X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com From: "Bill Bradburry" Received: from vms173023pub.verizon.net ([206.46.173.23] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.1.4) with ESMTPS id 7802125 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sun, 28 Jun 2015 12:21:40 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=206.46.173.23; envelope-from=bbradburry@verizon.net Received: from Desktop ([71.164.185.6]) by vms173023.mailsrvcs.net (Oracle Communications Messaging Server 7.0.5.32.0 64bit (built Jul 16 2014)) with ESMTPA id <0NQN00DQTXE87U10@vms173023.mailsrvcs.net> for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sun, 28 Jun 2015 11:20:33 -0500 (CDT) X-CMAE-Score: 0 X-CMAE-Analysis: v=2.1 cv=DcDq0aZW c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=20weQFHSdBTlwctzPCQ/Gw==:117 a=o1OHuDzbAAAA:8 a=oR5dmqMzAAAA:8 a=-9mUelKeXuEA:10 a=kUPQlYmSbg0A:10 a=XAFQembCKUMA:10 a=r77TgQKjGQsHNAKrUKIA:9 a=9iDbn-4jx3cA:10 a=cKsnjEOsciEA:10 a=gZbpxnkM3yUA:10 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=YesV_NUvke6ojTv8gUoA:9 a=CzAsS838KQYBLzB1:21 a=w4i_Y9aZBKRsiOu4:21 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 a=SSmOFEACAAAA:8 a=ysAL8BQLQ7xlYgXS2soA:9 a=b9Gq3tvq6R5AKCFS:21 a=ABE-6fqsMzVRG6f_:21 a=lYaX8X5OJ_1IZUmO:21 a=gKO2Hq4RSVkA:10 a=UiCQ7L4-1S4A:10 a=hTZeC7Yk6K0A:10 a=frz4AuCg-hUA:10 To: "'Rotary motors in aircraft'" References: In-reply-to: Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Re: West Aussie Rotary Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2015 11:20:32 -0500 Message-id: <3E086902478C46328C7DAFD5C8031284@Desktop> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0012_01D0B194.72D43390" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-index: AdCxuEHQJP1unKJiTYOl8N5Xj/1j1AABKd9w X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6002.18463 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01D0B194.72D43390 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Andrew, Congrats on getting to this point! If you can get some pics it could help to advise you. One thing about your oil temps, if I understand what you are saying, the air flow for the oil coolers comes in under the prop and flows out at the top of the cowl just under the windscreen. I am not certain about running on the ground, but both these areas are high pressure zones in flight and I suspect that you are not getting air flow thru the coolers. You need the air to come in at a high pressure area and exit in a low pressure area so it will flow. If you have a way to test it check either pressure on both sides of the coolers with a manometer or flow on both sides of the coolers with a pitot. I suspect your flow is going to be pretty stagnant. Is the flow of air thru the water any different than thru the oil? Bill _____ From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2015 10:36 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: West Aussie Rotary On Sun, Jun 28, 2015 at 1:52 AM, Andrew Martin wrote: Take 2 without photo Hi All Over the last 6 weeks I've got my plane to the airport, assembled & running.B Now wouldn't it be great if it was just that easy. Firstly I found when trying to start the engine, it didn't want to start, everything made right noises but 0 fuel, I mean absolutely no fuel would flow through any of the injectors, which annoyed me as they only hadB about 10 min running time from a couple of years ago. Got them cleaned & all good. Almost every day since I've been trying to tune this thing. Seems easy enough after re reading Tracy's manuals a couple more times, in practice has been a bit of a pain, at each start it seems previous fuelB map settings were wrong, today I think I may have found the issue. Fuel could be pooling in the intake runnersB at low rpm then creating a rich situation as it is consumed. My intake runners are fairly short at about 12", from the flange they are angled down about 1 dia then turn upB into the bottom of the plenum extending to the top. I thought this would be ok as at flight rpm should be enough airflow to keep the fuel moving, just to get to flight rpm! Have managed some highB rpm runsB after tying the plane down,B get toB about 7200rpm before oil temp and blistering paint on the cowl stops play pretty quick. Seems to happen too quick to write down all temps & pressures but coolant seems to max out at about 180 oil just keeps climbing at anything more than about 4000 rpm but can get it below 200 after idling. So me thinks, need to set higher minimum pitch on prop, maybe a oil to coolant heat exchanger, maybe something similar to what Tracy done early on,B in the oil panB on his rv4. Some heat shielding on cowl,B Then wait until all pooled fuel is gone each timeB before trying to tune. Engine is a 4 port Renesis, heat exchangers are against the firewall with cool air ducted from just under the spinner, under the motor then up the firewall.B hot air exits on top front of cowl. Other than the oil temp seems to work quite well, heat exchangersB share air but coolant one might be getting more than it should. Fun times. Andrew Hi Andrew,B Good to hear that another rotary is 'close' (to flying). I noticed the 1st line 'without photo'. Did earlier attempts bounce? I think the message size, including attachments, is around 200KB. Try resizing the image to 150K or smaller. If you need help resizing, let us know. There's a plugin for Win XP that makes it very easy; Win7/8 is a bit more convoluted but not that hard. I for one would love to see as many pics as you have time to send.B Please help those of us who are memory challenged & let us know which airframe. Runner length shouldn't be an issue (I hope it isn't; that's about the length of mine), since Tracy's Renesis uses intakes about that long. CharlieB ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01D0B194.72D43390 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Andrew,

=

Congrats on getting to this = point!  If you can get some pics it could help to advise you.    One = thing about your oil temps, if I understand what you are saying, the air flow = for the oil coolers comes in under the prop and flows out at the top of the cowl = just under the windscreen.  I am not certain about running on the = ground, but both these areas are high pressure zones in flight and I suspect that = you are not getting air flow thru the coolers.  You need the air to come in = at a high pressure area and exit in a low pressure area so it will = flow.  If you have a way to test it check either pressure on both sides of the coolers = with a manometer or flow on both sides of the coolers with a pitot.  I = suspect your flow is going to be pretty stagnant.

 

Is the flow of air thru the water = any different than thru the oil?

 

Bill

From: = Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]
Sent: Sunday, June 28, = 2015 10:36 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = West Aussie Rotary

 

 

 

On Sun, Jun 28, 2015 at 1:52 AM, Andrew Martin <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:



Take 2 without photo

 

Hi All

 

Over the last 6 weeks I've got my plane to the airport, = assembled & running.B Now wouldn't it be great if it was just that = easy.

 

Firstly I found when trying to start the engine, it didn't want = to start, everything made right noises but 0 fuel, I mean absolutely no = fuel would flow through any of the injectors, which annoyed me as they only hadB = about 10 min running time from a couple of years ago. Got them cleaned & all = good.

 

Almost every day since I've been trying to tune this thing. = Seems easy enough after re reading Tracy's manuals a couple more times, in practice = has been a bit of a pain, at each start it seems previous fuelB map settings = were wrong, today I think I may have found the = issue.

Fuel could be pooling in the intake runnersB at low rpm then = creating a rich situation as it is consumed. My intake runners are fairly short at = about 12", from the flange they are angled down about 1 dia then turn upB = into the bottom of the plenum extending to the top. I thought this would be = ok as at flight rpm should be enough airflow to keep the fuel moving, just to get = to flight rpm!

 

Have managed some highB rpm runsB after tying the plane down,B = get toB about 7200rpm before oil temp and blistering paint on the cowl stops = play pretty quick. Seems to happen too quick to write down all temps & = pressures but coolant seems to max out at about 180 oil just keeps climbing at = anything more than about 4000 rpm but can get it below 200 after = idling.

 

So me thinks, need to set higher minimum pitch on prop, maybe a = oil to coolant heat exchanger, maybe something similar to what Tracy done early on,B in the oil = panB on his rv4. Some heat shielding on cowl,B Then wait until all pooled fuel is = gone each timeB before trying to tune.

 

Engine is a 4 port Renesis, heat exchangers are against the = firewall with cool air ducted from just under the spinner, under the motor then = up the firewall.B hot air exits on top front of cowl. Other than the oil temp = seems to work quite well, heat exchangersB share air but coolant one might be = getting more than it should.

 

Fun times.

 

Andrew


Hi Andrew,B

 

Good to hear that another rotary is 'close' (to flying). I = noticed the 1st line 'without photo'. Did earlier attempts bounce? I think the = message size, including attachments, is around 200KB. Try resizing the image to = 150K or smaller. If you need help resizing, let us know. There's a plugin for = Win XP that makes it very easy; Win7/8 is a bit more convoluted but not that = hard. I for one would love to see as many pics as you have time to send.B =

 

Please help those of us who are memory challenged & let us = know which airframe. Runner length shouldn't be an issue (I hope it isn't; that's = about the length of mine), since Tracy's Renesis uses intakes about that long.

 

CharlieB

 

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