X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com From: "Todd Bartrim" Received: from mail-vk0-f52.google.com ([209.85.213.52] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.1.11) with ESMTPS id 8925610 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Tue, 06 Sep 2016 21:32:32 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.213.52; envelope-from=bartrim@gmail.com Received: by mail-vk0-f52.google.com with SMTP id f76so1053666vke.0 for ; Tue, 06 Sep 2016 18:32:33 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=wjUSv6uE7qUkpTMFH1eLfatcoYRmOoKEWMJLahF4t7A=; b=FLAqnERQjDosoZp7/pLQRyJ/Ho/JjG9/eythWXkonPPP/RZfFf4FQ104+npQk1kCzn OnIFUVgiqcWNlgfY+lRQdHHO2FIj/IoK+/CfA/Fzp0KY3gZ5WEwnunA6TnaoYJbbHE6L Lo+dcevNXPhdX/c8Hp8LD/xccu4k1pJA5zBPOWVkVqcNk8lhtDg8/I/V1w5MQ1pvEdWB NNj+TlS4HQClxRSsBavfnPzfDWuv8kvbF3ZWFJABrHWAmkQcA7qNxWHjZ6crNO/Qo2MM kZlTOzOIh+SNG6zuKRzw3uKY2cUwUzAN8l5E8XJp854Wr9z15uRtQE+M2ubEZSi/Ux6I HEEg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=wjUSv6uE7qUkpTMFH1eLfatcoYRmOoKEWMJLahF4t7A=; b=lbbQ7UNtK0p/BxF8LZLOZQSc7CDby77c/Hu3oC7Ddd9umqdXMq23Ky8PYXRAVHEw72 YbdIe+JnMhuR9TOVC4XXI4r3DSEfwyfzUsxj5CpHY2tXw78LimZjCbkQVfWDtjmF8ffV lPAHkJnYLBOPyM+VYyH3vhmw2Ff4hTbLvTpKueAKdW7+TI+o3eclKpFp9dp+rR0srLgx XRa2GTGruQBD7W+XdcXcbkVFSILPtuywqLgncOE5tTPhDHcTYJ+9pQGMQ/urDDR5MUyA g+3znT6SnZpo43E5puNWq/jsiyT95dGv4Bke1uXZ8kpAfGDwCPIktadSkfgNSFyHxfRm tZ9g== X-Gm-Message-State: AE9vXwPSkx/NjQs4h4bJZhUH3JPzNbCjGnxZbI/xQ4QLiWlJiDrz7O3YanIf6v3wNLvyr3PTWzgyN30MaSBOGQ== X-Received: by 10.31.254.3 with SMTP id l3mr15094035vki.66.1473211935488; Tue, 06 Sep 2016 18:32:15 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2016 01:32:04 +0000 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Fw: Big day tomorrow ! To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=94eb2c14a0641801aa053be0e265 --94eb2c14a0641801aa053be0e265 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable A couple of hours staring at steam guages in a snow storm while over water with no auto pilot. .... Iron man in a wooden plane. Bet he has a hairy chest too =F0=9F=98=86! I'm just thinking about autopilot as I'm thinking about pulling the trigger and ordering a set of servos for my Dynon tonight. And to convince myself to do it I try to imagine myself in Max's place. I sure hope his engine problem is as simple as your long distance diagnosis. Further to that, I just installed a canister fuel filter/water separater with a water detection probe to avoid that very problem. On Tue, Sep 6, 2016, 5:17 PM Ed Anderson wrote: > Thanks, Alex > > I passed your suggestion on to Max. Have not yet heard from him whether > he checked for water in his fuel. > > Ed > > *From:* alex > *Sent:* Tuesday, September 06, 2016 4:05 PM > *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft > *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: Fw: Big day tomorrow ! > > > I don't know the construction of the falconavia wing, but if there's low > spots in the tanks eternity ribs for instance for water to gather he mig= ht > want to consider doing a few wing tank drains and moving the wings fore a= nd > aft between draining, leave to settle for 30 min between each drain. See = if > he can get more water out, minimize his chances of getting problems again > > Alex Molteno > > On Sep 6, 2016 6:16 PM, "Ed Anderson" wrote= : > >> When I had spark plug sag, the engine did not sputter, it just lost rpm >> and power. >> >> He had 14 hours with the engine running fine and after a night of heavy >> rain with it left outside (which he normally does not do) and then the >> sputtering does not start until 5 minutes after take off, sure makes it >> sound like water in the fuel to me. >> >> Ed >> >> *From:* Kelly Troyer >> *Sent:* Tuesday, September 06, 2016 12:44 PM >> *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft >> *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: Fw: Big day tomorrow ! >> >> Ed, >> I think you may have diagnosed the problem..........It does not sound >> like spark plug "SAG"...........Hope So ??............. >> >> Kelly Troyer >> >> >> >> >> >> On Tue, Sep 6, 2016 at 11:28 AM, Ed Anderson > > wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> Bummer, Max - to hear you had a problem after such a great start. >>> Grateful that >>> you made it back to the airport. >>> >>> Here is my best guess as to the problem. IF it rained all night long a= nd >>> the engine was running fine when you landed, it sure sounds like you go= t >>> water in your fuel tanks. >>> >>> Five minutes is enough to burn all the >>> uncontaminated fuel out of the lines and your fuel sump and start >>> sucking in >>> water contaminated fuel. By playing with the fuel mixture you probably >>> made >>> it rich enough (more fuel) to sort of counteract the water in the fuel. >>> >>> I would drain some fuel from each tank and check it for water - I'll be= t >>> you >>> find some. >>> >>> IF you can somehow turn off your wing tanks fuel feed and turn on the a= ux >>> tank in the cockpit (which should not have water in it), then see how i= t >>> runs. >>> >>> If you run the engine on the ground and it is the water causing the >>> problem, >>> you should use up the water in a few minutes and then it should start >>> running normally. IF that happens then, in my opinion, that increase t= he >>> odds that it was water in the fuel that caused your problem. >>> >>> I'll bet you normally keep you aircraft in the hangar when its raining. >>> IF >>> so its not uncommon when left out in the rain that rain could leak pas= t >>> old >>> hard rubber seals around your filler caps - are they located on the top >>> of >>> the wing?? >>> >>> Let me know what you find. >>> >>> Ed >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- From: (null) maximilian >>> Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2016 12:06 PM >>> To: Ed Anderson >>> Subject: Re: Big day tomorrow ! >>> >>> What could have happened? >>> it was raining all night long! >>> 5 min after takeoff it started loosening power like sputtering! >>> thank god after playing with the mixture it ran just enough to get me >>> back >>> to airport >>> very scary! I was fully loaded with fuel! >>> most likely I leave the plane here! >>> >>> max >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>> On Sep 6, 2016, at 10:52 AM, Ed Anderson >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Great going, Max - you put Lindberg to shame {:>). Onward to Iceland >>>> >>>> Ed >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- From: (null) maximilian >>>> Sent: Monday, September 05, 2016 2:04 PM >>>> To: Ed Anderson >>>> Cc: Stefan.Kohout@t-online.de ; s-kocher@hotmail.com ; dibora@sbg.at ; >>>> Karin Raab ; chuck55@optonline.net ; Joseph DiPalermo >>>> Subject: Re: Big day tomorrow ! >>>> >>>> I'm in Narsasuak Greenland after completing my most difficult Flight >>>> ever! >>>> Icing, snow, rain and fog! >>>> Mashine and pilot went through the most difficult! >>>> 5 hours 20 min total >>>> more then 2 hours in solid IFR! >>>> >>>> wunderbar! >>>> Max >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPad >>>> >>>> On Sep 4, 2016, at 3:59 PM, Ed Anderson >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Stay High and dry my friend. Let us know as soon as you get to >>>>> Greenland. >>>>> >>>>> Ed >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Max >>>>> Sent: Sunday, September 04, 2016 11:12 AM >>>>> To: eanderson@carolina.rr.com ; Stefan.Kohout@t-online.de ; >>>>> s-kocher@hotmail.com ; dibora@sbg.at ; Karin Raab ; >>>>> chuck55@optonline.net ; Joseph DiPalermo >>>>> Subject: Big day tomorrow ! >>>>> >>>>> Got my survival gear, Flieger is loaded with gas, weather looks good >>>>> tail wind >>>>> Going straight from Goose bay to Greenland 5 hours over water! >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ----- >>>>> No virus found in this message. >>>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>>>> Version: 2016.0.7442 / Virus Database: 4649/12942 - Release Date: >>>>> 09/04/16 >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ----- >>>> No virus found in this message. >>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>>> Version: 2016.0.7442 / Virus Database: 4649/12949 - Release Date: >>>> 09/05/16 >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> ----- >>> No virus found in this message. >>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>> Version: 2016.0.7442 / Virus Database: 4649/12956 - Release Date: >>> 09/06/16 >>> >>> -- >>> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >>> Archive and UnSub: >>> http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Kelly Troyer >> Dyke Delta_"Eventually" >> 13B_RD1C_EC2_EM2 >> >> No virus found in this message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 2016.0.7442 / Virus Database: 4649/12956 - Release Date: 09/06/= 16 >> > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 2016.0.7442 / Virus Database: 4649/12956 - Release Date: 09/06/1= 6 > --94eb2c14a0641801aa053be0e265 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

A couple of hours staring at steam guages in a snow storm wh= ile over water with no auto pilot. .... Iron man in a wooden plane. Bet he = has a hairy chest too =F0=9F=98=86!
=C2=A0=C2=A0 I'm just thinking about autopilot as I'm thinking abou= t pulling the trigger and ordering a set of servos for my Dynon tonight. An= d to convince myself to do it I try to imagine myself in Max's place. <= br> =C2=A0 I sure hope his engine problem is as simple as your long distance di= agnosis.
Further to that, I just installed a canister fuel filter/water separater wi= th a water detection probe to avoid that very problem.


On Tue, Sep 6, 2016, 5:17 P= M Ed Anderson <flyrotary@= lancaironline.net> wrote:
Thanks, Alex
=C2=A0
I passed your suggestion on to Max.=C2=A0 Have not yet heard from him= =20 whether he checked for water in his fuel.
=C2=A0
Ed
=C2=A0
From: alex
Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2016 4:05 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <= /div>
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Fw: Big day tomorrow !
=C2=A0

I don't know the construction of the falconavia wing, bu= t if there's=20 low spots in the tanks=C2=A0 eternity ribs for instance for water to gather= he=20 might want to consider doing a few wing tank drains and moving the wings fo= re=20 and aft between draining, leave to settle for 30 min between each drain. Se= e if=20 he can get more water out, minimize his chances of getting problems again

Alex Molteno

=C2=A0
On= Sep 6, 2016 6:16 PM, "Ed Anderson" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>= =20 wrote:
When I had spark plug sag, the engine did not sputter, it just lost = rpm=20 and power.
=C2=A0
He had 14 hours with the engine running fine and after a night of he= avy=20 rain with it left outside (which he normally does not do) and then the=20 sputtering does not start until 5 minutes after take off, sure makes it s= ound=20 like water in the fuel to me.
=C2=A0
Ed
=C2=A0
From: Kelly Troyer=20
Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2016 12:44 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Fw: Big day tomorrow !
=C2=A0
Ed,
=C2=A0 I think you may have diagnosed the problem..........It does n= ot=20 sound like spark plug "SAG"...........Hope So ??.............
=C2=A0
Kelly Troyer
=C2=A0
=C2=A0
=C2=A0
=C2=A0
=C2=A0
On Tue, Sep 6, 2016 at 11:28 AM, Ed Anderson <= span dir=3D"ltr"><flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:


Bummer,=20 Max -=C2=A0 to hear you had a problem after such a great start. Gratefu= l=20 that
you made it back to the airport.

Here is my best guess a= s to=20 the problem.=C2=A0 IF it rained all night long and
the engine was ru= nning=20 fine when you landed, it sure sounds like you got
water in your fuel= =20 tanks.

Five minutes is enough to burn all the
uncontaminated = fuel=20 out of the lines and your fuel sump and start sucking in
water=20 contaminated fuel.=C2=A0 By playing with the fuel mixture you probably= =20 made
it rich enough (more fuel) to sort of counteract the water in t= he=20 fuel.

I would drain some fuel from each tank and check it for wa= ter -=20 I'll bet you
find some.

IF you can somehow turn off your = wing=20 tanks fuel feed and turn on the aux
tank in the cockpit (which shoul= d not=20 have water in it), then see how it
runs.

If you run the engin= e on=20 the ground and it is the water causing the problem,
you should use u= p the=20 water in a few minutes and then it should start
running normally.=C2= =A0=20 IF that happens then, in my opinion, that increase the
odds that it = was=20 water in the fuel that caused your problem.

I'll bet you nor= mally=20 keep you aircraft in the hangar when its raining.=C2=A0 IF
so its no= t=20 uncommon when left out in the rain that rain=C2=A0 could leak past=20 old
hard rubber seals around your filler caps - are they located on = the=20 top of
the wing??

Let me know what you=20 find.

Ed



-----Original Message----- From: (null)= =20 maximilian
Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2016 12:06 PM
To: Ed=20 Anderson
Subject: Re: Big day tomorrow !

What could have=20 happened?
it was raining all night long!
5 min after takeoff it= =20 started loosening power like sputtering!
thank god after playing wit= h the=20 mixture it ran just enough to get me back
to airport
very scary! = I was=20 fully loaded with fuel!
most likely I leave the plane=20 here!

max

Sent from my iPad

On=20 Sep 6, 2016, at 10:52 AM, Ed Anderson <eanderson@carolina.rr.com> wrote= :

Great going,=20 Max - you put Lindberg to shame {:>).=C2=A0 Onward to=20 Iceland

Ed

-----Original Message----- From: (null)=20 maximilian
Sent: Monday, September 05, 2016 2:04 PM
To: Ed=20 Anderson
Cc: Stefan.Kohout@t-online.de ; s-kocher@hotmail.com=20 ; dibora@sbg.at ; Karin=20 Raab ; chu= ck55@optonline.net ; Joseph DiPalermo
Subject: Re:=20 Big day tomorrow !

I'm in Narsasuak Greenland after comple= ting my=20 most difficult Flight ever!
Icing, snow, rain and fog!
Mashine = and=20 pilot went through the most difficult!
5 hours 20 min total
mor= e=20 then 2 hours in solid IFR!

wunderbar!
Max

Sent from = my=20 iPad

On=20 Sep 4, 2016, at 3:59 PM, Ed Anderson <eanderson@carolina.rr.com> wrot= e:

Stay High=20 and dry my friend.=C2=A0 Let us know as soon as you get to=20 Greenland.

Ed

-----Original Message----- From:=20 Max
Sent: Sunday, September 04, 2016 11:12 AM
To: eanderson@carolina.rr.c= om ; Ste= fan.Kohout@t-online.de ; s-kocher@hotmail.com ; dibora@sbg.at ; Karin Raab ; chuck55@optonline.net ; Joseph DiPalerm= o
Subject:=20 Big day tomorrow !

Got my survival gear, Flieger is lo= aded=20 with gas, weather looks good tail wind
Going straight from Goose= bay=20 to Greenland 5 hours over=20 water!










Sent from my=20 iPhone





-----
No virus found in this=20 message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2016.0.7442 / Vir= us Database:=20 4649/12942 - Release Date:=20 09/04/16



-----
No virus f= ound=20 in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version:=20 2016.0.7442 / Virus Database: 4649/12949 - Release Date:=20 09/05/16




-----
No virus found = in=20 this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2016.0.74= 42=20 / Virus Database: 4649/12956 - Release Date: 09/06/16


=C2=A0
--
Kelly Troyer
Dyke=20 Delta_"Eventually"
13B_RD1C_EC2_EM2

No virus found in this message.
Ch= ecked by=20 AVG - www.avg.comVersion:=20 2016.0.7442 / Virus Database: 4649/12956 - Release Date:=20 09/06/16

=

No virus found in this=20 message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2016.0.7442 / Virus=20 Database: 4649/12956 - Release Date:=20 09/06/16

--94eb2c14a0641801aa053be0e265--