Mailing List flyrotary@lancaironline.net Message #62147
From: William Jepson <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: To P or not...
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2015 17:03:47 -0700
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>

Bill,
You couldn't be more incorrect. The P port is VERY tuneable. Witness the LeMans 26B which had variable length intakes to improve driveability across the rev range. You just need to alter your thinking a bit. The rotor IS THE VALVE. When in the intake phase tuning length is very effective. A turbo works similarly, but length isn't as critical. Obstruction is more important in the turbo version. If the path is clean and free of sharp corners the turbo doesn't work as hard and doesn't heat the intake charge as much. Less need for an intercooler.

Bill Jepson

On Oct 7, 2015 4:35 PM, "Bill Bradburry" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:

If I understand the situation, and believe me, I probably don’t….a tuned intake would give a turbo more power at a given boost pressure than it would have untuned at that same boost pressure.  However, the benefit might not be worth the effort due to the small incremental difference.

On the other hand, a P-port is never closed so there would be negligible reflected waves to use for tuning.  The rotor apex seal slides by the opening of the port and slices off the fuel/air charge that is going to one rotor face and it starts to be directed to the other face.  Think of the intake air column as a sausage that is being sliced off as the apex goes by the open port.  Very little reflectivity to use for tuning.

 

Or more likely, I could be wrong.

 

Bill

 


From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]
Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 2015 11:39 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: To P or not...

 

One more question to throw into the mix.  A friend is building a Cozy and has 13B short block, currently believed to be fresh though compression and leak down tests remain to be done.  He is now thinking to go turbo instead of tearing it down to go P-port.  Is it true that there is no intake runner tuning for a turbo setup?  Yes it is more complicated to go turbo (than peripheral), but there is also the advantages at altitude.

 

So the extra question is:  P-port or turbo?

 

James R. Osborn
rxcited@gmail.com

 

On Oct 7, 2015, at 8:17 AM, Bill Bradburry <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:

 

Christian,

 

While you are doing that, you could also include some info on your pporting of the Renesis.  How did you know where to bore the holes for proper timing and how did you seal the water jacket?  I assume that you just plugged up the original ports with JB weld or something?

 

Thanks,

One of the other Bills

 


From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]
Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 2015 9:04 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: To P or not...

 

can you give details on your custom built hotdog with inox? baffling.

 

Thanks

Bill Schertz

 

Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2015 11:08 PM

Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: To P or not...

 

I would agree, yes it worked out to be allot more simpler running 2 x 2" runners than playing with 4 in my opinion and  easier to manufactur etc

From modifying my engine from a not so good 6 port intake to a simple 2 port intake I gained a good 30-40 hp and 15 k top end

The noise also isn't that bad on my renises as I've attached a custom built hotdog underneath with inox baffling which works well



Sent from my iPhone


On 7 Oct 2015, at 1:34 pm, Mark McClure <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:

Trying to ensure I have a complete knowledge before I make my decision,

 

The P port as shown for the website is exactly what we are looking for. Straight forward power at high rpm.  The noise is a factor of energy output which is the same. 

 

If I tune a 4 port runner system and get x amount of air into the engine I give y amount of fuel and I have z amount of power and engine exhaust/noise to handle.

 

If I use a P port and get x amount of air and give y amount of fuel it is the exact same z output.  It was just easier to get x amount of air into the system.

 

Or am I completely off base.

 


On Oct 6, 2015, at 2:17 PM, William Jepson <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:

Bob,
One thing that everyone should get clear is that for aircraft PPorts are almost always superior. At higher RPMs. Also Pports will idle just fine. Good balance and vibration control are the key to good idle. The engine won't make a lot of power at low rpm but that isn't a problem for an aircraft. The rotary makes a better aircraft engine than a car engine!

Bill Jepson

On Oct 6, 2015 9:14 AM, "Rogers, Bob J." <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:

You should read the description of the effects of P-porting at this website.  See bottom entry.   http://www.mazdarotary.net/porting.htm  And it is loud!!!  See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jebl2pWaiWI

Bob J. Rogers

-----Original Message-----
From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]
Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2015 10:33 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] To P or not...

I understand the benefits of P porting the engine.  And I think I know the answer to my question but thought I'd verify.

Looking for 180-200 hp.  I have a freshly overhauled 2004 4 port 13b.
If the intake and exhaust are built right I should have no problem getting that power NA.

If I P port the intake it will be easier to make 200 or more. however it is just easier to get air into the engine, and therefore more fuel. But it is not by any means more fuel efficient?

So therefore if I don't need the power I don't need to P port.

Mark


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