X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com From: "Ed Anderson" Received: from [107.14.166.225] (HELO cdptpa-oedge-vip.email.rr.com) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.1.11) with ESMTP id 8925521 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Tue, 06 Sep 2016 20:04:16 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=107.14.166.225; envelope-from=eanderson@carolina.rr.com Return-Path: Received: from [71.75.210.154] ([71.75.210.154:55400] helo=EdPC) by cdptpa-oedge01 (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 3.5.0.35861 r(Momo-dev:tip)) with ESMTP id 8A/70-16889-0795FC75; Wed, 07 Sep 2016 00:04:00 +0000 Message-ID: To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Fw: Big day tomorrow ! Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2016 20:02:21 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00C2_01D20879.93E77410" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 16.4.3528.331 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V16.4.3528.331 X-RR-Connecting-IP: 107.14.168.118:25 X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00C2_01D20879.93E77410 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_00C3_01D20879.93E77410" ------=_NextPart_001_00C3_01D20879.93E77410 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Fortunately, Bill =E2=80=93 Max has fuel injection.=20 Yes, several folks indicated that had it been a carb installation, he = would likely would not have had a sputtering engine to make it back = =E2=80=93 but a dead engine. I agree, I think his sputtering engine was reacting to a water/fuel = mixture =E2=80=93 which by enriching the mixture as he did =E2=80=93 = probably gave it just enough fuel to sputter back to a safe landing. I was not over water when it happened to me, but it almost made it = necessary to acquire a new seat cushion {) Ed From: Bill Schertz=20 Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2016 5:46 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Fw: Big day tomorrow ! Ed Is Max=E2=80=99s engine fuel injected with return flow, or a carb that = is dead ended. When you had the water problem, you were feeding a = =E2=80=98slurry=E2=80=99 of water/gas to the engine, if he has a carb = dead-ended, then the water could build up in the carb bowl with not nice = results. Bill From: Ed Anderson=20 Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2016 11:14 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Fw: Big day tomorrow ! When I had spark plug sag, the engine did not sputter, it just lost rpm = and power. He had 14 hours with the engine running fine and after a night of heavy = rain with it left outside (which he normally does not do) and then the = sputtering does not start until 5 minutes after take off, sure makes it = sound like water in the fuel to me. Ed From: Kelly Troyer=20 Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2016 12:44 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Fw: Big day tomorrow ! Ed, I think you may have diagnosed the problem..........It does not sound = like spark plug "SAG"...........Hope So ??............. Kelly Troyer On Tue, Sep 6, 2016 at 11:28 AM, Ed Anderson = wrote: Bummer, Max - to hear you had a problem after such a great start. = Grateful that you made it back to the airport. Here is my best guess as to the problem. IF it rained all night long = and the engine was running fine when you landed, it sure sounds like you = got water in your fuel tanks. Five minutes is enough to burn all the uncontaminated fuel out of the lines and your fuel sump and start = sucking in water contaminated fuel. By playing with the fuel mixture you = probably made it rich enough (more fuel) to sort of counteract the water in the = fuel. I would drain some fuel from each tank and check it for water - I'll = bet you find some. IF you can somehow turn off your wing tanks fuel feed and turn on the = aux tank in the cockpit (which should not have water in it), then see how = it runs. If you run the engine on the ground and it is the water causing the = problem, you should use up the water in a few minutes and then it should start running normally. IF that happens then, in my opinion, that increase = the odds that it was water in the fuel that caused your problem. I'll bet you normally keep you aircraft in the hangar when its = raining. IF so its not uncommon when left out in the rain that rain could leak = past old hard rubber seals around your filler caps - are they located on the = top of the wing?? Let me know what you find. Ed -----Original Message----- From: (null) maximilian Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2016 12:06 PM To: Ed Anderson Subject: Re: Big day tomorrow ! What could have happened? it was raining all night long! 5 min after takeoff it started loosening power like sputtering! thank god after playing with the mixture it ran just enough to get me = back to airport very scary! I was fully loaded with fuel! most likely I leave the plane here! max Sent from my iPad On Sep 6, 2016, at 10:52 AM, Ed Anderson = wrote: Great going, Max - you put Lindberg to shame {:>). Onward to = Iceland Ed -----Original Message----- From: (null) maximilian Sent: Monday, September 05, 2016 2:04 PM To: Ed Anderson Cc: Stefan.Kohout@t-online.de ; s-kocher@hotmail.com ; dibora@sbg.at = ; Karin Raab ; chuck55@optonline.net ; Joseph DiPalermo Subject: Re: Big day tomorrow ! I'm in Narsasuak Greenland after completing my most difficult Flight = ever! Icing, snow, rain and fog! Mashine and pilot went through the most difficult! 5 hours 20 min total more then 2 hours in solid IFR! wunderbar! Max Sent from my iPad On Sep 4, 2016, at 3:59 PM, Ed Anderson = wrote: Stay High and dry my friend. Let us know as soon as you get to = Greenland. Ed -----Original Message----- From: Max Sent: Sunday, September 04, 2016 11:12 AM To: eanderson@carolina.rr.com ; Stefan.Kohout@t-online.de ; = s-kocher@hotmail.com ; dibora@sbg.at ; Karin Raab ; = chuck55@optonline.net ; Joseph DiPalermo Subject: Big day tomorrow ! Got my survival gear, Flieger is loaded with gas, weather looks = good tail wind Going straight from Goose bay to Greenland 5 hours over water! Sent from my iPhone ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2016.0.7442 / Virus Database: 4649/12942 - Release Date: = 09/04/16 ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2016.0.7442 / Virus Database: 4649/12949 - Release Date: = 09/05/16 ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2016.0.7442 / Virus Database: 4649/12956 - Release Date: = 09/06/16=20 -- Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub: = http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html --=20 Kelly Troyer Dyke Delta_"Eventually" 13B_RD1C_EC2_EM2 No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2016.0.7442 / Virus Database: 4649/12956 - Release Date: = 09/06/16 No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2016.0.7442 / Virus Database: 4649/12956 - Release Date: = 09/06/16 ------=_NextPart_001_00C3_01D20879.93E77410 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Fortunately, Bill =E2=80=93 Max has fuel injection.
 
Yes, several folks indicated that had it been a carb installation, = he would=20 likely would not have had a sputtering engine to make it back =E2=80=93 = but a dead=20 engine.
 
I agree, I think his sputtering engine was reacting to a water/fuel = mixture=20 =E2=80=93 which by enriching the mixture as he did =E2=80=93 probably = gave it just enough fuel=20 to sputter back to a safe landing.
 
I was not over water when it happened to me, but it almost  = made it=20 necessary to acquire a new seat cushion {)
 
 
Ed
 
Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2016 5:46 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Fw: Big day tomorrow = !
 
Ed
Is Max=E2=80=99s engine fuel injected with return flow, or a carb = that is dead=20 ended.  When you had the water problem, you were feeding a = =E2=80=98slurry=E2=80=99 of=20 water/gas to the engine, if he has a carb dead-ended, then the water = could build=20 up in the carb bowl with not nice results.
Bill
 
Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2016 11:14 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Fw: Big day tomorrow = !
 
When I had spark plug sag, the engine did not sputter, it just lost = rpm and=20 power.
 
He had 14 hours with the engine running fine and after a night of = heavy=20 rain with it left outside (which he normally does not do) and then the=20 sputtering does not start until 5 minutes after take off, sure makes it = sound=20 like water in the fuel to me.
 
Ed
 
Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2016 12:44 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Fw: Big day tomorrow = !
 
Ed,
  I think you may have diagnosed the problem..........It does = not=20 sound like spark plug "SAG"...........Hope So ??.............
 
Kelly Troyer
 
 
 
 
 
On Tue, Sep 6, 2016 at 11:28 AM, Ed Anderson = <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:


Bummer,=20 Max -  to hear you had a problem after such a great start. = Grateful=20 that
you made it back to the airport.

Here is my best guess = as to=20 the problem.  IF it rained all night long and
the engine was = running=20 fine when you landed, it sure sounds like you got
water in your = fuel=20 tanks.

Five minutes is enough to burn all the
uncontaminated = fuel=20 out of the lines and your fuel sump and start sucking in
water = contaminated=20 fuel.  By playing with the fuel mixture you probably made
it = rich=20 enough (more fuel) to sort of counteract the water in the = fuel.

I would=20 drain some fuel from each tank and check it for water - I'll bet = you
find=20 some.

IF you can somehow turn off your wing tanks fuel feed and = turn on=20 the aux
tank in the cockpit (which should not have water in it), = then see=20 how it
runs.

If you run the engine on the ground and it is = the water=20 causing the problem,
you should use up the water in a few minutes = and then=20 it should start
running normally.  IF that happens then, in my = opinion, that increase the
odds that it was water in the fuel that = caused=20 your problem.

I'll bet you normally keep you aircraft in the = hangar=20 when its raining.  IF
so its not uncommon when left out in the = rain=20 that rain  could leak past old
hard rubber seals around your = filler=20 caps - are they located on the top of
the wing??

Let me know = what=20 you find.

Ed



-----Original Message----- From: = (null)=20 maximilian
Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2016 12:06 PM
To: Ed=20 Anderson
Subject: Re: Big day tomorrow !

What could have=20 happened?
it was raining all night long!
5 min after takeoff it = started=20 loosening power like sputtering!
thank god after playing with the = mixture=20 it ran just enough to get me back
to airport
very scary! I was = fully=20 loaded with fuel!
most likely I leave the plane=20 here!

max

Sent from my iPad

On=20 Sep 6, 2016, at 10:52 AM, Ed Anderson <eanderson@carolina.rr.com> = wrote:

Great going,=20 Max - you put Lindberg to shame {:>).  Onward to=20 Iceland

Ed

-----Original Message----- From: (null)=20 maximilian
Sent: Monday, September 05, 2016 2:04 PM
To: Ed=20 Anderson
Cc: Stefan.Kohout@t-online.de ; s-kocher@hotmail.com ;=20 dibora@sbg.at ; = Karin Raab=20 ; chuck55@optonline.net ; Joseph = DiPalermo
Subject: Re:=20 Big day tomorrow !

I'm in Narsasuak Greenland after = completing my=20 most difficult Flight ever!
Icing, snow, rain and fog!
Mashine = and=20 pilot went through the most difficult!
5 hours 20 min = total
more then=20 2 hours in solid IFR!

wunderbar!
Max

Sent from my=20 iPad

On=20 Sep 4, 2016, at 3:59 PM, Ed Anderson <eanderson@carolina.rr.com> = wrote:

Stay High=20 and dry my friend.  Let us know as soon as you get to=20 Greenland.

Ed

-----Original Message----- From: = Max
Sent:=20 Sunday, September 04, 2016 11:12 AM
To: eanderson@carolina.rr.com ; Stefan.Kohout@t-online.de ; s-kocher@hotmail.com=20 ; dibora@sbg.at ; Karin=20 Raab ; chuck55@optonline.net ; Joseph = DiPalermo
Subject: Big=20 day tomorrow !

Got my survival gear, Flieger is = loaded with=20 gas, weather looks good tail wind
Going straight from Goose bay = to=20 Greenland 5 hours over=20 water!










Sent from my=20 iPhone





-----
No virus found in this=20 message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2016.0.7442 / Virus = Database:=20 4649/12942 - Release Date:=20 09/04/16



-----
No virus = found in=20 this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: = 2016.0.7442=20 / Virus Database: 4649/12949 - Release Date:=20 09/05/16




-----
No virus found = in this=20 message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2016.0.7442 / Virus = Database:=20 4649/12956 - Release Date: 09/06/16

--
Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
Archive and=20 UnSub:   http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/Lis= t.html

 
--
Kelly = Troyer
Dyke=20 Delta_"Eventually"
13B_RD1C_EC2_EM2

No virus found in this=20 message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2016.0.7442 / = Virus=20 Database: 4649/12956 - Release Date:=20 09/06/16

No virus found in this=20 message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2016.0.7442 / = Virus=20 Database: 4649/12956 - Release Date:=20 09/06/16

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