc-_MjlZBQA:9 a=cGmzEU8JJVzOloo-:21 a=kt4zeKnlpYVnacbD:21 a=qoAsy8uFKDH8JYHX:21 a=Urk15JJjZg1Xo0ryW_k8:22 a=N6I4LDFSjv0JWTRmzZqO:22 a=pVye9tYEF4-vSOQs7cMh:22 From: "David Leonard wdleonard@gmail.com" Received: from mail-ot1-f50.google.com ([209.85.210.50] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.2.14) with ESMTPS id 611555 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Thu, 06 Aug 2020 13:39:53 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.210.50; envelope-from=wdleonard@gmail.com Received: by mail-ot1-f50.google.com with SMTP id k12so19992058otr.1 for ; Thu, 06 Aug 2020 10:39:54 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=QB14EdpXFQ9NwH88yrCpbVuJp7j956lOJlJwmkwB3mg=; b=BrJh/dJ6ju/ROnV1WFUKOZsQ68KukT6pouY4oL/Fwpe9WQ9P0TiOMh71JrZYJcsMUO KAE5IoLANUOVjW4bdqNfXB2yrOsC1YgCpSWzsGibhTJFDSHkI7coLRUtjE3SJrNjC+uc 9GpQG++YNJdZf8x2h+rwm4grS9TgaBuMvTxrXNDQ+fUbZIg6OUgvm8155xf2Ynvh8bvp 08XxM9ASrftU2h6y/W7nHE/bthqMmQIUGSG1+xON4K+SYxOyYlc3oZflPf3+/kQW5nZO AXYDL7qxUYe2QHvpSo3XzivzV6sHl8LVaFdCBXfj6xEn9ZE5cFLdUj+11NPQ+dFNzvv/ FaGA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=QB14EdpXFQ9NwH88yrCpbVuJp7j956lOJlJwmkwB3mg=; b=s2rS0j1Q1stu0S5b+RJwGaH8F4wAi7R4Mmlif8K78eoG/c5+XBokGKF0YG2YL6scYZ Qee24Z9broBECC02Yrf8p2yHbxXTCYRRAAEOaAi8t2OsXD+OtRRulkuXSzsgdZrCkO4J SXN+A1Qepym0gDjkM9MhahOLeok5vwY35lLONMwyJAKI7iUxj6pQv7kDBoIQPPX5ISbs XOks2KSvMAHp0a97TV0l0doUw4jrYcsjFvqAx70KOkbNkQ6lXmR4RwwmBGBzBCsQiC7e HywlaLa1/GHZCOpVAP7/CvhWXP7yOhdZd/X4Qpk3LcL9KQVL607iukVtbyfmZMJmxAGE mZLQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5309ODv+sIQAsXM93N1mbPf14smCKi1S5049BtikCOAuaGLXER0b Xn+qtM43it5xywbB/xWCq/N1I/jvgFaWKeOfTHrqCw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwjguKOrSZ3uakUtUYBL8SZMLd7LktK2GpZ8CeJXiMeu6JLYJADj5vUnsHn/E1mT3gUdI99OkQkLrKTQWepk5Y= X-Received: by 2002:a9d:128c:: with SMTP id g12mr8037392otg.242.1596735576026; Thu, 06 Aug 2020 10:39:36 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2020 10:39:23 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Turbos for 13b's in aircraft To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000cf3ded05ac38f856" --000000000000cf3ded05ac38f856 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Todd, I dont think you will miss the AMU. It is easy enough to change out the actuator. I have 2 turbos from BNR. In one I removed the wastegate flapper all together and just left the hole wide open. That gives me about 42" MAP at sea level and protects me from my lead fist. Its perfect for my everyday flying. The other one uses the stock actuator and will give me 45" at 10k density altitude. I call it my race turbo. Nothing like raging around at Vne. Nothing like the gas bill either. It will be easy enough to use your TurboSmart. Bummer they dont do the Stage 4 anymore. Seemed like a lot of work for them to do for 0.1amu. Hopefull they still port the wastegate a little. We definitely have to get together for a hockey game sometime. Dave Leonard On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 9:23 PM Todd Bartrim bartrim@gmail.com < flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: > I ended up ordering the stage 3 turbo from BNR as they no longer machine > the exhaust housing to make a stage 4. I paid the $100 core charge to sav= e > on shipping down there. I'd rather give it to him than FedEx. So this mea= ns > I get to keep my old turbo so maybe in the future I'll see what I can do > about sourcing the parts to do my own upgrade. Pretty soon I'll have enou= gh > spare parts to build another airplane. > As they say "ignorance is bliss", and I was content to think I was not > asking much of my turbo and so I didn't have to worry about it, but again > this list has proven its value as random info not even directed at me has > made me aware that at any given time my poor little turbo could give up t= he > ghost and leave me looking for a place to put down where there are none. > I asked him to put a 7psi spring in the actuator, as the TurboSmart > controller will allow me to achieve more at the touch of a button. But I > may just replace it with my own actuator anyways. I'll decide when I > receive it. > Now I'm going to rethink my intercooler installation. I had recently > removed it as I didn't feel it was a very effective installation due to > space constraints and didn't think it was really doing much for me. I now > think it was doing more than I thought, but I now have an opportunity wit= h > some space freed up to do a better install. > Last year I bought a little bitty tiny lithium battery to replace the > big old lead acid battery. As it has some smarts on it, the first thing i= t > told me was that it didn't like being over on the hot side of the engine, > behind the turbo. So since it is so small and light, it was an easy thing > to move over to the other side of the engine, right beside my primary > alternator. So I removed the Vans battery mount and now have quite a bit = of > free space in which to mount the intercooler, however it will probably > require some modification. This is all yet to be determined.... > > Todd Bartrim > > > On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 1:17 AM Todd Bartrim bartrim@gmail.com < > flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: > >> Hi Dave; >> Another question for you about your wastegate. Are you using the >> wastegate that he provided? And what pressure is the spring? >> I told him I would rather use my own wastegate, but he didn't seem to >> know what I was talking about when I told him it was a piston type rathe= r >> than a diaphragm and kept insisting that I'd want to use his with a 14ps= i >> spring. >> I also want the lowest possible spring pressure as I have a TurboSmart >> electronic boost controller which can give higher pre-programed pressure= s >> at the touch of a button, by venting the boost pressure signal to the >> actuator. But it can't give any pressure lower than what the spring >> pressure is. >> One of my considerations for lower max boost pressure is that my engin= e >> was not originally turbocharged so I have the high compression 9.4:1 rot= ors. >> Fot that reason I've always been conservative and tried to limit my >> boost to 6psi, which is my current spring pressure. >> When my original diaphragm actuator burst, I saw about 16 psi without >> detonation, and it was fun, but not something I want to subject the engi= ne >> to regularly. >> >> Thanks, Todd >> >> >> >> On Tue., Aug. 4, 2020, 23:12 Todd Bartrim bartrim@gmail.com, < >> flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: >> >>> Hi Dave; >>> I talked with BNR today and I'm not sure he really got what I was >>> looking for as he started by saying that a "stage 3" is what I should h= ave >>> then said probably a "stage 1" would be good for me. >>> But other than that I did like what he has to offer. However I'm >>> thinking that even though I don't feel that I have the demands that you= do, >>> if I'm going to go this far, I'm going all the way and might as well go= for >>> the "stage 4". >>> The "stage 4" involves machining the exhaust housing to make room fo= r >>> a larger turbine wheel while the others don't. So I wonder if I could >>> source those other items and do this myself. But as I don't even know >>> enough about my starting point it's not very realistic to find the fini= sh >>> line without a significant investment in time. So for the low price of >>> $1amu, I can have more than what I need. I'm also convinced that paying= the >>> $0.1amu core charge is good value when you have to deal with internatio= nal >>> shipping. >>> So I guess I just need someone to give me a little shove to push me ove= r >>> the edge and call him back with my visa#. >>> If he had an "add to cart" button on his website I think we'd be past >>> this point after a few beers watching playoff hockey. >>> >>> Todd >>> (The only thing stranger than watching hockey in August, is that >>> there is less fans than my beer league games) >>> >>> >>> >>> On Tue., Aug. 4, 2020, 17:03 12348ung@gmail.com, < >>> flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: >>> >>>> Todd, >>>> >>>> Thanks for that as was exactly what I was thinking. >>>> Have tried many workshops in OZ and either ignorant or don=E2=80=99t w= ant the job. >>>> Freight listed to the US and back can be $300 each way. Makes the $10= 0 >>>> cheap. Will contact them, and see what eventuates as way down the pat= h of >>>> fitting the stock turbo, really do not want to start again. Done that= too >>>> many times before. >>>> >>>> Thanks, Neil. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> *From:* Rotary motors in aircraft >>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 5, 2020 9:56 AM >>>> *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft >>>> *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: Turbos for 13b's in aircraft >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Hi Neil; >>>> >>>> I talked to BNR today on the phone about my needs and wants. He said >>>> it was about a 3 week turnaround time on the turbo, so I said maybe la= ter >>>> this fall. So he suggested that for a $100 dollar core charge, he coul= d >>>> just get one there and modify it for me and I can keep this one. That'= s >>>> kinda a no-brainer, because it would cost me that much to ship mine do= wn to >>>> him. Then I'm only paying shipping one way. >>>> >>>> So for you that would make even more sense. >>>> >>>> Todd Bartrim >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Tue, Aug 4, 2020 at 3:41 PM 12348ung@gmail.com < >>>> flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: >>>> >>>> Dave and all, >>>> >>>> Finally great advice that I cannot get >>>> anywhere else as mention =E2=80=9CAircraft=E2=80=9D and the phone line= goes dead. The oil >>>> cut off is great as well for I have personal experience with a turbo >>>> failure in a truck =E2=80=93 you would not believe the amount of oil t= hat can fit >>>> into an exhaust! That took more time to clean than replacing the turb= o-- >>>> all 5 gallons of it. >>>> >>>> Will see what I can source here in OZ as to a turbo , as the freigh= t >>>> both ways to the US is murderous. Happy with the mod cost which will= be >>>> $1300 Oz dollars. Still a cheap turbo. Freight I am guessing will be >>>> another $300 at least. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Neil. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> *From:* Rotary motors in aircraft >>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, August 4, 2020 4:42 PM >>>> *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft >>>> *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: Turbos for 13b's in aircraft >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Hi Dave; >>>> >>>> What did you use for a shut-off valve for your oil? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Todd Bartrim >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Mon, Aug 3, 2020 at 8:16 PM David Leonard wdleonard@gmail.com < >>>> flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: >>>> >>>> Kelly, you are right. I even mentioned the TO4-E50 in my post above. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Mark, its not about the horsepower so much as keeping the turbo in its >>>> proper operating environment for the conditions you are going to be >>>> giving. You mentioned "300-400hp" in your post, but it seem that perh= aps >>>> you dont have a specific target in mind. Thats fine, but you are not = going >>>> to land much above 180hp unless you have a specific target and a plan = to >>>> achieve it. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> The stock hitachi you mention is a T3 turbine. It and the 2nd gen 13b >>>> it ran with were only rated at 200hp in the car - and only for short >>>> bursts. I did what you are thinking about doing. I ran the stock tur= bo to >>>> see what I would get. I was making a little over 200hp and the turbo >>>> lasted for about 70 flight hours. Looking at its turbo map, the impel= ler >>>> was running over 100k RPM. It's very surprising it lasted 70 hours. = It >>>> probably only lasted that long because most of the time I was not runn= ing >>>> full power. The turbo imploded on my first long cross country. I was >>>> almost home and decided to let it loose a little. I was running about= 30" >>>> MAP at 17.5k altitude. It lasted about 30 min doing that. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> My advice, if you want to experiment with turbos, is to install a >>>> shut-off valve on the oil feed line to the turbo. I now have one in m= y >>>> installation. When the turbo goes it will be hemorrhaging oil into th= e >>>> exhaust. Without a shut-off valve, you will run out of oil before you= can >>>> get very far. With the valve, you can continue to fly n/a as long as = you >>>> need. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Play around with that spreadsheet I sent you. Make up numbers that ar= e >>>> realistic for how much boost at what altitude you realistically want t= o >>>> fly, then find a turbo to fit those parameters. You can cut and paste >>>> various turbo maps onto the spreadsheet. They are available on the >>>> internet but most of the relevant ones are there on the spreadsheet. = Try >>>> to keep the turbo in its center island of efficiency while staying awa= y >>>> from the 'surge' line. Also, keep the RPM under 60k if possible. You= will >>>> find that Kellys suggestion of the TO4-E50 is a good choice and readil= y >>>> available. You will also see that the stock T3 does not belong in an >>>> aircraft. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> >>>> Dave Leonard >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Mon, Aug 3, 2020 at 5:19 PM Kelly Troyer keltro@gmail.com < >>>> flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: >>>> >>>> Group, >>>> >>>> I have no running experience yet but when I purchased my turbo I >>>> settled on a "Turbonetics" TO4-E50 with a 1.15 a/r turbine housing so = as to >>>> not get into >>>> >>>> any overspeed problems..........FWIW >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> http://www.turboneticsinc.com/industrial/product/turbochargers-0 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Kelly troyer >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Mon, Aug 3, 2020 at 4:51 PM 12348ung@gmail.com < >>>> flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: >>>> >>>> Dave, >>>> >>>> Just how much extra Hp do you think you got withy the >>>> upgraded Turbo? I will be happy with 250 to 300 HP from the stock >>>> Hitachi. Am I off with the fairys having this expectation? >>>> >>>> Neil. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> *From:* Rotary motors in aircraft >>>> *Sent:* Monday, August 3, 2020 4:07 AM >>>> *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft >>>> *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: Turbos for 13b's in aircraft >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> James, >>>> >>>> I had my stock housing upgraded to TO4 by BNR Supercars. They also >>>> have options for the Renisis. http://bnrsupercars.com/ Cost is $950 >>>> for the level 4 upgrade. Makes a nice tight fit. I had a big discuss= ion >>>> about Turbo maps that you can find in the archives. I settled on a TO= 4-H >>>> or TO4-E50 to top out around 350hp at sea level. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Attached is a turbo excel spreadsheet that you can use to evaluate >>>> various parameters in selecting a turbo. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Dave Leonard >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Sun, Aug 2, 2020 at 12:07 AM 12348ung@gmail.com < >>>> flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: >>>> >>>> James, >>>> >>>> 2 flying that I know of =E2=80=93 Todd Bartrim and Dave leonnard. = Think >>>> they have the standard RX7 Hitachi turbo. Just been around the world >>>> trying to get an affordable turbo for my renesis which does not exist= if >>>> you talk to drag racers etc., Quotes between $4500 and $6500. Bought= 2 >>>> hitachi turbos for $125 and one looks set to go while the other will n= eed >>>> bearings. >>>> >>>> There was an offer of one in south Africa for freight >>>> only. Would be a bargain. Just hooking mine up now, but as usual muc= h to >>>> go that I have not factored as usual. Finally found an intercooler th= at >>>> may fit. >>>> >>>> Best, Neil. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> *From:* Rotary motors in aircraft >>>> *Sent:* Sunday, August 2, 2020 11:48 AM >>>> *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft >>>> *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Turbos for 13b's in aircraft >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Does anyone out there have any recommendations for a turbo (brand and >>>> size) for a 13b in an aircraft? 300-400 hp range. Reasons or experienc= e is >>>> appreciated! Auto racers have their needs but are different from >>>> aircraft... or so I've heard. My 13b's are nearing the decision stage = for >>>> turbos. Thanks, James Whitehurst >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> --000000000000cf3ded05ac38f856 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Todd,=C2=A0 I dont think you will miss the AMU. It= is easy enough to change out the actuator.=C2=A0 I have 2 turbos from BNR.= =C2=A0 In one I removed the wastegate flapper all together and just left th= e hole wide open.=C2=A0 That gives me about 42" MAP at sea level and p= rotects me from my lead fist.=C2=A0 Its perfect for my everyday flying.=C2= =A0 The other one uses the stock actuator and will give me 45" at 10k = density altitude.=C2=A0 I call it my race turbo. =C2=A0 Nothing like raging= around at Vne.=C2=A0 Nothing like the gas bill either.=C2=A0
It will be easy enough to use your TurboSmart.=C2=A0 Bummer the= y dont do the Stage 4 anymore.=C2=A0 Seemed like a lot of work for them to = do for 0.1amu.=C2=A0 Hopefull they still port the wastegate a little.
=

We definitely have to get together for a hockey game so= metime.

Dave Leonard

On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 = at 9:23 PM Todd Bartrim bartrim@gmail.= com <flyrotary@lancai= ronline.net> wrote:
I end= ed up ordering the stage 3 turbo from BNR as they no longer machine the exh= aust housing to make a stage 4. I paid the $100 core charge to save on ship= ping down there. I'd rather give it to him than FedEx. So this means I = get to keep my old turbo so maybe in the future I'll see what=C2=A0I ca= n do about sourcing the parts to do my own upgrade. Pretty soon I'll ha= ve enough spare parts to build another airplane.
=C2=A0 As they say &qu= ot;ignorance is bliss", and I was content to think I was not asking mu= ch of my turbo and so I didn't have to worry about it, but again this l= ist has proven its value as random info not even directed at me has made me= aware that at any given time my poor little turbo could give up the ghost = and leave me looking for a place to put down where there are none.
=C2=A0 I asked him to put a 7psi spring in the actuator, as the TurboSmar= t controller will allow me to achieve more at the touch of a button. But I = may just replace it with my own actuator anyways. I'll decide when I re= ceive=C2=A0it.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Now I'm going to rethink my inter= cooler installation. I had recently removed it as I didn't feel it was = a very effective installation due to space constraints=C2=A0and didn't = think it was really doing much for me. I now think it was doing more than I= thought, but I now have an opportunity with some space freed up to do a be= tter install.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Last year I bought a little bitty tiny= lithium battery to replace the big old lead acid battery. As it has some s= marts on it, the first thing it told me was that it didn't like being o= ver on the hot side of the engine, behind the turbo. So since it is so smal= l and light, it was an easy thing to move over to the other side of the eng= ine, right beside my primary alternator. So I removed the Vans battery moun= t and now have quite a bit of free space in which to mount the intercooler,= however=C2=A0it will probably require some modification. This is all yet t= o be determined....

Todd Bartrim


On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at = 1:17 AM Todd Bartrim bartrim@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
Hi Dave;
=C2=A0 Another quest= ion for you about your wastegate. Are you using the wastegate that he provi= ded? And what pressure is the spring?
=C2=A0 I told = him I would rather use my own wastegate, but he didn't seem to know wha= t I was talking about when I told him it was a piston type rather than a di= aphragm and kept insisting that I'd want to use his with a 14psi spring= .
I also want the lowest possible spring pressure as= I have a TurboSmart electronic boost controller which can give higher pre-= programed pressures at the touch of a button, by venting the boost pressure= signal to the actuator. But it can't give any pressure lower than what= the spring pressure is.
=C2=A0 One of my considerat= ions for lower max boost pressure is that my engine was not originally turb= ocharged so I have the high compression 9.4:1 rotors.
=C2=A0 Fot that reason I've always been conservative and tried to lim= it my boost to 6psi, which is my current spring pressure.
=C2=A0 When my original diaphragm actuator burst, I saw about 16 psi = without detonation, and it was fun, but not something I want to subject the= engine to regularly.

Th= anks, Todd



On = Tue., Aug. 4, 2020, 23:12 Todd Bartrim bartrim@gmail.com, <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wro= te:
Hi Dave;
= =C2=A0 =C2=A0I talked with BNR today and I'm not sure he really got wha= t I was looking for as he started by saying that a "stage 3" is w= hat I should have then said probably a "stage 1" would be good fo= r me.
=C2=A0 But other than that I did like what he = has to offer. However I'm thinking that even though I don't feel th= at I have the demands that you do, if I'm going to go this far, I'm= going all the way and might as well go for the "stage 4".
<= div dir=3D"auto">=C2=A0 =C2=A0The "stage 4" involves machining th= e exhaust housing to make room for a larger turbine wheel while the others = don't. So I wonder if I could source those other items and do this myse= lf. But as I don't even know enough about my starting point it's no= t very realistic to find the finish line without a significant investment i= n time. So for the low price of $1amu, I can have more than what I need. I&= #39;m also convinced that paying the $0.1amu core charge is good value when= you have to deal with international shipping.=C2=A0
So I guess I just need someone to give me a little shove to push me over t= he edge and call him back with my visa#.
=C2=A0 If h= e had an "add to cart" button on his website I think we'd be = past this point after a few beers watching playoff hockey.

=C2=A0Todd
=C2=A0= =C2=A0 =C2=A0(The only thing stranger than watching hockey in August, is t= hat there is less fans than my beer league games)


On Tue., Aug. 4, 2020, 17:03 12348ung@g= mail.com, <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:

Todd,

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Thanks for that as was exactly what I was th= inking.=C2=A0 Have tried many workshops in OZ and either ignorant or don=E2= =80=99t want the job.=C2=A0 Freight listed to the US and back can be $300 e= ach way.=C2=A0 Makes the $100 cheap.=C2=A0 Will contact them, and see what = eventuates as way down the path of fitting the stock turbo, really do not w= ant to start again.=C2=A0 Done that too many times before.

Thanks,=C2=A0 Neil.<= /u>

=C2= =A0

From: Rotary motors in = aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Wednesday, August 5, 2020 9:56 AM
To: Rotary motors in= aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Turbos for 13b's in aircraft

=C2=A0

Hi Neil;

=C2=A0 I t= alked to BNR today on the phone about my needs and wants. He said it was ab= out a 3 week turnaround time on the turbo, so I said maybe later this fall.= So he suggested that for a $100 dollar core charge, he could just get one = there and modify it for me and I can keep this one. That's kinda a no-b= rainer, because it would cost me that much to ship mine down to him. Then I= 'm only paying shipping one way.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0So for you that would make even more sense.=C2= =A0

Todd Bartrim

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

On Tue, Aug 4, 2020 at 3:41 PM 12348ung@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironlin= e.net> wrote:

<= span lang=3D"EN-AU">Dave and all,

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Finally great advice th= at I cannot get anywhere else as mention =E2=80=9CAircraft=E2=80=9D and the= phone line goes dead.=C2=A0 The oil cut off is great as well for I have pe= rsonal experience with =C2=A0a turbo failure in a truck =E2=80=93 you would= not believe the amount of oil that can fit into an exhaust!=C2=A0 That too= k more time to clean than replacing the turbo-- all 5 gallons of it.=C2=A0 =

=C2=A0= =C2=A0Will see what I can source here in OZ =C2=A0as to a turbo , as the fr= eight both ways to the US=C2=A0 is murderous.=C2=A0 Happy with the mod cost= which will be $1300 Oz dollars.=C2=A0 Still a cheap turbo.=C2=A0 Freight I= am guessing will be another $300 at least.

=C2=A0

Neil.

=C2=A0

From: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Tuesday, August 4,= 2020 4:42 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: T= urbos for 13b's in aircraft

=C2=A0

Hi Dave;

=C2=A0 What did you use for a shut-off va= lve for your oil?

=C2=A0=

Todd Bar= trim

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

On Mon, Aug 3, 2020 at 8:16 PM David Leonard <= a href=3D"mailto:wdleonard@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer n= oreferrer">wdleonard@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancai= ronline.net> wrote:

Kelly, you= are right.=C2=A0 I even mentioned the TO4-E50 in my post above.<= /u>

=C2=A0

Mark, its not about the horsepower so much as keeping the= turbo in its proper operating environment for the conditions you are going= to be giving.=C2=A0 You mentioned "300-400hp" in your post, but = it seem that perhaps you dont=C2=A0have a specific=C2=A0target in mind.=C2= =A0 Thats fine, but you are not going to land much above 180hp unless you h= ave a specific target and a plan to achieve it.=C2=A0=C2=A0

=C2=A0

The stock hitachi you mention is a T3 turbine.=C2=A0 It = and the 2nd gen 13b it ran with were only rated at 200hp in the car - and o= nly for short bursts.=C2=A0 I did what you are thinking about doing.=C2=A0 = I ran the stock turbo to see what I would get.=C2=A0 I was making a little = over 200hp and the turbo lasted for about 70 flight hours.=C2=A0 Looking=C2= =A0at its turbo map, the impeller was running over 100k RPM.=C2=A0 It's= very surprising it lasted 70 hours.=C2=A0 It probably only lasted that lon= g because most of the time I was not running full power.=C2=A0 The turbo im= ploded on my first long cross country.=C2=A0 I was almost home and decided = to let it loose a little.=C2=A0 I was running=C2=A0about 30" MAP at 17= .5k altitude.=C2=A0 It lasted about 30 min doing that.

=C2=A0

My advice, if you want to experiment with turbos, is to inst= all a shut-off valve on the oil feed line to the turbo.=C2=A0 I now have on= e in my installation.=C2=A0 When the turbo=C2=A0goes it will be hemorrhagin= g=C2=A0oil into the exhaust.=C2=A0 Without a shut-off valve, you will run o= ut of oil before you can get very far.=C2=A0 With the valve, you can contin= ue to fly n/a as long as you need.

=C2=A0

Play a= round with that spreadsheet I sent you.=C2=A0 Make up numbers that are real= istic for how much boost at what altitude you realistically=C2=A0want to fl= y, then find a turbo to fit those parameters.=C2=A0 You can cut and paste v= arious turbo maps onto the spreadsheet.=C2=A0 They are available on the int= ernet but most of the relevant=C2=A0ones are there on the spreadsheet.=C2= =A0 Try to keep the turbo in its center island of efficiency while staying = away from the 'surge' line.=C2=A0 Also, keep the RPM under 60k if p= ossible.=C2=A0 You will find that Kellys suggestion of the TO4-E50 is a goo= d choice and readily available.=C2=A0 You will also see that the stock T3 d= oes not belong in an aircraft.

=C2=A0

Best,

Dave Leonard

=C2=A0

On Mon, Aug 3, 2020 at 5:19 PM Kelly Troyer kel= tro@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net&g= t; wrote:

Group,

=C2=A0 =C2=A0I have no running experience yet= but when I purchased my turbo I settled on a "Turbonetics" TO4-E= 50 with a 1.15 a/r turbine housing so as to not get into=C2=A0

any overspeed problems..........FWIW=

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Dave,

=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0 Just how much extra Hp do you think you got withy the upgraded Tu= rbo?=C2=A0 I will be happy with 250 to 300 HP from the stock Hitachi.=C2=A0= Am I off with the fairys having this expectation?

=

Neil.

<= p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0

<= div style=3D"border-width:1pt medium medium;border-style:solid none none;bo= rder-color:rgb(225,225,225) currentColor currentColor;padding:3pt 0in 0in">=

From: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Monday, A= ugust 3, 2020 4:07 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Subject: [FlyRot= ary] Re: Turbos for 13b's in aircraft

=C2=A0

James,

I had my stock housing upgraded= to TO4 by BNR Supercars.=C2=A0 They also have options for the Renisis.=C2= =A0http://bnrsupercars.com/=C2=A0Cost is $950 for the level 4= upgrade.=C2=A0 Makes a nice tight fit.=C2=A0 I had a big discussion about = Turbo maps that you can find in the archives.=C2=A0 I settled on a TO4-H or= TO4-E50 to top out around 350hp at sea level.

=

=C2=A0

Attached is a turbo excel spreadsheet that you can use to evaluate va= rious parameters in selecting a turbo.

=C2=A0

Da= ve Leonard

=C2=A0

On Sun, Aug 2, 2020 at 12:07 A= M 12348ung@gmail.com <flyrotary@lanca= ironline.net> wrote:

James,

=C2=A0 2 flying that I know of= =E2=80=93 Todd=C2=A0 Bartrim and Dave leonnard.=C2=A0 Think they have the = standard RX7 Hitachi turbo.=C2=A0 Just been around the world trying to get = an affordable=C2=A0 turbo for my renesis which does not exist if you talk t= o drag racers etc.,=C2=A0 Quotes between $4500 and $6500.=C2=A0 Bought 2 hi= tachi turbos for $125 and one looks set to go while the other will need bea= rings.

= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 There was an offer of one in south Africa for freight only.= =C2=A0 Would be a bargain.=C2=A0 Just hooking mine up now, but as usual muc= h to go that I have not factored as usual.=C2=A0 Finally found an intercool= er that may fit.

Best,=C2=A0 Neil.

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

From: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@= lancaironline.net>
Sent: Sunday, August 2, 2020 11:48 AM<= br>To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@l= ancaironline.net>
Subject: [FlyRotary] Turbos for 13b'= s in aircraft

=C2=A0

Does anyone out there have any recomme= ndations for a turbo (brand and size) for a 13b in an aircraft? 300-400 hp = range. Reasons or experience is appreciated! Auto racers have their needs b= ut are different from aircraft... or so I've heard. My 13b's are ne= aring the decision stage for turbos. Thanks, James Whitehurst=


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