X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com From: "Ernest Christley" Received: from nm7-vm3.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com ([98.136.218.210] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.2c1) with ESMTPS id 9473112 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Wed, 15 Feb 2017 17:59:07 -0500 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=98.136.218.210; envelope-from=echristley@att.net DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=att.net; s=s1024; t=1487199530; bh=lNsD4srescgkzl/5ZGFJhS1TTOqOz8x4GXEU0yeYdts=; h=Date:From:Reply-To:To:In-Reply-To:References:Subject:From:Subject; b=E2iCRbC4WMv3uCiEeBUagIT9ua2C3zbD9fi0iPGhhr0YoG9iUfaD14cNJVv6KEKr6n5HPj3fD0QDq5LTnt2CH+e2WmN7Cw4ewGW9gJ/gSYiO8M7HCD1oQ7rx8HIs6VG9W+Br0ltSpSgg8lJgTQ00MHeVaiaQZgM7MLIVotMUrvE= Received: from [98.137.12.175] by nm7.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Feb 2017 22:58:50 -0000 Received: from [98.137.12.220] by tm14.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Feb 2017 22:58:49 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1028.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Feb 2017 22:58:49 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 878111.25883.bm@omp1028.mail.gq1.yahoo.com X-YMail-OSG: Xc3CtqAVM1kx5pXYzL3aAbz_.3Q5eHwRtmcAHp5FHz8y5wpC7qsiU19ZQIiYWjP Dk2I0LkilAoZDvreAW.iw5Cs7oy7yf3NjixEv0FRAB6smEyFYeGQPn.cT_Yh_i_qETAbsA.C3EWz 8toepndR.a0Z7n8jnTHJg4czxv0EO_hmw.xokY4kQpUhFcOwG0wf_Ysb7OKTDWhJqodrSnFxjOjH _QAgHO7g9lg2z_ZXZoOg.dX8xSWAhDPxeTQWlisMnQt8kmlicdj.9inb2eEBhWepj5255MnabhYj yCUqWJEDfK9vL_lYrC4kcXuOfk.ANlPhsYZ.OBOerQURs1KQFaEKC8vyrpEw98t9Nu8G.2rJykf_ L5nP1LFilvrGmUf0i_lXYhODmsrShk3T6aCj9JF6TxQVuE9h.c1X8tuGhkWa9pRSPuWTvhnee383 PKvyIJP4g37SlFUroezkvjfHcWXmjXMkw5D.PxtFaa4bnjp2Lgxkm1vN8CCSGAZKafFl3d0AF4W2 vkYubchaNyIGHSOQN9x44BYzzklbKYEv0a1blju1AfmXByXflalwq0HKdF0XNobE- Received: from jws300022.mail.gq1.yahoo.com by sendmailws109.mail.gq1.yahoo.com; Wed, 15 Feb 2017 22:58:49 +0000; 1487199529.492 Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2017 22:58:45 +0000 (UTC) Reply-To: Ernest Christley To: Rotary motors in aircraft Message-ID: <2035200595.159556.1487199525565@mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Rotary DFI/EFI & Ign Options MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_159555_1988264462.1487199525559" Content-Length: 37111 ------=_Part_159555_1988264462.1487199525559 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Disconnected the control wire while it was running.=C2=A0 Kept running. I turned an adapter to hold=C2=A0 them concentric, drilled and tapped some = holes, then bolted the 36-1 wheel to the flywheel.=C2=A0 I caste a couple o= f mounts for the CAS from aluminum to hold them so that the limp-home mode = gave 25 degrees of advance. The EDIS coils are double ended.=C2=A0 They are set up to fire two plugs at= once.=C2=A0 You can ground one side, so that the single plug gets a double= shot.=C2=A0 The power meant for two plugs goes through one.=C2=A0 Still no= t as much ignition power as some of the CD systems, but it's free=C2=A0 :-)= =20 On Wednesday, February 15, 2017 5:44 PM, Charlie England wrote: =20 Earnest, did you test the EDIS fallback mode by actually 'failing' the M= egasquirt? Was this on a Renesis, or a 13B with a 36-1 trigger wheel? I've = been told that the EDIS requires a 36-1 wheel, which would rule it out as a= stand-alone solution for the Renesis (different wheel). =20 Charlie =20 On 2/15/2017 4:13 PM, Bobby J. Hughes wrote: =20 That mak= e sense. Sounds like a very simple solution. I don=E2=80=99t think I would = be willing to give up external fuel map trim. I like the ability to fine tu= ne F/A in different phases of flight. I=E2=80=99m sure this method would wo= rk with the MS3 unit and =E2=80=9Cfuel table blending=E2=80=9D =C2=A0 Bob= by =C2=A0 From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironlin= e.net]=20 Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2017 4:57 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Rotary DFI/EFI & Ign Options =C2=A0 Bobby, = Adding a CAS controlled EDIS-4 would just be an ignition backup. =C2=A0= The configuration I worked out was: -for ignition, the MegaSquirt cont= rolled two EDIS-4. =C2=A0If either EDIS-4 failed, I had backup. =C2=A0If th= e MS failed, the EDIS-4 would continue to run on their own in limp-home mod= e. -for fuel, the MegaSquirt controlled the normal set of 4 injectors. = =C2=A0O2 sensor feedback helped to set the tuning, but mixture was controll= ed by manifold pressure and RPM in normal operation. =C2=A0A separate, need= le-valve controlled, gravity fed line was run to the throttle body to suppl= y fuel in the event that the MS or injectors failed. =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = On Wednesday, February 15, 2017 4:44 PM, Bobby J. Hughes wrote: =C2=A0 Ernest, =C2=A0 Would this configura= tion be a single controller for fuel and coils? =C2=A0 Bobby =C2=A0 = From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]=20 Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2017 4:41 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Rotary DFI/EFI & Ign Options =C2=A0 Wired= up a Fueltech ECU or the Megasquirt? =C2=A0 I have, in fact, had a= well running aircraft rotary engine with a MegaSquirt, and may again in th= e not to distant future. =C2=A0 Bobby, for a secondary CAS, wire up= a Ford EDIS-4 ignition controller to the trailing plugs. =C2=A0You don't e= ven have to provide it with a control input. =C2=A0It's limp-home mode is 1= 0 degrees of advance. Set the CAS to have 15 degrees, and your set. =C2= =A0 On Wednesday, February 15, 2017 4:24 PM, Neil Unger wrote: =C2=A0 Gents,=C2=A0 There is no doubt as I c= ontinually say that tracy's gear and=20 indeed tracy was 20 years ahead of his time.=C2=A0 Being computer illitera= te=20 I rely on others to present something like an ECU in a ready to go=20 format.=C2=A0 For that reason I have invested in the Fueltech ECU, but yet= to=20 wire in.=C2=A0 IS there any on this forum that has already done this? Neil= . =20 =20 On 2/16/2017 8:14 AM, Bobby J. Hughes wrote: > I did a little MegaSquirt 3 research after Tracy's post. Charlie's been = telling me for years he though the Megasquirt would be a good solution. It= looks very usable for our application. The current firmware and feature se= t supports 4 rotor, 3 rotor, older 2 rotor and Renesis engines. For the Re= nesis using the stock trigger wheel, a secondary CAS for a second ECU can = be positioned up to 20 degrees offset from the stock location. This is a cu= rrent firmware limitation. Using a rotary compatible MegaSquirt wheel, eac= h CAS position is fully programmable. They don't support an overall "Fuel M= ap Trim" feature using an external potentiometer. However they have a "Fue= l Table Blending" feature that should accomplish the same thing. The MS3 s= upports two independent Fuel Tables and you can use an external potentiomet= er to adjust a bending of the tables. A balance would need to be achieved= =C2=A0 allowing either controller to provide full rich fuel as well as lea= n cruise. My range would be 12.5:1 to 15.8:1. May be doable. > > Bobby > (love my EC3 but would like a second CAS) > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] > Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2017 3:21 PM > To: Rotary motors in aircraft > Subject: [FlyRotary] Rotary DFI/EFI & Ign Options > > Bill, Tracy and others, > > I should have added that I spoke with Ross about using his system on the= rotary just last week so, I suspect his comment was accurate...unless he = was juiced up on his morning coffee as I like to be!=C2=A0 I also suspect T= racy is making a very good point with the MegaSquirt system.=C2=A0 Challen= ging maybe, difficult sure, yet in no way impossible.=C2=A0 I worked in com= bustion at GM for over a decade and am an instrumentation specialist from = my graduate school days in physical science so I have a few points of confi= dence to draw from.=C2=A0 Open source software has become a huge advantage = to the RC users so, I suspect the same will be true with MegaSquirt despit= e that aviation is likely to represent a small segment for their audience. > > Rick > > -- > Homepage:=C2=A0 http://www.flyrotary.com/ > Archive and UnSub:=C2=A0 http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotar= y/List.html > =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=20 > -- > Homepage:=C2=A0 http://www.flyrotary.com/ > Archive and UnSub:=C2=A0 http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotar= y/List.html =20 =20 =20 -- Homepage:=C2=A0 http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub:=C2=A0 http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/= List.html =C2=A0 =20 =20 =20 =20 ------=_Part_159555_1988264462.1487199525559 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Disconnected the con= trol wire while it was running.  Kept running.

I= turned an adapter to hold  them concentric, drilled and tapped some h= oles, then bolted the 36-1 wheel= to the flywheel.  I caste a couple of mounts for the CAS from aluminu= m to hold them so that the limp-home mode gave 25 degrees of advance.

<= span id=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1485704038359_378846">
The EDIS coils are double ended.  They ar= e set up to fire two plugs at once.  You can ground one side, so that = the single plug gets a double shot.  The power meant for two plugs goe= s through one.  Still not as much ignition power as some of the CD sys= tems, but it's free  :-)


On Wednesday, February 15, 2017 5:44= PM, Charlie England <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
<= /div>

=20 =20 =20
Earnest, did you test the E= DIS fallback mode by actually 'failing' the Megasquirt? Was this on a Renesis, or a 13B with a 36-1 trigger wheel? I've been told that the EDIS requires a 36-1 wheel, which would rule it out as a stand-alone solution for the Renesis (different wheel).

Charlie

On 2/15/2017 4:13 PM, Bobby J. Hughes wrote:
=20 =20
That make sense. Sounds like a very simple solution. I don=E2=80=99t think I would be willing to give up external fuel map trim. I like the ability to fine tune F/A in different phases of flight. I=E2=80=99m sure this method would work with the MS3 un= it and =E2=80=9Cfuel table blending=E2=80=9D
=20
 
=20
Bobby
=20
 
=20
From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net= ]
Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2017 4:57 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Rotary DFI/EFI & Ign Options
=20
 
=20
Bobby,
=20
Adding a CAS controlled EDIS-4 would just be an ignition backup.
=20
 
=20
The configuration I worked out was:
=20
-for ignition, the MegaSquirt controlled two EDIS-4.  If either EDIS-4 failed, I had backup.  If the MS failed, the EDIS-4 would continue to run on their own in limp-home mode.
=20
-for fuel, the MegaSquirt controlled the normal set of 4 injectors.  O2 sensor feedback helped to set the tunin= g, but mixture was controlled by manifold pressure and RPM in normal operation.  A separate, needle-valve controlled, gravity fed line was run to the throttle body to supply fuel in the event that the MS or injectors failed.
=20
 
=20
 
= =20
On Wednesday, February 15, 2017 4:44 PM, Bobby J. Hughes <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:=20
 =20
Ernest,
=20
 
=20
Would this configuration be a single controller for fuel and coils?
=20
 
=20
Bobby
=20
 
=20
 
=20
Wired up a Fueltech ECU or the Megasquirt?
=20
 
=20
I have, in fact, had a well running aircraft rotary engine with a MegaSquirt, and may again in the not to distant future.
=20
 
=20
Bobby, for a secondary CAS, wire up a Ford EDIS-4 ignition controller to the trailing plugs.  You don't even have to provide it with a control input.  It's limp-home mode is 10 degrees o= f advance. Set the CAS to have 15 degrees, and your set.
=20
 
=20
 
= =20
Gents,  There is no doubt as I continually say that tracy's gear and
indeed tracy was 20 years ahead of his time.  Being computer illiterate
I rely on others to present something like an ECU in a ready to go
format.  For that reason I hav= e invested in the Fueltech ECU, but yet to
wire in.  IS there any on this forum that has already done this? Neil.


On 2/16/2017 8:14 AM, Bobby J. Hughes wrote:
> I did a little MegaSquirt 3 research after Tracy's post. Charlie's been telling me for years he though the Megasquirt would be a good solution. It looks very usable for our application. The current firmware and feature set supports 4 rotor, 3 rotor, older 2 rotor and Renesis engines. For the Renesis using the stock trigger wheel, a secondary CAS for a second ECU can be positioned up to 20 degrees offset from the stock location. This is a current firmware limitation. Using a rotary compatible MegaSquirt wheel, each CAS position is fully programmable. They don't support an overall "Fuel Map Trim" feature using an external potentiometer. However they have a "Fuel Table Blending" feature that should accomplish the same thing. The MS3 supports two independent Fuel Tables and you can use an external potentiometer to adjust a bending of the tables. A balance would need to be achieved  allowing either controller to provide full rich fuel as well as lean cruise. My range would be 12.5:1 to 15.8:1. May be doable.
>
> Bobby
> (love my EC3 but would like a second CAS)
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]
> Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2017 3:21 PM
> To: Rotary motors in aircraft
> Subject: [FlyRotary] Rotary DFI/EFI & Ign Options
>
> Bill, Tracy and others,
>
> I should have added that I spoke with Ross about using his system on the rotary just last week so, I suspect his comment was accurate...unless he was juiced up on his morning coffee as I like to be!  I also suspe= ct Tracy is making a very good point with the MegaSquirt system.  Challenging maybe, difficult sure, yet in no way impossible.  I worked in combustion at GM for over a decade and am an instrumentation specialist from my graduate school days in physical science so I have a few points of confidence to draw from.  Open source software has become a huge advantage to the RC users so, I suspect the same will be true with MegaSquirt despite that aviation is likely to represent a small segment for their audience.
>
> Rick
>
> --
> Homepage:  http://www.flyro= tary.com/
> Archive and UnSub:  http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html=
>    
> --
> Homepage:  http://www.flyro= tary.com/
> Archive and UnSub:  http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html=



--
Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.= com/
Archive and UnSub:  http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html
=20
 =20



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