X-Junk-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=2.3 cv=PbaBeRpd c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=eqoqLvBUNPvazRlrm8cjfA==:117 a=x7bEGLp0ZPQA:10 a=ad1WmcueCrwA:10 a=y4yBn9ojGxQA:10 a=pGLkceISAAAA:8 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=7g1VtSJxAAAA:8 a=E8yZm1pyyjECKX_vO3IA:9 a=cyVNbrcW0EsdJnTG:21 a=a8E0tjem1oO7Ew-v:21 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=Qa1je4BO31QA:10 a=gvSQh4r-fQ0A:10 a=uWs6SO9Wri7uGeK07nQA:9 a=eMtvVn1OyyCUKPU6:21 a=r-8rNFuLFf8LtD-h:21 a=CmZR_-1fDrF30eRp:21 a=Urk15JJjZg1Xo0ryW_k8:22 a=grOzbf7U_OpcSX4AJOnl:22 From: "William Jepson wrjjrs@gmail.com" Received: from mail-lj1-f170.google.com ([209.85.208.170] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.2.14) with ESMTPS id 600970 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 03 Aug 2020 17:45:38 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.208.170; envelope-from=wrjjrs@gmail.com Received: by mail-lj1-f170.google.com with SMTP id w14so11464590ljj.4 for ; Mon, 03 Aug 2020 14:45:39 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=1t49ApKjhRiZfw2bshO5wuPeRBjtB9LEzABg0pJKiy8=; b=eWf0np22qHiQlYZOhIR0UGBEgBZ+eY0+RnfaNrFGSDVwrFPwghvqUf05oCpD1u2b19 A+lNv5sXiBgfGrqaImkbSvtgemKJE7f6IiMZ58E/7LpqB5Vvmkj7hotIRVZCdehAJJu9 GUrrwZGn8KCbTyTvmdAWuR5w+jF6C73W8kG76EOGVexykPZABneYtzS+jPslyEtUejXu Zw34HcZCj29Gebd8jbsL0BCgBfJ5AIQH/4qlYxU0KPPRYNi4RokSVrLkFLWDZDeUrzzK d1qwoEcqmC8PRcfdhmgDi8/EHl6IQbIA3a75DYMGeEk5WZTyfJPzocHZyCexjSnWTBCJ MrXQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=1t49ApKjhRiZfw2bshO5wuPeRBjtB9LEzABg0pJKiy8=; b=sGEmBZ3wLP+Tl4fcSze2jmhZ+F1YPVFPjk65Hrf5jtoVzY9Cm2aPldHG+QyePVBYT3 Nmrz33wQ5dOBbZo96q954vxLspK1KGDib606q9C4OZjnobugTLeb0NZI8djqcFcMC+mZ LT7VNJbu+dF3BsZKz29DyFrSm20Og89SlIymu4cwl26DULcjfRM0VqoHMewnav9nfgRD wxJs5cjpN7n3kmSFhEHXWqx+yM5W3u4RSpk8TK8tn0Bxz0bzXTSPz3k+rLsEAhX1CKbm pgqnP0NZNrrLnCx4vOlqNqm2QAh+pzw/KDLLbHT2FtVrZzeJMYSmVqnFR+v4GnZVDoTw UlxQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5338GFezK+eeEMwBmwtaJzs3pu7JHUqWeKPdBRRsOhwnxVYesiVw shGZ3g9NYgzrM7Xtsc4L46sxigdbl+heUWPEggH0sA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJx7IDipVSf+tygXh2pHNQoHH1leM5TOsSdnNDOAO/hRCNNWbvBddwDxxsR13Nwym+RlHdLZuCzNJ3M0Tr9iwVw= X-Received: by 2002:a2e:351a:: with SMTP id z26mr7499100ljz.3.1596491120594; Mon, 03 Aug 2020 14:45:20 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2020 14:45:09 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Kelly's 20B/Lyc 540 mount pics4 To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000215b5805ac000e06" --000000000000215b5805ac000e06 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Le Roux, That is a possibility. I don=E2=80=99t know what studs and dowels Mistral w= as using. Lynn=E2=80=99s comments are the voice of experience from many years = running a rotary powered race car. Note that on the Le Mans 26B Mazda ran a carbon fiber honeycomb plate the length of the engine. That was in addition to any of the regular engine mounts. Bill On Mon, Aug 3, 2020 at 1:03 PM Le Roux Breytenbach breytenbachleroux@gmail.com wrote: > Bill : The bending moment and axial loads you mentioned. Could it possibl= e > be - why some of the early design allumnium casted sumps, of the Mistral= 3 > rotary engines developed cracks ? as i remembered that the bed type mount > for the rotary ( pusher type config.) the thicker sump and plate, has a l= ot > to do with these loads and stiffen the rotars and irons as a solid unit, = as > well the bigger diameter tension bolts and =E2=80=9Cdowls=E2=80=9D > It was just crossing my mind, and i have no previous experience in these > loads and type of mounts as well as the casted sumps. > The torque loads of the prop and all ads up. > > Included : cut out of the article Mistral Magic > Could the loads be part of the sump problem in these type of mounts? i > don=E2=80=99t know. > > Cracked Sump > > =E2=80=9CI did have a couple of teething problems; the most important one= was a > crack in the aluminum-cast engine sump that I found during taxi tests. > Mistral reacted in their usual fashion. After getting details, they > confirmed they had a crack in the same area on one of the sumps they > tested. They designed a reinforced sump, but never got a repeat crack on > the other sumps, so none of the new models were made. I was offered a > temporary replacement until the new sumps would be produced to replace al= l > present sumps. I decided to wait, and got my new sump within two months= =E2=80=94and > a Mistral engineer came and installed it for me.=E2=80=9D > > > Sent from my iPhone > Le Roux Breytenbach > > On 03 Aug 2020, at 19:34, William Jepson wrjjrs@gmail.com < > flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: > > =EF=BB=BF > > Charlie, and everyone rotary, > I can see the desire to put a rotary in a similar mount to a standard > aircraft engine. But I want to remind everyone that a Mazda wankel in its > automotive layout doesn=E2=80=99t work well as the stack of plates and ho= usings > isn=E2=80=99t set up to handle the bending moment. In Mazda=E2=80=99s rac= ing engines they > added plates to enable them to hang the engine from one end. They still > used cradle mounts. The Lyc engine shown in the example has 2 crankcase > halves solid front to rear where the mounts are. If you don=E2=80=99t pla= n to build > the rotary with some modifications for axial stiffness and housing locati= on > it isn=E2=80=99t a good idea to hang it from one of the end plates. > Bill Jepson > > On Mon, Aug 3, 2020 at 5:45 AM Charlie England ceengland7@gmail.com < > flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: > >> >> >> On Mon, Aug 3, 2020 at 7:40 AM Charlie England >> wrote: >> >>> There are 8 pics in this series. My image resizer program got them down >>> to around 110-140 KB each, so they'll need to come in 8 separate emails= . >>> >>> -- >> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >> Archive and UnSub: >> http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html >> > --000000000000215b5805ac000e06 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Le Roux,=C2=A0
That is = a possibility. I don=E2=80=99t know what studs and dowels Mistral was using= . Lynn=E2=80=99s comments are the voice of experience from many years runni= ng a rotary powered race car. Note that on the Le Mans 26B Mazda ran a carb= on fiber honeycomb plate the length of the engine. That was in addition to = any of the regular engine mounts.
Bill
On Mon, A= ug 3, 2020 at 1:03 PM Le Roux Breytenbach breytenbachleroux@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
<= blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px= #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Bill : The bending moment a= nd axial loads you mentioned. Could it possible be - why some of the early = design =C2=A0allumnium casted sumps, of the Mistral 3 rotary engines develo= ped cracks ? as i remembered that the bed type mount for the rotary ( pushe= r type config.) the thicker sump and plate, has a lot to do with these load= s and stiffen the rotars and irons as a solid unit, as well the bigger diam= eter tension bolts and =E2=80=9Cdowls=E2=80=9D
It was just crossing my m= ind, and i have no previous experience in these loads and type of mounts as= well as the casted sumps.
The torque loads of the prop and all ads up.=

Included : cut out of the article Mistral Magic= =C2=A0
Could the loads be part of the sump problem in these type = of mounts? i don=E2=80=99t know.

Cracked Sump

=E2=80=9CI did have a couple of teething problems;= the most important one was a crack in the aluminum-cast engine sump that I= found during taxi tests. Mistral reacted in their usual fashion. After get= ting details, they confirmed they had a crack in the same area on one of th= e sumps they tested. They designed a reinforced sump, but never got a repea= t crack on the other sumps, so none of the new models were made. I was offe= red a temporary replacement until the new sumps would be produced to replac= e all present sumps. I decided to wait, and got my new sump within two mont= hs=E2=80=94and a Mistral engineer came and installed it for me.=E2=80=9D


Sent from my iPhone
Le = Roux Breytenbach=C2=A0

On 03 Aug 2020, at 19:34, William Jepson wrjjrs@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>= ; wrote:

=EF=BB=BF
Charlie= , and everyone rotary,
I can see the desire to= put a rotary in a similar mount to a standard aircraft engine. But I want = to remind everyone that a Mazda wankel in its automotive layout doesn=E2=80= =99t work well as the stack of plates and housings isn=E2=80=99t set=C2=A0u= p to handle the bending moment. In Mazda=E2=80=99s racing engines they adde= d plates to enable them to hang the engine from one end. They still used cr= adle mounts. The Lyc engine shown in the example has 2 crankcase halves sol= id front to rear where the mounts are. If you don=E2=80=99t plan to build t= he rotary with some modifications for axial stiffness and housing location = it isn=E2=80=99t a good idea to hang it from one of the end plates.
Bill Jepson=C2=A0

=
On Mon, Aug 3, 2020 at 5:45 AM Charli= e England ceengla= nd7@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:


On Mon, Aug 3, 2020 at 7:40 AM = Charlie England <ceengland7@gmail.com> wrote:
Ther= e are 8 pics in this series. My image resizer program got them down to arou= nd 110-140 KB each, so they'll need to come in 8 separate emails.=C2=A0=

--
Homepage:=C2=A0 http://www.flyrotary.com/
Archive and UnSub:=C2=A0 =C2=A0http://mail= .lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html
--000000000000215b5805ac000e06--