From: "Stephen Izett stephen.izett@gmail.com" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
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Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Update on Glasair Cooling in Phase #1
Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2019 15:01:49 +0800
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To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
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Message-Id: <B2C817E3-8EA5-4D81-A0DD-1CBD1EFC2BAE@gmail.com>

Thanks heaps Lynn for the expertise.

Ours is a stock 4 port early Renesis with a electric inflight adjustable =
prop.
It runs out of breath above 7300rpm with our inlet tract which seems to =
line up with Mazda=E2=80=99s torque graph for the 4 port.
Coils are D585=E2=80=99s, Injectors stock controlled by an EC2.

Much appreciated.

Steve Izett
Perth Western Australia


> On 5 Nov 2019, at 2:24 pm, lehanover lehanover@aol.com =
<flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
>=20
> When the cold fuel air mixture gets to the rotor face (much hotter =
than the oil temps) it expands violently.
> This slows, stops, or even reverses the incoming charge in the runner. =
The exact loss would depend on hundreds of items.
> Velocity in the runner would be a big one. But every different setup =
would need to be on a dyno to pin down the numbers. Richer mixture for =
take off and climb will help fuel cool the charge. Once at cruise lean =
of peak EGT will reduce temps (and power) and give best economy. =
Rotaries have poor torque at any RPM so try higher RPM for takeoff until =
no increase in performance is seen and then back off of that a bit. My =
best was 13,000 RPM. The driver stuck it into first instead of third on =
a downshift. Had to sand the irons a bit working on the tailgate of a =
pickup. Made the race the next day. If it is a sound well built engine =
even up to 8,000 RPM for takeoff would not hurt it. Our normal shift =
point was 9,600 RPM. Cruise speed would be controlled by the cost of =
fuel. The lightest bearing loads are at about 6,000 RPM.
> Make one change at a time. Make the first change big so you can see =
which direction the change is taking you. Then go back to the starting =
point and make a list of small changes in that direction. Compile data =
electronicly  or make movies of the dash board.
>=20
> The Star Mazda people send engines back for rebuild every few weeks. =
They run thin oil scalding hot to reduce oil drag. They have plenty of =
fuel for fuel cooling. Note the sheets of fire out the exhaust. Not much =
to copy off of those people for airplanes. Daryl Drummond used to build =
every one of those engines.
> A monster ignition system and standard auto fuel. Ice cold spark =
plugs. Redline 40 or 50 weight at 100 PSI or as close as you can get.
>=20
> Just my opinions. I could be completely wrong......Lynn E. Hanover
>=20
> You are flying a dyno. So a week of testing would give you a chart for =
best power/mixture for each situation.
>=20
> In a message dated 11/4/2019 6:22:22 PM Eastern Standard Time, =
flyrotary@lancaironline.net writes:
>=20
> Hi Bobby
> Thanks, I had the same thought yesterday. Introduced a further 15 in2 =
of airflow to cowl.
> I must get on and instrument the cowl for pressures.
>=20
> Thanks Lynn.
> What kind of power difference might we see between say oil of 180F and =
200F
> Does oil temp also effects fuel economy?
> I need to do further testing at higher airs speeds and trying to =
understand the tradeoffs between approx power/eccon cost if we were to =
only get down to 200F.
> I had a Starmazda paper that stated that they target 200F.
>=20
> Also any feedback on how to fly the engine would be appreciated by my =
test pilot friend who is doing the testing.
> He is trying to get a handle on what rpm, map, prop pitch settings to =
use for the various flight regimes.
> The prop is elect variable but not auto/constant speed.
>=20
> For take off we are just winding in pitch (a human governor) to keep =
RPM at ~7300 and 120KIAS climb.
> Now I=E2=80=99m guessing that we=E2=80=99ll eventually experiment with =
best rpm/blade pitch/map that gives best efficiency, but before then can =
you guys provide any wisdom?
>=20
> What RPM might you target after initial climb?
>=20
> As always, really appreciate the feedback.
> Cheers
>=20
> Steve Izett
> > On 5 Nov 2019, at 3:21 am, lehanover lehanover@aol.com =
<flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
> >
> > The oil temp tracks the power output. Hotter rotor means hotter oil. =
Not a solid connection to water temps but some. Oil temps above 160 =
degrees cost power.
> > Lynn E. Hanover
> >
> > In a message dated 11/4/2019 9:28:29 AM Eastern Standard Time, =
flyrotary@lancaironline.net writes:
> >
> > Steve,
> >
> > If all your exchangers dump into the cowl then the increased flow / =
pressure through the coolant exchangers may be limiting air flow through =
the oil cooler.
> >
> > Bobby
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]
> > Sent: Sunday, November 03, 2019 3:42 PM
> > To: Rotary motors in aircraft
> > Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Update on Glasair Cooling in Phase #1
> >
> > Sorry Matt, I just realised I hadn=E2=80=99t mentioned the actual =
oil temps.
> > Highest in climb were 114C (237F) settling back to 110C this is 10C =
higher than previous flight?? OAT was up 4C ~7F
> > I would have expected a symbiotic relationship between oil and water =
temps. Lower coolant yielding lower oil temps.
> > This is troubling me, Prior to this flight I noticed oil level down =
on the stick. Its always been very consistently full  with no signs of =
leaks etc. (Standard Renesis pan)
> > It=E2=80=99s running Mobile 1 and measuring the oil entering the =
engine after cooler and filter.
> >
> > Steve
> >
> > > On 3 Nov 2019, at 11:35 pm, Matt Boiteau mattboiteau@gmail.com =
<flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
> > >
> > > Coolant looks great. Are you running a t-stat?
> > > What are the oil temps when you say "high"? Synthetic? Weight? Oil =
pan or inlet temp location?
> > >
> > > This is my opinion, with synthetic 20W50 at oil pain temps, I'd be =
okay during the climb with 240F and hopefully after some air speed it =
drops down under 220F.
> > >
> > > I do agree you might have to open up to 100mm (4 inch) for oil =
cooler.
> > >
> > > - Matt Boiteau
> > >> On 2019-11-03 8:31:47 AM, Stephen Izett stephen.izett@gmail.com =
<flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> Hi there people
> > >>
> > >> Over the past month I have updated the cooling system of the =
Glasair Super II RG in order to continue our phase 1 testing.
> > >>
> > >> The previous setup had 540in3 two pass behind the ~20in2 =
unmodified right cheek inlet.
> > >> We hadn=E2=80=99t included the left cheek as it was so difficult =
to get the air across to the right hand side diffuser.
> > >> The Oil is 250in3 behind a 8in2 under spinner inlet.
> > >> Initial testing was marginal with OAT below 20C (68F)
> > >> So having established that cooling was rather marginal above 68F =
I went for the planned upgrade path which included
> > >> installing a secondary bike radiator of 130in3 plumbed into the =
heater circuit behind the ~15in2 left cheek inlet.
> > >> The diffuser was designed to hopefully be more efficient in a =
climb configuration.
> > >> So the total radiators frontal area has been increased by 50% =
while the air in has increased 75%.
> > >> The unknown is that being in the heater circuit we don't know the =
total flow through the secondary rad compared with the primary rad.
> > >>
> > >> Testing on the ground yield an approx 15-20C drop in coolant =
after 30mins of 1800rpm idle.
> > >>
> > >> Flight Testing Results the next day: OAT 21C (70F)
> > >> Coolant Temps max=E2=80=99d on climb at 93C (200F) down 15C on =
highest Flight 3 climb temp with a 4C higher OAT.
> > >> Coolant Temps dropped to 83C (181F) as speed got to 147 KIAS =
(Cruise is published as 192 KIAS but we haven=E2=80=99t expanded the =
envelope to date)
> > >> I=E2=80=99m very pleased with this result.
> > >>
> > >> Oil Temps are high. I would much prefer them below 80C (176F)
> > >> I=E2=80=99ll be interested to see what oil temp does as speed =
rises, but my hunch is it needs more air (increase air to oil cooler =
from a diameter of 77mm to 100mm)
> > >>
> > >> Slow Speed Tests:
> > >> Vs Clean Stall is at 67 KIAS row 2011 (Glasair claims 70 Knots at =
Gross)
> > >> Vso Full Flap Stall is at 57 KIAS row 2062 & 2083 (Glasair claims =
59 Knots at Gross)
> > >>
> > >> Cheers
> > >>
> > >> Steve Izett
> > >> Perth Western Australia
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
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