Return-Path: Received: from relay04.roc.ny.frontiernet.net ([66.133.131.37] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.1.8) with ESMTP id 3071242 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Tue, 09 Mar 2004 17:27:04 -0500 Received: (qmail 23223 invoked from network); 9 Mar 2004 22:27:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO frontiernet.net) ([67.51.193.134]) (envelope-sender ) by relay04.roc.ny.frontiernet.net (FrontierMTA 2.3.6) with SMTP for ; 9 Mar 2004 22:27:03 -0000 Message-ID: <404E44C7.EFCCC990@frontiernet.net> Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 16:27:19 -0600 From: Jim Sower X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Fwd: [LML] Re: Hot Start Technique References: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------ECE18CF174AF7CD678939946" --------------ECE18CF174AF7CD678939946 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I donno' about that. Lots of different procedures depending on if engine is hot or cold or flooded. At what temp do you switch from HOT start procedures to COLD start procedures, and who tells you when to use the FLOODED procedure? My guess is that the FLOODED procedure comes into play when some poor slob uses the COLD procedure when the engine is a little warmer than he thought it was. I have an IO-360 in my Velocity and I use the same procedure ALL the time - hot, cold, flooded (which it never gets) or whatever. That way I don't have to make a lot of judgment calls around the temperature and mood of the engine or the phase of the moon.. I just assume it's hot/flooded. Like: Left Mag ON (I have "combat switches", not a key) Throttle CRACKED (from last shutdown - 1000-1100 rpm) Mixture OFF Crank engine. When engine has cranked a couple of seconds: Mixture RICH and after a second or two: Boost Pump ON Right Mag ON Engine invariably starts at some point during the procedure. All I have to do is treat it as if its hot and flooded EVERY time. When it's not, it takes maybe 3 or 4 more seconds of cranking to start. That is a small price to pay for taking all the guesswork out of everything. Regarding "dripping injectors", I plan on shutting down my rotary by shutting down the fuel pump. If I do that, there is less/no pressure in the rail when the engine stops and the injectors have much less incentive to "drip". Just a theory --- Jim S. Mark Steitle wrote: > I'm forwarding a message from the Lancair list about hot > start techniques needed for certified a/c installations. I > was curious if there are similar issues for rotary > installations. I suspect not, but thought I would ask anyway. > > Mark S. > >> The IO-360 is also used on the Mooney M20E/F/J models and >> hot starts are always an issue, especially among the pilots >> that try and follow the owners' manual's recommendation of a >> flooded start when the engine is hot. While your exact >> setup is different than on a Mooney, the procedures may work >> for you. Following is an excerpt from a post to the Mooney >> Mailing list from a year or two ago. I follow the shutdown >> and hot start procedure every single time and it always >> works. Before I was taught this many years ago, I too was >> convinced that hot starts were somehow linked to the phase >> of the moon or something even more erratic like female >> moods. With this procedure, I am as confident about the >> engine starting as I am about democrats raising taxes. >> >> COLD START PROCEDURE >> >> Master Switch On >> Throttle, prop and mixture controls full forward >> Boost pump on for 5 seconds >> Mixture to idle cutoff >> Throttle reduce to the approximate position for a 1000-1100 >> RPM idle speed >> Engage starter >> When engine fires, release starter key and firmly (but not >> rapidly) move mixture control to full rich >> After engine is running, lean mixture control out for smooth >> idle >> >> HOT START PROCEDURE >> >> Master Switch On >> DON T TOUCH THE THROTTLE, PROP OR MIXTURE CONTROLS. The >> throttle should be in the 1000-1100 RPM position from the >> previous shutdown, the mixture should be in the idle cutoff >> and the prop should be full forward. >> Engage the starter >> Expect about 15-20 blades before the engine fires >> When the engine fires, smoothly (not rapidly) move the >> mixture control to full rich >> After idling, lean the mixture for smooth operation on the >> ground and during taxi >> >> FLOODED ENGINE START PROCEDURE >> >> Master Switch On >> Throttle, prop and mixture full forward >> Boost pump on 3 seconds, then off >> Mixture to idle/cutoff >> Throttle full open >> Engage the starter >> Slowly pull the throttle back towards idle as the engine is >> turning over with the starter engaged >> When the throttle is reduced to about ½ to ¾ towards the >> idle position, the engine should fire after the throttle >> hits the position for the perfect fuel/air mixture for >> starting. >> When the engine fires, smoothly increase the mixture to full >> rich >> Bring the throttle back to the normal idle speed (1000-1100 >> RPM) >> After idling awhile, lean the mixture for smooth operations >> on the ground and during taxi >> >> RECOMMENDED ENGINE SHUTDOWN PROCEDURE FOR THE MOONEY M20E >> >> Idle the engine at 1000-1100 RPM >> Pull the mixture control to idle/cutoff from this idle speed >> >> DO NOT TOUCH THE THROTTLE. Leave it at the setting it was at >> for the >> 1000-1100 RPM idle speed used for shut down >> Ignition switch to off after the engine spools down >> Master Switch Off >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ############################################################# >> >> For archives see the LML website: http://www.lancaironline.net/maillist.html >> >> LML members receive a 10% discount at http://www.buildersbooks.com >> -- Jim Sower ... Destiny's Plaything Crossville, TN; Chapter 5 Long-EZ N83RT, Velocity N4095T --------------ECE18CF174AF7CD678939946 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I donno' about that.  Lots of different procedures depending on if engine is hot or cold or flooded.  At what temp do you switch from HOT start procedures to COLD start procedures, and who tells you when to use the FLOODED procedure?  My guess is that the FLOODED procedure comes into play when some poor slob uses the COLD procedure when the engine is a little warmer than he thought it was.

I have an IO-360 in my Velocity and I use the same procedure ALL the time - hot, cold, flooded (which it never gets) or whatever.  That way I don't have to make a lot of judgment calls around the temperature and mood of the engine or the phase of the moon..  I just assume it's hot/flooded.  Like:
Left Mag     ON    (I have "combat switches", not a key)
Throttle        CRACKED (from last shutdown - 1000-1100 rpm)
Mixture        OFF
Crank engine.  When engine has cranked a couple of seconds:
Mixture        RICH    and after a second or two:
Boost Pump    ON    Right Mag     ON
Engine invariably starts at some point during the procedure.  All I have to do is treat it as if its hot and flooded EVERY time.  When it's not, it takes maybe 3 or 4 more seconds of cranking to start.  That is a small price to pay for taking all the guesswork out of everything.

Regarding "dripping injectors", I plan on shutting down my rotary by shutting down the fuel pump.  If I do that, there is less/no pressure in the rail when the engine stops and the injectors have much less incentive to "drip".

Just a theory --- Jim S.
 

Mark Steitle wrote:

 I'm forwarding a message from the Lancair list about hot start techniques needed for certified a/c installations.  I was curious if there are similar issues for rotary installations.  I suspect not, but thought I would ask anyway.

Mark S.

The IO-360 is also used on the Mooney M20E/F/J models and hot starts are always an issue, especially among the pilots that try and follow the owners' manual's recommendation of a flooded start when the engine is hot.  While your exact setup is different than on a Mooney, the procedures may work for you.  Following is an excerpt from a post to the Mooney Mailing list from a year or two ago.  I follow the shutdown and hot start procedure every single time and it always works.  Before I was taught this many years ago, I too was convinced that hot starts were somehow linked to the phase of the moon or something even more erratic like female moods.  With this procedure, I am as confident about the engine starting as I am about democrats raising taxes.

COLD START PROCEDURE

Master Switch On
Throttle, prop and mixture controls full forward
Boost pump on for 5 seconds
Mixture to idle cutoff
Throttle reduce to the approximate position for a 1000-1100 RPM idle speed
Engage starter
When engine fires, release starter key and firmly (but not rapidly) move mixture control to full rich
After engine is running, lean mixture control out for smooth idle

HOT START PROCEDURE

Master Switch On
DON T TOUCH THE THROTTLE, PROP OR MIXTURE CONTROLS. The throttle should be in the 1000-1100 RPM position from the previous shutdown, the mixture should be in the idle cutoff and the prop should be full forward.
Engage the starter
Expect about 15-20 blades before the engine fires
When the engine fires, smoothly (not rapidly) move the mixture control to full rich
After idling, lean the mixture for smooth operation on the ground and during taxi

FLOODED ENGINE START PROCEDURE

Master Switch On
Throttle, prop and mixture full forward
Boost pump on 3 seconds, then off
Mixture to idle/cutoff
Throttle full open
Engage the starter
Slowly pull the throttle back towards idle as the engine is turning over with the starter engaged
When the throttle is reduced to about ½ to ¾ towards the idle position, the engine should fire after the throttle hits the position for the perfect fuel/air mixture for starting.
When the engine fires, smoothly increase the mixture to full rich
Bring the throttle back to the normal idle speed (1000-1100 RPM)
After idling awhile, lean the mixture for smooth operations on the ground and during taxi

RECOMMENDED ENGINE SHUTDOWN PROCEDURE FOR THE MOONEY M20E

Idle the engine at 1000-1100 RPM
Pull the mixture control to idle/cutoff from this idle speed
DO NOT TOUCH THE THROTTLE. Leave it at the setting it was at for the
1000-1100 RPM idle speed used for shut down
Ignition switch to off after the engine spools down
Master Switch Off
 
 
 
 
  

#############################################################

For archives see the LML website: http://www.lancaironline.net/maillist.html

LML members receive a 10% discount at http://www.buildersbooks.com

--
Jim Sower ... Destiny's Plaything
Crossville, TN; Chapter 5
Long-EZ N83RT, Velocity N4095T
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