X-Junk-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=2.3 cv=cpHlbGwi c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=Y+b99WSDUBXwRGtcog24Ag==:117 a=x7bEGLp0ZPQA:10 a=Cs6MGpLMSVwA:10 a=3JhidrIBZZsA:10 a=pGLkceISAAAA:8 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=7g1VtSJxAAAA:8 a=AmIkWmYoGQaysG_lV2gA:9 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=KJFYFJxGBmYA:10 a=Qa1je4BO31QA:10 a=gvSQh4r-fQ0A:10 a=wn4LMc2zVwpUsDT-LrYA:9 a=zZiBmbB_z5SldEtR:21 a=Urk15JJjZg1Xo0ryW_k8:22 a=grOzbf7U_OpcSX4AJOnl:22 From: "Max maxfly55@gmail.com" Received: from mail-oi1-f172.google.com ([209.85.167.172] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.2.10) with ESMTPS id 12111817 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Thu, 17 Jan 2019 09:48:18 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.167.172; envelope-from=maxfly55@gmail.com Received: by mail-oi1-f172.google.com with SMTP id a77so6317826oii.5 for ; Thu, 17 Jan 2019 06:48:18 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=JCflYHvfRedaanH2xSI28ZUn5oxDyte6LYTy+3Hf5qA=; b=F8P7gGCcmeioY25XT+BrFFC8EUgeOQtC/+hTyAk5QHXAklKWRZqbg40bgQOFKucaHw Vf0Gri0OgEubKhcChKVqnNNyOOvXC7zXD6uSGpS0h837JO3Nda3gtYvQkqgIJgw/2bhb TxAYz2uodkBr3nFS9YUfVR4mKcqo5Oi3G2Sok1YxPXvJWDb5ztngfp+FyMoQA5cx3uGa 8VAfjVrRartA/hVaDEoVYwQPITriRM85Y1oF2byztbWtqj1IDA3if4fOgDAC0ic/hEsO eiFD3w+XLsB/g42M93DkkoBv3qsG0tVFKRm3UX4YO6gy9UOkFBiuhExb8UwwCrnr1rZZ CL5Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=JCflYHvfRedaanH2xSI28ZUn5oxDyte6LYTy+3Hf5qA=; b=CHT1+qt0MCH6JOljud5EoVbiJ0m+aK69YgCLcu4HsDKL+pd2UrYXh5XsL1CDGqxpTQ 2lQAJmKuWClJCpRXCwAGbBeFyeWvHEIEldcw76JrdgdtKS2IpW/hcwRfJp+laEvaNpGy VvRIOrBdA9Uyb5w0OIYAyjmAcTSY8IK6258rKSv+ktP1LJ3JBx2SKk20+qwDbHgnJOp+ yFqbPSrPlEikm02JMJUUnYXFHOMe9dmwLMhBLMG4OQkdq2G+0lxlHj949sObeq1UavXv VlKmVxNJdILFvV9cWBy5rKsTvIKl5AlAoHmrmtjXnTnzecHGxGUwjP04DtRN7pPPekTc QnKg== X-Gm-Message-State: AJcUukdHoQZY/Qn4+EoMKrEiA37Ss5bYpEEMkrqdkQDc0zstVeRN+cXQ JqHF1geVWP8lQmVwwNG3Mboisd6YS+bDfwrCu2lWFg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ALg8bN7yL05C1cexA24ApLfu9Ila9NmheJop5uLk6kRA4h6YdYUwr7tPgOc+OY5uKdLckHOgP+6RUlK8iRq9Gq8fUmY= X-Received: by 2002:aca:544:: with SMTP id 65mr682282oif.302.1547736480342; Thu, 17 Jan 2019 06:48:00 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2019 09:47:48 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] gearbox drain To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000001de877057fa87b82" --0000000000001de877057fa87b82 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hello, Please take my Dad, Thomas Phy maxfly55@gmail.com, off of this and all email lists. Thank You, Liz Finch On Sun, Jan 13, 2019 at 11:58 AM Steven W. Boese SBoese@uwyo.edu < flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: > Tracy and Neil, > > > I installed a -4 fitting at the top of both the -C drive and also the -A > drive that I converted to 3.17 to one ratio. At idle with oil at about 50 > degrees, a gauge connected to that top fitting read about 4 psi inside the > gearbox. With oil at about 180 degrees, the gauge read about 2 psi. The 2 > psi was unchanged when the engine rpm was increased to 5000. Both > gearboxes behaved the same. > > > I also installed a ball valve in the -6 drain line that I could close > immediately after shutting the engine off. Then I could disconnect the > drain line and collect the oil that was inside the gearbox. The converted > -A drive with a 3 pinion planetary contained 22 oz of oil after shutdown > while the -C drive with the 6 pinion planetary contained 18 oz of oil. > This was with the top fitting dead ended to the gauge and not venting > anything during operation. > > > The oil flow rate from the prop end of the gearbox was found to be about > 1/4 oz per minute while the total oil flow rate through the gearbox was > found to be about 90 oz per minute. This explains why installing separate > -6 drain lines to the engine did not change the behavior. During the flow > rate measurement, the oil draining from the gearbox just after starting the > engine had a lot of entrained air for a short time. > > > So the conclusion is that the gearboxes are completely filled with oil > during operation and any air initially inside them is entrained in the oil > and forced out the drain by the incoming oil. The gearbox recommendations > that I could find do not recommend running with the components completely > submerged due to the power consumed by churning the oil and resultant > generation of heat. Those sources also say that if the gearbox is > partially filled with oil but the level is too high, the oil will foam and > lubrication will be degraded if the system circulates the oil using an > external pump. In our case, it may be better to accept the power loss and > extra heat as opposed to returning a lot of aerated oil to the engine. > > > An impeller was added to the planet carrier of the converted -A drive but > that gearbox still operated completely filled with oil. > > > The gearbox drain and the engine drain connection were increased to 1/2" > NPT and fittings drilled out to 21/32" ID were installed. 3/4" ID hose was > installed as the drain line. The drain line was close to level but > slightly down hill in operation. This reduced the gearbox internal > pressure to a value not measurable with a normal gauge. The amount of oil > inside the gearbox was measured by clamping off the drain hose immediately > after shutting down the engine, disconnecting the hose from the engine, and > then recovering the oil remaining inside the gearbox. The gearbox was > found to be completely filled with oil just as before. > > > When the -4 fitting in the top of the gearbox was connected to the engine > crankcase as a vent, the amount of oil recovered from the gearbox after > operation was now found to be about 5 to 6 oz. The recovered oil did not > appear to be foamed and its volume changed very little upon standing for > several hours. > > Steve Boese > > -- > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > Archive and UnSub: > http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html > -- *Thomas Phy* *President* *EAA Chapter 1345* *Bend OR.* *Classic Construction of Bend LLC* *CCB# 195733* *541-306-1500* --0000000000001de877057fa87b82 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hello,

Please take my Dad, Thomas Phy maxfly55@gmail.com, off of this and= all email lists.

Thank You,

Liz Finch

On Sun, Jan 13, 2019 at 11:58 AM Steven W. Boese SBoese@uwyo.edu <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:

Tracy and Neil,<= /p>


I installed a -4 fitting at the top of both the -C drive and also the= -A drive that I converted to 3.17 to one ratio.=C2=A0 At idle with oil at = about 50 degrees, a gauge connected to that top fitting read about 4 psi in= side the gearbox.=C2=A0 With oil at about 180 degrees, the gauge read about 2 psi.=C2=A0 The 2 psi was unchanged whe= n the engine rpm was increased to 5000.=C2=A0 Both gearboxes behaved the sa= me.


I also installed a ball valve in the -6 drain line that I could close= immediately after shutting the engine off.=C2=A0 Then I could disconnect t= he drain line and collect the oil that was inside the gearbox.=C2=A0 The co= nverted -A drive with a 3 pinion planetary contained 22 oz of oil after shutdown while the -C drive with the 6 pinion= planetary contained 18 oz of oil.=C2=A0 This was with the top fitting dead= ended to the gauge and not venting anything during operation.


The oil flow rate from the prop end of the gearbox was found to be ab= out 1/4 oz per minute while the total oil flow rate through the gearbox was= found to be about 90 oz per minute.=C2=A0 This explains why installing sep= arate -6 drain lines to the engine did not change the behavior.=C2=A0 During the flow rate measurement, the oil d= raining from the gearbox just after starting the engine had a lot of entrai= ned air for a short time.


So the conclusion is that the gearboxes are completely filled with oi= l during operation and any air initially inside them is entrained in the oi= l and forced out the drain by the incoming oil. =C2=A0 The gearbox recommen= dations that I could find do not recommend running with the components completely submerged due to the power consumed= by churning the oil and resultant generation of heat.=C2=A0 Those sources = also say that if the gearbox is partially filled with oil but the level is = too high, the oil will foam and lubrication will be degraded if the system circulates the oil using an external pump.= =C2=A0 In our case, it may be better to accept the power loss and extra hea= t as opposed to returning a lot of aerated oil to the engine.


An impeller was added to the planet carrier of the converted -A drive but tha= t gearbox still operated completely filled with oil.


The gearbox drain and the engine drain connection were increased to 1= /2" NPT and fittings drilled out to 21/32" ID were installed. =C2= =A03/4" ID hose was installed as the drain line.=C2=A0 The drain line = was close to level but slightly down hill in operation.=C2=A0 This reduced=C2=A0the gearbox internal pressure to a value not mea= surable with a normal gauge.=C2=A0 The amount of oil inside the gearbox was= measured by clamping off the drain hose immediately after shutting down th= e engine, disconnecting the hose from the engine, and then recovering the oil remaining inside the gearbox.=C2=A0 Th= e gearbox was found to be completely filled with oil just as before.=


When the -4 fitting in the top of the gearbox was connected to the en= gine crankcase as a vent, =C2=A0the amount of oil recovered from the gearbo= x after operation was now found to be about 5 to 6 oz.=C2=A0 The recovered = oil did not appear to be foamed and its volume changed very little upon standing for several hours.


Steve Boese

--
Homepage:=C2=A0 http://www.flyrotary.com/
Archive and UnSub:=C2=A0 =C2=A0http://mail= .lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html


--
Thomas Phy
= President
EAA Chapt= er 1345
Bend OR.

Classic Construction of Bend LLC
CCB# 195733<= /i>
541= -306-1500
<= br>
--0000000000001de877057fa87b82--