X-Junk-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=2.3 cv=H+OlPNQi c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=Dq62jgT1N2Gr5Wli4K15NA==:117 a=jpOVt7BSZ2e4Z31A5e1TngXxSK0=:19 a=x7bEGLp0ZPQA:10 a=Fee85h93u3AA:10 a=MeAgGD-zjQ4A:10 a=MNcWcdS7FqMA:10 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=pGLkceISAAAA:8 a=7g1VtSJxAAAA:8 a=vW8pjZ1w23xvK7BR-QsA:9 a=4DrThijVUE1NeviU:21 a=FN4dQbdVzDD2NIDL:21 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=Qa1je4BO31QA:10 a=gvSQh4r-fQ0A:10 a=84R29ISO9WP2jhQE38EA:9 a=G4nly7HKAnEczHEV:21 a=dNAw8_Bx1AzZ4Ukx:21 a=mZ9y-ZKUKgvxMSGG:21 a=Urk15JJjZg1Xo0ryW_k8:22 a=grOzbf7U_OpcSX4AJOnl:22 From: "lehanover lehanover@aol.com" Received: from sonic313-14.consmr.mail.bf2.yahoo.com ([74.6.133.124] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.2.14) with ESMTPS id 13140308 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 04 Nov 2019 14:22:16 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=74.6.133.124; envelope-from=lehanover@aol.com DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=aol.com; s=a2048; t=1572895319; bh=crUj6muzz7Cmq0DCL1BWtQNEoRUZI6/SHdjIl+md2XA=; h=Date:From:To:In-Reply-To:References:Subject:From:Subject; b=LhWfrty2sNRcV0MjUMZtmU7xeYzHNSB6iCr1+0ZvLhKN9B4YESXVdnQhZwUHBuXs6rq81NJvRIFDBP9RcnXRZa1lJEqn0okyLZksCpaKk74wmSe8vNmcu0ALsKFZKzsFFtWBLv4eFwUkk+tax96Z3DYg/pThoVLfQzh9zfs7rEN+drr5o9livvmXwBkgaD7l/fD8KGNM9uMcR5zR8pZ425Z/txYgrq3gXdxta4KFbeGY5gf+qX4Jo2kqxfkRNoXUYRBWUKFVBYldnZuFKda3fRGPn4Vuhbt6ryhcK15+DwcCOlNpMJ4R1zIS9Q9BXcWFTQuNOMSk31PmhTlfGJcFCw== X-YMail-OSG: XdEQvcsVM1mKAzahFawrnrynmXNFHjuD.l6KcTio8b9FXoffhSVObfOMexqugcL NXVG7WlrP7yts22gNYfquTu_LGFrGh.CMU.L9Y6CdPWn.WsskyHwLeqIyFmFZqbsjPxy7ArFj1x4 mHFz2ivt0irKqYonP3ixcd5krV08nkp.iQv2gPqtl5a48bHcNlvEhxJ1PojeHYKqZszCdR2sQVwn Zk200pu3GBe9fX_P_c_7.YWhBIeMnC.a1l1CzzzMSWaYyVDApfm5556gNpuzuVOjZwmhHNqyEC37 8TXCdMkAqVmYfUc5eSwRrsvhRNXejFWft3xNysa2XmQZJc4eP3c_w6AO3KcbjiNlvK.V.Rfp6oyO GaEazJdHW5YIj0nXas.vxb8Uee4rYvsLGR2I7bfgm4N09YLcRXWNU7Naa4vGoc10szuzdTxHNJ9z yAIYa9L4t0oy8dYakrRJYfIbn44ir4pDOep8rlz1Hum0KIkVLKILQyx7BrBdcURoraEpuyXjkjDj Vd1_NKExd3vpP5EAWJ4IspnKKuMaA8yobcCtPSiV7X7Lyd0q75mRzo35wl6SlEc1nhwcDyM4so4n YoCwvdmIDX7qrHLU15H5784JM0GjBFqz40OWCR1HbtvGdHYI.Pp_Cj.fFcwZutzPJN4YkRkX0hqw AX5VwrKeOA_zxMZhzL64icl3ewF6LKceAkuC1wBjj2NjPNRKKc2OmrY74dI32rSnfShs0ediJvXd TLx56UBzHr6t0R2wAMcUSGz0O_52NphzaLTAcyC3vgp204KgfsROZsiC_dghRW209lJwVevM82im XdsoSdjjk35C.crGm5klcvnE_uAa9hSRXg36WiNC.K97oXMFC.GxdSm_WzJ3bzzrq2E1sEuDW58Y FNNWNRsgGKRsXBoJegnoAY2IQTj_VhPFJBH3wSJ0742uUN0iiCi9SQIjJm5e8taMpNGvhnTr19h6 3fk8xRofDqwrL84.outDd38_VR0jYegnW0bWRvJzAIaB.geSRKOCWHAf0tZmVEqjNvox.nCeTIdm Z8nT0WrbMbsENBgeLxgML4cwpytbLXnyGD9BiJOaIBzT6iAl.1k3E0M3IAL8emptDV3MSFCKKOT. 8kWVVLx2AcnggXQeeVmyG9xfI7nOrrzqi6mS3OGmGIWCVojSGs78ovbdTbVerD6ZirAVpEGBOBOI 7Z4OtIMifwXlcvKsVzlSVqwEk2RR4m_SbTMlktUzvUkqRFDcbiVfVJjqiO9ftwS1Ug09m8Av7puS I0e3pf6EiqL3pfXqDYwWdCH6eKve25MairAERqSCtRXyHEws2ThObhiYdFuCeDq6fbjF1Kkm. Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic313.consmr.mail.bf2.yahoo.com with HTTP; Mon, 4 Nov 2019 19:21:59 +0000 Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2019 19:21:55 +0000 (UTC) To: flyrotary@lancaironline.net Message-ID: <103299857.661395.1572895315219@mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Update on Glasair Cooling in Phase #1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_661394_1176280061.1572895315216" X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.14638 aolloki Apache-HttpClient/4.5.7 (Java/1.8.0_144) Content-Length: 12684 ------=_Part_661394_1176280061.1572895315216 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The oil temp tracks the power output. Hotter rotor means hotter oil. Not a = solid connection to water temps but some. Oil temps above 160 degrees cost = power. Lynn E. Hanover In a message dated 11/4/2019 9:28:29 AM Eastern Standard Time, flyrotary@la= ncaironline.net writes: Steve, If all your exchangers dump into the cowl then the increased flow / pressur= e through the coolant exchangers may be limiting air flow through the oil c= ooler.=20 Bobby -----Original Message-----From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary= @lancaironline.net] Sent: Sunday, November 03, 2019 3:42 PMTo: Rotary motor= s in aircraftSubject: [FlyRotary] Re: Update on Glasair Cooling in Phase #1 Sorry Matt, I just realised I hadn=E2=80=99t mentioned the actual oil temps= .Highest in climb were 114C (237F) settling back to 110C this is 10C higher= than previous flight?? OAT was up 4C ~7FI would have expected a symbiotic = relationship between oil and water temps. Lower coolant yielding lower oil = temps.This is troubling me, Prior to this flight I noticed oil level down o= n the stick. Its always been very consistently full=C2=A0 with no signs of = leaks etc. (Standard Renesis pan)It=E2=80=99s running Mobile 1 and measurin= g the oil entering the engine after cooler and filter. Steve > On 3 Nov 2019, at 11:35 pm, Matt Boiteau mattboiteau@gmail.com wrote:> > Coolant looks great. Are you running a t-stat= ?> What are the oil temps when you say "high"? Synthetic? Weight? Oil pan o= r inlet temp location?> > This is my opinion, with synthetic 20W50 at oil p= ain temps, I'd be okay during the climb with 240F and hopefully after some = air speed it drops down under 220F.> > I do agree you might have to open up= to 100mm (4 inch) for oil cooler.> > - Matt Boiteau>> On 2019-11-03 8:31:4= 7 AM, Stephen Izett stephen.izett@gmail.com w= rote:>> >> Hi there people >> >> Over the past month I have updated the coo= ling system of the Glasair Super II RG in order to continue our phase 1 tes= ting. >> >> The previous setup had 540in3 two pass behind the ~20in2 unmodi= fied right cheek inlet. >> We hadn=E2=80=99t included the left cheek as it = was so difficult to get the air across to the right hand side diffuser. >> = The Oil is 250in3 behind a 8in2 under spinner inlet. >> Initial testing was= marginal with OAT below 20C (68F) >> So having established that cooling wa= s rather marginal above 68F I went for the planned upgrade path which inclu= ded >> installing a secondary bike radiator of 130in3 plumbed into the heat= er circuit behind the ~15in2 left cheek inlet. >> The diffuser was designed= to hopefully be more efficient in a climb configuration. >> So the total r= adiators frontal area has been increased by 50% while the air in has increa= sed 75%. >> The unknown is that being in the heater circuit we don't know t= he total flow through the secondary rad compared with the primary rad. >> >= > Testing on the ground yield an approx 15-20C drop in coolant after 30mins= of 1800rpm idle. >> >> Flight Testing Results the next day: OAT 21C (70F) = >> Coolant Temps max=E2=80=99d on climb at 93C (200F) down 15C on highest F= light 3 climb temp with a 4C higher OAT. >> Coolant Temps dropped to 83C (1= 81F) as speed got to 147 KIAS (Cruise is published as 192 KIAS but we haven= =E2=80=99t expanded the envelope to date) >> I=E2=80=99m very pleased with = this result. >> >> Oil Temps are high. I would much prefer them below 80C (= 176F) >> I=E2=80=99ll be interested to see what oil temp does as speed rise= s, but my hunch is it needs more air (increase air to oil cooler from a dia= meter of 77mm to 100mm) >> >> Slow Speed Tests: >> Vs Clean Stall is at 67 = KIAS row 2011 (Glasair claims 70 Knots at Gross) >> Vso Full Flap Stall is = at 57 KIAS row 2062 & 2083 (Glasair claims 59 Knots at Gross) >> >> Cheers = >> >> Steve Izett >> Perth Western Australia >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- = >> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >> Archive and UnSub: http://mail.la= ncaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html=20 --Homepage:=C2=A0 http://www.flyrotary.com/Archive and UnSub:=C2=A0 http://= mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html=C2=A0=C2=A0 --Homepage:=C2=A0 http://www.flyrotary.com/Archive and UnSub:=C2=A0 http:/= /mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html ------=_Part_661394_1176280061.1572895315216 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
The oil temp tracks the power output. Hotter rotor means hotter oil. Not a solid connection to water temps but some. Oil temps above 160 degrees cost power.
Lynn E. Hanover

In a message dated 11/4/2019 9:28:29 AM Eastern Standard Time, flyrotary@lancaironline.net writes:

Steve,

If all your exchangers dump into the cowl then the increased flow / pressure through the coolant exchangers may be limiting air flow through the oil cooler.

Bobby

-----Original Message-----
From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]
Sent: Sunday, November 03, 2019 3:42 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Update on Glasair Cooling in Phase #1

Sorry Matt, I just realised I hadn’t mentioned the actual oil temps.
Highest in climb were 114C (237F) settling back to 110C this is 10C higher than previous flight?? OAT was up 4C ~7F
I would have expected a symbiotic relationship between oil and water temps. Lower coolant yielding lower oil temps.
This is troubling me, Prior to this flight I noticed oil level down on the stick. Its always been very consistently full  with no signs of leaks etc. (Standard Renesis pan)
It’s running Mobile 1 and measuring the oil entering the engine after cooler and filter.

Steve

> On 3 Nov 2019, at 11:35 pm, Matt Boiteau mattboiteau@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
>
> Coolant looks great. Are you running a t-stat?
> What are the oil temps when you say "high"? Synthetic? Weight? Oil pan or inlet temp location?
>
> This is my opinion, with synthetic 20W50 at oil pain temps, I'd be okay during the climb with 240F and hopefully after some air speed it drops down under 220F.
>
> I do agree you might have to open up to 100mm (4 inch) for oil cooler.
>
> - Matt Boiteau
>> On 2019-11-03 8:31:47 AM, Stephen Izett stephen.izett@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
>>
>> Hi there people
>>
>> Over the past month I have updated the cooling system of the Glasair Super II RG in order to continue our phase 1 testing.
>>
>> The previous setup had 540in3 two pass behind the ~20in2 unmodified right cheek inlet.
>> We hadn’t included the left cheek as it was so difficult to get the air across to the right hand side diffuser.
>> The Oil is 250in3 behind a 8in2 under spinner inlet.
>> Initial testing was marginal with OAT below 20C (68F)
>> So having established that cooling was rather marginal above 68F I went for the planned upgrade path which included
>> installing a secondary bike radiator of 130in3 plumbed into the heater circuit behind the ~15in2 left cheek inlet.
>> The diffuser was designed to hopefully be more efficient in a climb configuration.
>> So the total radiators frontal area has been increased by 50% while the air in has increased 75%.
>> The unknown is that being in the heater circuit we don't know the total flow through the secondary rad compared with the primary rad.
>>
>> Testing on the ground yield an approx 15-20C drop in coolant after 30mins of 1800rpm idle.
>>
>> Flight Testing Results the next day: OAT 21C (70F)
>> Coolant Temps max’d on climb at 93C (200F) down 15C on highest Flight 3 climb temp with a 4C higher OAT.
>> Coolant Temps dropped to 83C (181F) as speed got to 147 KIAS (Cruise is published as 192 KIAS but we haven’t expanded the envelope to date)
>> I’m very pleased with this result.
>>
>> Oil Temps are high. I would much prefer them below 80C (176F)
>> I’ll be interested to see what oil temp does as speed rises, but my hunch is it needs more air (increase air to oil cooler from a diameter of 77mm to 100mm)
>>
>> Slow Speed Tests:
>> Vs Clean Stall is at 67 KIAS row 2011 (Glasair claims 70 Knots at Gross)
>> Vso Full Flap Stall is at 57 KIAS row 2062 & 2083 (Glasair claims 59 Knots at Gross)
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> Steve Izett
>> Perth Western Australia
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --


--
  
--
------=_Part_661394_1176280061.1572895315216--