X-Junk-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=2.3 cv=Cs7BjUwD c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=lXR3dTetu2/ryWmrkMO6vQ==:117 a=z17aS9H4/57wGN5zbfQ0rA==:17 a=3JhidrIBZZsA:10 a=DAwyPP_o2Byb1YXLmDAA:9 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=pGLkceISAAAA:8 a=7g1VtSJxAAAA:8 a=JRJjVVG6KmqEUvjYU3IA:9 a=72-SNfC0FxRozg6b:21 a=0-siPSviK1zmVbPw:21 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=KJFYFJxGBmYA:10 a=oxW9Ij5ZZRQA:10 a=Qa1je4BO31QA:10 a=gvSQh4r-fQ0A:10 a=yMhMjlubAAAA:8 a=SSmOFEACAAAA:8 a=nuYH9IAO2NritQ7XZZ8A:9 a=lDNl2lIEhZKvKMjIUR5gOGDH5rM=:19 a=BYnQBEfcjETscjYB:21 a=qEN8LZjIo6UsG0jb:21 a=sWMd30oBf5SLIL1D:21 a=gKO2Hq4RSVkA:10 a=UiCQ7L4-1S4A:10 a=hTZeC7Yk6K0A:10 a=frz4AuCg-hUA:10 a=Urk15JJjZg1Xo0ryW_k8:22 a=grOzbf7U_OpcSX4AJOnl:22 a=Z5ABNNGmrOfJ6cZ5bIyy:22 a=UDnyf2zBuKT2w-IlGP_r:22 From: "Patrick patrick@hoffmann1.net" Received: from mout.perfora.net ([74.208.4.197] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.2.10) with ESMTPS id 12134069 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sun, 20 Jan 2019 12:24:16 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=74.208.4.197; envelope-from=patrick@hoffmann1.net Received: from LXUSMCH1KYZHM2 ([204.116.175.107]) by mrelay.perfora.net (mreueus003 [74.208.5.2]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0LuNEX-1hBHic36KF-011hC6 for ; Sun, 20 Jan 2019 18:23:58 +0100 To: "'Rotary motors in aircraft'" References: In-Reply-To: Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Please take my Dad, Thomas Phy off of this list. Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2019 12:23:57 -0500 Message-ID: <001801d4b0e4$ed958c20$c8c0a460$@hoffmann1.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0019_01D4B0BB.04C131D0" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Thread-Index: AQKd1B3FPptyRjMN3hKDDhOt72kT1KQmIYMg Content-Language: en-us X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:u6A4mBEqTZG8nN5shM7kB5ADox7/totK511w+L/ziEK5Igo4+n8 r0MlUs/81wbcxW822J79NPcfia+qyYhU6EZQGhmKV4MroR+mZiQX6S+SyEiqDKN4HdKIO4Z XQWfdo7ko/ahu3IrJznFhjavVPzWznkOaRiyJ2dHz/Bi4NXnc31QJowW20LK9wPiADNKqgJ xYTI2nbAJqYAED2SA1oHQ== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:i5jiLrFEV04=:Za2V1X+N9/uYRIKrXvqg/5 OndrNS/V6PBtyawQ9dQ+tyhlyoluILYETEr1z6NUhTYF/+wFPNC+K0tIFjjYI6AByEP5uPqjl DLbmu9DlP7QIAUB2kV4i9bnABKMn2ACkkGQST+utZTTDYNB40+6p8vbdsuzmM/UHwyQnUzUvQ n9XHpti7RhDjE1R2ptmLIdKmOk2stihk0Zehao/kHwhNvOF8OgoVO/ieX1JXEybiciLtXWSzh Zj9b8F6EVLWE8UCPTaWr2qrao6eB12nhc+7irZyoncwumB8dFGtsPUuvB4PDJtXL/sNccJ88E tIIb2fCmQFpj/DdAQrTMatK+3EqWPH5YhbyzfxNCSZrYD9DH6HI7imx0Me53oytvWU5wklcS9 2r2eInCvUv6ffexlBa1Rz48kRSBmhArjgLX2e+7FCNQC1WRtXl6nma+rCqqQa/bV8er4+xla6 ncH0dOkMHDhbCfGjLvg6w4FcGiiViL/I8KgVvmvUxo2qT0pfZdwMEM+FAW9t7DjrpvdAXq2Pl YHEKs3jBaSgVcbGfx75hk8+Ph/sPmW0BzKE7O8QX8E8PtoWAEEN2uBAv+l0Ge0P+CAzY7IjFq H4GV5BEISDH7O/vezBhtg+FPsL5a2nudzkYtf1cs5Wq+hM4MQwWa24RuDAiwqJHJhrrh85xIy bE2PT+tcWPAOR4utBEz3SHFIQvudw4Nb0xTZPH2PHFE1q0krUrD3I/6mEnvHfN/81z6neHC+k o3n63pAPr6IWEqO1peeH6C97R7yaIZ5zk/zirv/ZKtaex+ou3m6x00rgPGg= This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0019_01D4B0BB.04C131D0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Unsubscription Information Folks wishing to unsubscribe from the Lancair Mail List are asked to do = so in a private email to the list owner = . Simply say "unsubscribe LML" in = either the subject or message body and it will be handled upon receipt. = Be sure that the message is either sent from the subscribed email = address, or, if that's not possible, that the actual subscription = address to be removed is included in the post as well.=20 =20 =20 From: Rotary motors in aircraft =20 Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2019 9:58 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Please take my Dad, Thomas Phy off of this list. =20 It=E2=80=99s a self-serve situation. Your Dad put himself on the list and can get off anytime he wants. Go to the source =E2=80=9CRotary motors in aircraft=E2=80=9D = flyrotary@lancaironline.net and = follow the navigation. Cheers. Nige. =20 =20 From: Rotary motors in aircraft >=20 Sent: Friday, January 18, 2019 1:18 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft > Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: gearbox drain =20 Hello, =20 Please take my Dad, Thomas Phy maxfly55@gmail.com = , off of this and all email lists. =20 Thank You, =20 Liz Finch =20 On Sun, Jan 13, 2019 at 11:58 AM Steven W. Boese SBoese@uwyo.edu = > wrote: Tracy and Neil, =20 I installed a -4 fitting at the top of both the -C drive and also the -A = drive that I converted to 3.17 to one ratio. At idle with oil at about = 50 degrees, a gauge connected to that top fitting read about 4 psi = inside the gearbox. With oil at about 180 degrees, the gauge read about = 2 psi. The 2 psi was unchanged when the engine rpm was increased to = 5000. Both gearboxes behaved the same. =20 I also installed a ball valve in the -6 drain line that I could close = immediately after shutting the engine off. Then I could disconnect the = drain line and collect the oil that was inside the gearbox. The = converted -A drive with a 3 pinion planetary contained 22 oz of oil = after shutdown while the -C drive with the 6 pinion planetary contained = 18 oz of oil. This was with the top fitting dead ended to the gauge and = not venting anything during operation. =20 The oil flow rate from the prop end of the gearbox was found to be about = 1/4 oz per minute while the total oil flow rate through the gearbox was = found to be about 90 oz per minute. This explains why installing = separate -6 drain lines to the engine did not change the behavior. = During the flow rate measurement, the oil draining from the gearbox just = after starting the engine had a lot of entrained air for a short time. =20 So the conclusion is that the gearboxes are completely filled with oil = during operation and any air initially inside them is entrained in the = oil and forced out the drain by the incoming oil. The gearbox = recommendations that I could find do not recommend running with the = components completely submerged due to the power consumed by churning = the oil and resultant generation of heat. Those sources also say that = if the gearbox is partially filled with oil but the level is too high, = the oil will foam and lubrication will be degraded if the system = circulates the oil using an external pump. In our case, it may be = better to accept the power loss and extra heat as opposed to returning a = lot of aerated oil to the engine. =20 An impeller was added to the planet carrier of the converted -A drive = but that gearbox still operated completely filled with oil. =20 The gearbox drain and the engine drain connection were increased to 1/2" = NPT and fittings drilled out to 21/32" ID were installed. 3/4" ID hose = was installed as the drain line. The drain line was close to level but = slightly down hill in operation. This reduced the gearbox internal = pressure to a value not measurable with a normal gauge. The amount of = oil inside the gearbox was measured by clamping off the drain hose = immediately after shutting down the engine, disconnecting the hose from = the engine, and then recovering the oil remaining inside the gearbox. = The gearbox was found to be completely filled with oil just as before. =20 When the -4 fitting in the top of the gearbox was connected to the = engine crankcase as a vent, the amount of oil recovered from the = gearbox after operation was now found to be about 5 to 6 oz. The = recovered oil did not appear to be foamed and its volume changed very = little upon standing for several hours. Steve Boese -- Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub: = http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html --=20 Thomas Phy President EAA Chapter 1345 Bend OR. =20 Classic Construction of Bend LLC CCB# 195733 541-306-1500 =20 ------=_NextPart_000_0019_01D4B0BB.04C131D0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Uns= ubscription Information

Fol= ks wishing to unsubscribe from the Lancair Mail List = are asked to do so in a private email to the list = owner. Simply say "unsubscribe LML" in either the = subject or message body and it will be handled upon receipt. Be sure = that the message is either sent from the subscribed email address, or, = if that's not possible, that the actual subscription address to be = removed is included in the post as well. 

 

 

From: Rotary motors in aircraft = <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Sunday, January 20, = 2019 9:58 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft = <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Subject: [FlyRotary] = Please take my Dad, Thomas Phy off of this = list.

 

It=E2=80=99s = a self-serve situation.

Your Dad put = himself on the list and can get off anytime he wants.

Go to the source =E2=80=9CRotary motors in = aircraft=E2=80=9D flyrotary@lancaironline.net and follow the navigation.

Cheers.

Nige.

 

 

From: = Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Friday, January 18, 2019 1:18 AM
To: = Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: gearbox drain

 

Please take my Dad, Thomas Phy maxfly55@gmail.com, off of this = and all email lists.

 

Thank = You,

 

Liz = Finch

 

On = Sun, Jan 13, 2019 at 11:58 AM Steven W. Boese SBoese@uwyo.edu <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:

Tracy and Neil,

 

I installed a -4 fitting at the top of both the -C = drive and also the -A drive that I converted to 3.17 to one ratio.  = At idle with oil at about 50 degrees, a gauge connected to that top = fitting read about 4 psi inside the gearbox.  With oil at about 180 = degrees, the gauge read about 2 psi.  The 2 psi was unchanged when = the engine rpm was increased to 5000.  Both gearboxes behaved the = same.

 

I also installed a ball valve in the -6 drain line = that I could close immediately after shutting the engine off.  Then = I could disconnect the drain line and collect the oil that was inside = the gearbox.  The converted -A drive with a 3 pinion planetary = contained 22 oz of oil after shutdown while the -C drive with the 6 = pinion planetary contained 18 oz of oil.  This was with the top = fitting dead ended to the gauge and not venting anything during = operation.

 

The oil flow rate from the prop end of the gearbox = was found to be about 1/4 oz per minute while the total oil flow rate = through the gearbox was found to be about 90 oz per minute.  This = explains why installing separate -6 drain lines to the engine did not = change the behavior.  During the flow rate measurement, the oil = draining from the gearbox just after starting the engine had a lot of = entrained air for a short time.

 

So the conclusion is that the gearboxes are = completely filled with oil during operation and any air initially inside = them is entrained in the oil and forced out the drain by the incoming = oil.   The gearbox recommendations that I could find do not = recommend running with the components completely submerged due to the = power consumed by churning the oil and resultant generation of = heat.  Those sources also say that if the gearbox is partially = filled with oil but the level is too high, the oil will foam and = lubrication will be degraded if the system circulates the oil using an = external pump.  In our case, it may be better to accept the power = loss and extra heat as opposed to returning a lot of aerated oil to the = engine.

 

An impeller was added to the planet carrier of the = converted -A drive but that gearbox still operated completely filled = with oil.

 

The gearbox drain and the engine drain connection = were increased to 1/2" NPT and fittings drilled out to 21/32" = ID were installed.  3/4" ID hose was installed as the drain = line.  The drain line was close to level but slightly down hill in = operation.  This reduced the gearbox internal pressure to a = value not measurable with a normal gauge.  The amount of oil inside = the gearbox was measured by clamping off the drain hose immediately = after shutting down the engine, disconnecting the hose from the engine, = and then recovering the oil remaining inside the gearbox.  The = gearbox was found to be completely filled with oil just as = before.

 

When the -4 fitting in the top of the gearbox was = connected to the engine crankcase as a vent,  the amount of oil = recovered from the gearbox after operation was now found to be about 5 = to 6 oz.  The recovered oil did not appear to be foamed and its = volume changed very little upon standing for several = hours.


Steve Boese

=

--
Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
Archive and = UnSub:   http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.h= tml



--

Thomas Phy

President

EAA = Chapter 1345

Bend = OR.

 

Classic Construction of Bend = LLC

CCB# = 195733

541-306-1500

 

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