X-Junk-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=2.3 cv=LuPsNUVc c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=aWWV3YQPlde2aWtwFJzBmQ==:117 a=x7bEGLp0ZPQA:10 a=Fee85h93u3AA:10 a=sTwFKg_x9MkA:10 a=XCnkGLEC4lIA:10 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=3oc9M9_CAAAA:8 a=eRLigfuSAAAA:8 a=7g1VtSJxAAAA:8 a=p6hGUVFu6qvSHC_lPbsA:9 a=S1dgGrjb0Vrnl6E8:21 a=t8B4rY3LNu3dV_dx:21 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=Qa1je4BO31QA:10 a=gvSQh4r-fQ0A:10 a=357FKEI3oMHHL6nc:21 a=iTXaLZMbeQ6bdaqe:21 a=FATOh2wcRf51kmoy:21 a=Urk15JJjZg1Xo0ryW_k8:22 a=BfhXYjFvZD4iae-mNffo:22 a=grOzbf7U_OpcSX4AJOnl:22 From: "lehanover lehanover@aol.com" Received: from sonic304-9.consmr.mail.bf2.yahoo.com ([74.6.128.32] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.2.14) with ESMTPS id 244887 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sat, 16 May 2020 08:53:19 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=74.6.128.32; envelope-from=lehanover@aol.com DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=aol.com; s=a2048; t=1589633582; bh=4stWkixuqR1GlosRRk5GJ3KXqnFSl0vzLAGZkmiT9J4=; h=Date:From:To:In-Reply-To:References:Subject:From:Subject; b=iUjPWkxRxJ1YCqpk8ipxqh1wchx/WnpecLs45icLP1annhAoPqGmFJF6oKPxqLo742YWURY5R68KsVMXHeAV/Ml+J/J30rGkOr075v4Pt12WgoPqftX3yUnOhGOYBY4NjylLDrDCfO5Z/jTILMEPcfclDMF8gknQNORvmR/TkemaDh9VoJzWsRsH2SdE9f8PvxkT4blPOLHtx3cmoQC388MQjAmilld74n3EwX9gdKQ1nOqTji61D6NFJiDKGI533fsyRNAd1MpVf+J23hlCiRv5iUcHtckjqTD+WgPHK9pWIUFjRm7brNWDOcUtNuC8//P+lktaP0pbQLzNQjWWmg== X-YMail-OSG: .6J9W4MVM1k5m4X_pijxd12HL6c_gwL7wMm3uGHrPJ9zJ6cSolmvrzB4zkaAIFD bw6IWc4IBgEZADkpj9l2cxE4ETWCeRxTef5qx17J6c6j3z2CQNpSaOQgybIN8WeTeHNmPmOGMTQ1 QHPvqu7lZMzAaeNlyBEjXgdWVTvO51gGVxZkx01uJoI2rFgD8yhHF0lkeGQOcgKOAx2TVBJSVDIO Sev_khlczv.tVAOrntZTlYOHAMpqojxkWaJLWFbtB3pRDYn4ORd.GUVHbCLINfHtjRPxtsd0qj.k VdtifWTtAmW_zF3.zxdhi8WPyCf3nrJkKZTnz8fMzKPR7UnPsChoxmJllt4BNGniRFZUlhbTsPrf 7PZicVkzP4PrxIwyT4xy6jjJV0x2vNekxwr992H4169tDGep7qar9SHcrJpoBGBKC3sS0bpBZhB_ v_uiJ7YYIrHKyJTCKl8AKxgcor5qxYrP0zGOx_zW37ykGyiIIbPvmLAIJhFaR2c0TiT3gS0Dq9Ui pvBn6mZvrLBEEILFq42ZrQiVBD4MmeCZRjzX.HU5WruQ_SQsPWVhVZpeMdmJQklUXHCL1Ug9KXcs soUY.7fYR5xssZsw9EqeOYYRsdary24TWuipRBJMxDAihjUtmrAjfKy6xyd20LHHmtwXAQzT4n8_ gMzkfILH4VtX5AmbCEBkBie1WryXr9dP0pI.vHsChfS9DWGbCK9Mkaam97R6fS5s2z_e_Q1q82a9 IiktnjmDz3yt.D1DShkS6832q0oVMyUXHojUy0uGammVRsRQfZx6e8Lby0eE3WWA24vZx6Euu4tf 5y9RiKUxbPLQqaS.lBjo8vxfJ76kKM4HPBgu_ioOTNia8u9REQoLcc9WnYFC1ACGWNyBpPdgVfzM cgw2nNzLUMBJ6xmtQWJZB8xqlhPkryniAgBFBiuWkGmSzAz1XmlJoNC7kcp03ka72XozGil3xcBI Kp2_p94QV7bdoeiDieErehMuBokyHKh.36oNL1p9yrwmd0W5sjCPegTKL_7eWT1ZHaVutYr25JFI MybkG6VMzA7YUsCUCPaPZy_lJQyjph2s4ZtsPDTYzrmwkbg.jZ8KsC39bdkun3N_SbtljclZcTTn PoYvLnkWzRQOT58fk74cGbfIYyIvgrDG6IMJdDVeQGg3tJOrtdqjNsfeLw6GiBj.Ik1YOoUABGoR gI0zmIEgoZqlcNTOW9NmP_rKIoS2FUCzF4LrF5rMz9CzLSMuv.yvoA8swdhwkNJ4ReqtaZmq1rn9 JbNM6h4QXC99Zs4J.SVEJAbU3vZb2CjVIy1tKjIDPNCVi0OHBbmGmHg_S2yAxCD1jeR_uUzUAlSA ppyHaLNxEUv0c210CEIuri7A6Nsle Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic304.consmr.mail.bf2.yahoo.com with HTTP; Sat, 16 May 2020 12:53:02 +0000 Date: Sat, 16 May 2020 12:52:58 +0000 (UTC) To: flyrotary@lancaironline.net Message-ID: <985775342.68543.1589633578929@mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Water Pump MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_68542_962834550.1589633578927" X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.15960 aolloki Apache-HttpClient/4.5.7 (Java/1.8.0_144) Content-Length: 14296 ------=_Part_68542_962834550.1589633578927 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The stock impeller is sized to provide enough flow to cool the engine on a = hot day at idle. We used the Racing Beat pulley set. Smaller crank pulley a= nd a just a bit bigger pump pulley. This is good up to 10,000 RPM. I doubt that any modifications would be required if you only need 7,500 RPM= . The restricter increases the water pressure in the block and helps retard= nucleate boiling around the spark plugs. When you use ice cold heat range = plugs (and you should) a bit more plug heat goes into the housing around th= e plugs. Notice on junk housings that have had very hard use with street pl= ugs, that there are radial crack running from one or both plug holes into t= he chrome. My mixture was distilled water. Ten percent Glycol. one teaspoon full of Da= wn dish washing detergent. Or, RedLine's WaterWetter coolant helper. Both w= ork. One is cheap. I also used a swirl pot (required by Cosworthfor all of = their installations.) The rotary loves to hide air in the engine. Then when= the RPMs come up the air wanders about looking for the worst possible spot= to stop and insulate some critical location from the coolant. Air comes to the swirl pot and pops to the top where it is fed to the botto= m of a make up bottle. So, as the temperature changes and the volume decrea= ses, only raw coolant is pulled back into the system. Even with a swirl pot= it takes two 20 minute sessions to get all of the air out of the system. T= he make up bottle was the stock piece from any 70s RX-2,RX-3 or RX-7. It wa= s not my idea but it works great. The thermostat is on top of the make up b= ottle. Use the highest pressure (Stant Lever cap) you can fit to the bottle= ). The higher the pressure the hotter the engine can get without boiling th= e coolant. Not a big deal until you need just another 100 yards to make fla= t ground, or a road, or a runway. Fire pumps on large ships are called main feed pumps. These huge pumps will= not start up unless a specific inlet pressure is reached. In front of the = main feed pump you will find two or four smaller booster pumps. The booster= pumps deliver the high pressure water to the inlet of the main feed pump. = Without the boosters, the main feed would start up and just boil water at t= he inlet. Part of the impeller would have 50 pounds of water and some of th= e impeller might have none at all. This imbalance is not felt when a tiny c= ar impeller is used. When the impeller is 4 feet in diameter everyone on th= e ship knows there is a major problem. =20 Gained at great expense from 35 years of racing. Lynn E. Hanover=C2=A0 In a message dated 5/15/2020 8:09:19 PM Eastern Standard Time, flyrotary@la= ncaironline.net writes: Thanks Lynn. So cavitation is not simply solved by impeller design but syst= em wide considerations of pressure.CheersI=E2=80=99m trying to eek out any = small % increases in cooling efficiency for our hotter summer months and wo= ndered if the Re-medy pump would provide any benefit at our take off and cl= imb at 7250 rpm. Steve Izett > On 16 May 2020, at 7:48 am, lehanover lehanover@aol.com wrote:> > I raced Mazdas for 25 years. Used the stock 12-A wat= er pump with a 5/8" restricter in the outlet. Never a problem. Notice that = the return hose from the radiator on most cars is bigger and has a spring i= nside to prevent hose collapse. The hose collapse comes about when the wate= r pressure inside the hose is lower than local air pressure. When you incre= ase flow rate and do not change the restrictions in the loop (radiator, hos= es, bends, or filter) coolant on the suction side of the pump will boil. Th= e pumps suction side will see very low coolant pressures and cavitate. In a= ircraft, where nearly every radiator is close to being too small this probl= em probably comes up more often. My cooling system worked perfectly because= I used a huge coolant radiator> ( very low restriction) and three oil radi= ators and a restricter on the pump outlet. At first I used part of a thermo= stat for restriction. Then a custom aluminum washer. If the washer was left= out the temps went up. So I welded the washer into the outlet neck. We had= two engines and the same two water pumps lasted all of that time. Shifting= at 9,600 RPM.> Lynn E. Hanover > > In a message dated 5/15/2020 7:15:13 PM Eastern Standard Time, flyrota= ry@lancaironline.net writes:> > Thanks Guys for the feedback re pumps.> And= rew, what information did you get that caused you to change to the Re-medy = pump?> Was it from a reputable source, like racers? I=E2=80=99ve put it in = the diary to call GoGear when I=E2=80=99m back in Perth early next week.> I= have little trust in advertising these days and if I=E2=80=99m going to go= to the trouble and expense I=E2=80=99d like some science behind it.> > Che= ers> > Steve> > > > On 15 May 2020, at 11:17 pm, Andrew Martin andrew@marti= nag.com.au wrote:> >> > I=E2=80=99ve had Mazm= art Re-medy pump in since start. Seems thats been one component I=E2=80=99v= e not had to worry about.> > Andrew> >> > --> > Regards Andrew Martin Marti= n Ag> > > --> Homepage:=C2=A0 http://www.flyrotary.com/> Archive and UnSub:= =C2=A0 http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html --Homepage:=C2=A0 http://www.flyrotary.com/Archive and UnSub:=C2=A0 http://= mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html ------=_Part_68542_962834550.1589633578927 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
The stock impeller is sized to provide enough flow to cool the engine on a hot day at idle. We used the Racing Beat pulley set. Smaller crank pulley and a just a bit bigger pump pulley. This is good up to 10,000 RPM.
I doubt that any modifications would be required if you only need 7,500 RPM. The restricter increases the water pressure in the block and helps retard nucleate boiling around the spark plugs. When you use ice cold heat range plugs (and you should) a bit more plug heat goes into the housing around the plugs. Notice on junk housings that have had very hard use with street plugs, that there are radial crack running from one or both plug holes into the chrome.
My mixture was distilled water. Ten percent Glycol. one teaspoon full of Dawn dish washing detergent. Or, RedLine's WaterWetter coolant helper. Both work. One is cheap. I also used a swirl pot (required by Cosworth
for all of their installations.) The rotary loves to hide air in the engine. Then when the RPMs come up the air wanders about looking for the worst possible spot to stop and insulate some critical location from the coolant.

Air comes to the swirl pot and pops to the top where it is fed to the bottom of a make up bottle. So, as the temperature changes and the volume decreases, only raw coolant is pulled back into the system. Even with a swirl pot it takes two 20 minute sessions to get all of the air out of the system. The make up bottle was the stock piece from any 70s RX-2,RX-3 or RX-7. It was not my idea but it works great. The thermostat is on top of the make up bottle. Use the highest pressure (Stant Lever cap) you can fit to the bottle). The higher the pressure the hotter the engine can get without boiling the coolant. Not a big deal until you need just another 100 yards to make flat ground, or a road, or a runway.

Fire pumps on large ships are called main feed pumps. These huge pumps will not start up unless a specific inlet pressure is reached. In front of the main feed pump you will find two or four smaller booster pumps. The booster pumps deliver the high pressure water to the inlet of the main feed pump. Without the boosters, the main feed would start up and just boil water at the inlet. Part of the impeller would have 50 pounds of water and some of the impeller might have none at all. This imbalance is not felt when a tiny car impeller is used. When the impeller is 4 feet in diameter everyone on the ship knows there is a major problem.

Gained at great expense from 35 years of racing.

Lynn E. Hanover
 

In a message dated 5/15/2020 8:09:19 PM Eastern Standard Time, flyrotary@lancaironline.net writes:

Thanks Lynn.
So cavitation is not simply solved by impeller design but system wide considerations of pressure.
Cheers
I’m trying to eek out any small % increases in cooling efficiency for our hotter summer months and wondered
if the Re-medy pump would provide any benefit at our take off and climb at 7250 rpm.

Steve Izett


> On 16 May 2020, at 7:48 am, lehanover lehanover@aol.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
>
> I raced Mazdas for 25 years. Used the stock 12-A water pump with a 5/8" restricter in the outlet. Never a problem. Notice that the return hose from the radiator on most cars is bigger and has a spring inside to prevent hose collapse. The hose collapse comes about when the water pressure inside the hose is lower than local air pressure. When you increase flow rate and do not change the restrictions in the loop (radiator, hoses, bends, or filter) coolant on the suction side of the pump will boil. The pumps suction side will see very low coolant pressures and cavitate. In aircraft, where nearly every radiator is close to being too small this problem probably comes up more often. My cooling system worked perfectly because I used a huge coolant radiator
> ( very low restriction) and three oil radiators and a restricter on the pump outlet. At first I used part of a thermostat for restriction. Then a custom aluminum washer. If the washer was left out the temps went up. So I welded the washer into the outlet neck. We had two engines and the same two water pumps lasted all of that time. Shifting at 9,600 RPM.
> Lynn E. Hanover
>
> In a message dated 5/15/2020 7:15:13 PM Eastern Standard Time, flyrotary@lancaironline.net writes:
>
> Thanks Guys for the feedback re pumps.
> Andrew, what information did you get that caused you to change to the Re-medy pump?
> Was it from a reputable source, like racers? I’ve put it in the diary to call GoGear when I’m back in Perth early next week.
> I have little trust in advertising these days and if I’m going to go to the trouble and expense I’d like some science behind it.
>
> Cheers
>
> Steve
>
>
> > On 15 May 2020, at 11:17 pm, Andrew Martin andrew@martinag.com.au <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
> >
> > I’ve had Mazmart Re-medy pump in since start. Seems thats been one component I’ve not had to worry about.
> > Andrew
> >
> > --
> > Regards Andrew Martin Martin Ag
>
>
> --


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