Steve,

Before selling the RV10 I purchased 4 yellow RX8 Denso injectors. I believe they are around 425cc. After default my EC3 required very little Mode 2/3 adjustment. I was using 540 cc prior to my EC3 needing a software patch by Tracy. I decided Tracy had changed my default injector size and the Yellow injectors worked great and tuned easier than the larger 540cc. I don’t think I could tune with saturated injectors. Genuine RX8 Denso injectors are not very expensive. Lots of Chinese look-alikes on Amazon ad eBay.

Wouldn’t it make sense to have fuel being mixed in that secondary runner?  I’ve pondered the same thing.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/OEM-fuel-injector-for-MAZDA-450cc-04-08-for-RX8-RX7-13B-Miata-yellow-Denso/122405560405?epid=1778067132&hash=item1c7ff0a055:g:YFcAAOSwcl1c8Kyh

Bobby

Hi Steve Boese or other cleverer people than I.

Can you explain or point me to info regarding intake port and injector staging.
In the Renesis engines as an example, the various ports have valves (excepting the primaries) and injectors.
Mazda seems to have done magic to create an intake system that supports a usable torque curve over a significant range.
Now I take it that it would be a mistake to turn on injectors while that port was closed.
But do they open a port, lets say the secondaries in a 4 port rotary but not switch on the injectors?
Now that’s what we are doing with our EC’s, Tracy has them on Primaries all the way up to 20” MAP before the secondary injectors turn on.
So because most of us have removed any valve (open all the time as we’re not interested in low rpm) we have a Primary runner with fuel being mixed,
but a Secondary runner without fuel being mixed.
So during the intake “stroke/rotational movement” the two masses of air from either side of the rotor, through seperate ports must mix to ideally create an even air/fuel mixture.
Wouldn’t it make sense to have fuel being mixed in that secondary runner?

It seems to me that smaller capacity injectors may provide better atomisation for lower end engine performance/economy/emissions, particularly when only the primary runners were active.

I’m also still wondering, should I consider replacing the small Primary Injectors that have saturated at times with larger injectors making 4 equal injectors?

Thanks for all the help.

Steve Izett




> On 19 Jun 2020, at 11:10 am, Steven W. Boese SBoese@uwyo.edu <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
>
> I have a SpeedUino running a 13B test engine. That system is already set up with a throttle body position input which is not used in the recent version I have. A few code changes allows a potentiometer to be used through that input for manual mixture control. I also found it not particularly difficult to come up with a dual wheel CAS file to be used with the Ardustim signal generator to simulate the 13B CAS for testing.
>
> Steve Boese
>
> On Jun 18, 2020, at 6:36 PM, Finn Lassen finn.lassen@verizon.net <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
>
>> ◆ This message was sent from a non-UWYO address. Please exercise caution when clicking links or opening attachments from external sources.
>>
>> Actually Tracy now recommends the SpeedUino boards and using TunerStudio (there is a free version) as the modern solution.
>> Yes, you'll have to do a bit of work if you want redundancy and manual mixture control.
>> I see them on eBay for about $150 each. Add relays to switch between the outputs of the boards for redundancy.
>> A bit of cooperative work on the open source SpeedUino code and you could have manual mixture control, if not already done by now.
>> So it doesn't really doesn't have to be all that expensive. Maybe $400 for the hardware. Naturally, if you want an of-the-shelf solution and expect hand holding and support, you most likely have to pay for it.
>>
>> So why did I chose a RWS EC3 for the RV-4 I'm building in spite of Tracy's recommendation?
>> The RV-3B I bought and have been flying has RWS EC2 and EM2, so I'm familiar with the operation of it.
>> And I guess I was too lazy to get into SpeedUino and learn that. Just seemed easier to install an EC3 and go fly. Would have worked too, if I hadn't listened to the warnings about using the stock Renesis ignition coils and gone and bought LS2 coils (D585). Also in the back of my mind was the track record of Tracy's controllers. I never really had a problem with them. In my mind they were reliable and proven. I guess one tends towards what one is familiar with. I should say that I still kind of enjoy tinkering with software and hardware. There is a certain satisfaction in overcoming obstacles and making things work, although it can bevery time consuming.
>>
>> I think we can draw a parallel to the mindset it takes to make your engine installation from scratch and just install a Lycoming.
>>
>> So, with the data I now have, I think I would recommend what Tracy recommends for any new installations and only get spares for working EC2/3 installations. If I understand it right, there is wide support for SpeedUino out there.
>>
>> Finn
>>
>>
>> On 6/18/2020 6:06 PM, 12348ung@gmail.com wrote:
>>> Re Tracy ECM.
>>> I note all the grief that is going back and forward and sympathise with you all. I had trouble with mine way back, sent it back to Tracy and it took 3 months before I saw it again. Decided then that this was not a good way to go as Tracy was semi retired then already. Tracy to me was absolutely brilliant in what he did, but that was 40 years ago?? So I bought a fueltech unit which is current technology but very dear compared to Tracy’s ECM. I have not regretted this purchase. The engine log can be emailed for support and within 24 hours you are fixed up. Then I am totally computer illiterate, so unable to fix anything like that myself, so I pay as usual.
>>> Neil.
>>>
>>> From: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
>>> Sent: Friday, June 19, 2020 2:10 AM
>>> To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
>>> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: EC3 software for Renesis RX-8/LS2 coils fixed and uploaded
>>>
>>> Hi Bobby,
>>>
>>> Actually Tracy does have a few new EC3 boards. I didn't ask how many.
>>>
>>> The hot question really is how big is the demand (quantity)?
>>>
>>> I probably have enough data from him (schematics, parts lists, PCB layout) to get a production run done.
>>>
>>> Tracy is serious about having retired. I was really, really lucky to get his help.
>>>
>>> I think a big reason for his decision to retire is to have time to enjoy life. I think the majority of his time before his retirement was spent on support (phone, emails).
>>>
>>> He really has no economic incentive to come out of retirement.
>>>
>>> So while we could get a production run done, I doubt anyone would be willing to spend time on support -- certainly not for new installations. Also the variety of engines, accessories and specialized programming for some installations would make it a nightmare to program the chips. Solution for that would probably be to read the working chips for your installation and then program the new chips with that, but then some would not get the latest features (closed loop, auto program using EC3 w/o EM).
>>>
>>> I thought I might take it on, but having second thoughts :)
>>>
>>> Will probably be a few days before I'm ready to roll the fuselage out of the hangar and do engine runs.
>>>
>>> Finn
>>>
>>> On 6/18/2020 10:18 AM, Bobby J. Hughes bhughes@qnsi.net wrote:
>>> Thanks Finn. I downloaded the files and notes. Once you are confident the hardware and software works properly we might consider a onetime production run of EC3’s for existing EC2/3 owners. I would like to have a tested spare available. It would likely take Tracy’s involvement to facilitate the board build or at least provided the suppler information and proper Rev number.
>>>
>>> I really appreciate the work you, Steve Izett and Steve B. are doing.
>>>
>>> Bobby
>>>
>>> From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]
>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2020 6:11 PM
>>> To: Rotary motors in aircraft
>>> Subject: [FlyRotary] EC3 software for Renesis RX-8/LS2 coils fixed and uploaded
>>>
>>> Here it is:
>>> https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1mVzPOxUwcGUlPizxnRF40nUyKBzfT4DC?usp=sharing
>>> It's EC3closedloop.zip.
>>>
>>> You may want to grab it now in case Google decides to close my account :)
>>>
>>> You can program the 18F452 chips directly using the EC3CL8.HEX file, or open EC3ClosedLoop.mcp in MPLAB IDE, compile and program. This is for RX-8 (EC3 engine type A8), LS2 coils (D585), large secondary injectors, default is wide band O2 sensor.
>>>
>>> Turns out Tracy has never programmed or delivered an EC3 for Renesis with LS2 coils.
>>> Software was missing code to load LS2 coils dwell time.
>>>
>>> I added Steve's code for configuration bits so don't have to remember what to set them to when programming.
>>> I set all protection bits to zero to avoid any chip reprogramming troubles, but you could change to:
>>>
>>>
>>> ; CONFIG6L
>>> CONFIG WRT0 = ON ; Write Protection bit (Block 0 (000200-001FFFh) write protected)
>>> Finn
>>>
>>> ENG EQU 0xA8 ;PUT ENGINE TYPE CODE HERE AND CHECK **** ALL **** FLAGS BELOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>>>
>>> N109TC EQU 0x00 ;N109TC USES A DIFFERENT assignment of coil drivers CLEAR for ALL except N109TC !!!!! and KERMIT unit 20B controllers
>>>
>>> DIAG EQU 0x00 ;DIAG ==1 ALLOWS DIAGNOSTIC USE OF 02H&L
>>>
>>> ; ***************** CHECK ALL FLAGS BEFORE PROGRAM MING CHIPS !!!!! **************************************************
>>>
>>> ; *************** DWELL TIME FLAGS *SET ONLY ONE* ***********************************************
>>>
>>> RX8COIL EQU 0x00 ;1= 2.6MS DWELL TIME (RX-8 COIL)
>>> RX7COIL EQU 0x00 ;1= 3.5MS DWELL TIME USED (also used for A7 2007 option)
>>> LS1COIL EQU 0x00 ;1= 4.3 MS DWELL USED
>>> HONDACOIL EQU 0x00 ;1= 1.7 MS DWELL (A REALLY TINY COIL)
>>> LS2COIL EQU 0x01 ;1= 4.0 MS DWELL
>>>
>>>
>>> TURBO EQU 0x00 ;0 = NA, 1 = TURBO VERSION (BIT 0 SET IN ECINFO IF TRUE)
>>> BFACTOR EQU D'20' ;BOOST RETARD FOR IGNITION TIMING lower value = more boost retard (25 IS USED FOR MOST ROTARY 20 on 03-05-09,
>>> LGSEC EQU 0x01 ;0 = PRI & SEC INJECTORS SAME SIZE 1 = LARGER SECONDARY INJECTORS (RENESIS 4 port)
>>> WIDEBAND EQU 0x01 ;0 = NARROWBAND O2 SENSOR IN USE, 1 = WIDEBAND SENSOR IN USE.
>>> TEMPSENSOR EQU 0x00 ;0 = THERMISTOR, 1 = LM34
>>> MAPSENSOR EQU 0x00 ;0 = MPX4250 SENSOR, 1 = MPX4115 (EARLIER VERSION OF EC2 ONLY)
>>> BUSENSOR EQU 0x00 ;0 = NO BACKUP SENSOR, 1 = BACKUP INSTALLED (0xA8,0xA9,AB,AD,B1,B2,B4 0-200 ENGINE ONLY)
>>> BREW EQU 0x00 ;0 = SET TO 1 FOR 3RD GEN 13BREW ENGINES : COMPENSATES FOR 5 DEG EARLIER 3RD GEN TIMING OF CAS
>>> ONEINJ EQU 0x00 ;0 = NORMAL 2 INJECTOR PER ROTOR 1 = 1 INJ PER ROTOR (NOT RECOMMENDED)
>>> CONT EQU 0x00 ;0 = NORMAL 0xA9 ENGINE, 1 = CONTINENTAL/Lyc VARIENT (also sets bu at 18 geg before primary)
>>> EMT EQU 0x00 ;0 = A9 W/ TRIG @ 6 DEG ATDC 1 = TDC @ TOOTH 11 (ELECTROMOTIVE TIMING SPEC) also sets BU at 180 deg
>>> A72007 EQU 0x00 ;0 = PRE 2005 SUBE EJ25 1 = 2005 OR LATER EJ25 W/ RX-8 TYPE CAS
>>> WTF EQU 0x00 ;0 = normal version 1 = BRAT - AKA - WhatTheFuck project version with transmission control functions
>>>
>>> TBINJ EQU 0x00 ;1= THROTTLE BODY INJECTION FLAG
>>> LS2_60_2 EQU 0x00 ;1= LS2 ENGINE EQUIPPED W/60-2 TOOTH TRIGGER WHEEL (USE ENG CODE 0xAB)
>>>
>>>
>>> Disclaimer
>>>
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>>>
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