flyrotary@lancaironline.net Mailing List Archive

OK, thanks for the info. The way I was reading it, I thought it was a mounting plate that would bolt up to the Dynafocal mount like an adapter.

I am aware of the the Cozy Girls mount and prolly will use it when I get to that point.

~~~tg~~~

From: Kelly Troyer <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Monday, June 22, 2015 12:15 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: PERIPHERAL PORT INFO (Mark Steitle)

Tom,

For a short time several years ago Mistral while they were trying to certify their engines they sold a few complete

engines and certain parts (back-plates, intake systems, reduction drives, etc).........These engines and parts were

experimental and could not be used in certified a/c..........I waited 2 years for Mistral to have enough sales to make

a production run of parts..........They preferred to sell complete engines (13B was $30,000.00+) at the time but if

you had your order for individual parts in before the production run they would add it to the run........The parts are

beautifully done and the early back-plates (mount) could be adapted to the stock 86-95 13B with minimal machine

work........ I did mine on my CCM (cheap Chinese mill) and I would not make a pimple on a machinist's behind .......

The back-plate has a custom water-pump, alternator mount and a pad for accessory drive (vacuum, fuel ,etc)........

I purchased my plate without the internal drive gears (less expensive) as our rotary's are all electric........

Now to address your question about your 20B...........They did build a few 20B engines but as they edged closer

to certifying their engines they needed a paper trail for their parts production and since the early engines still used

many stock Mazda parts (rotors, rotor hsgs, eccentric shafts,side hsgs, etc) they started producing more parts

and in the process changed many of the things about the stock parts (side housings in particular) they did not

need or worked better for their A/C engines..........I do not know all that they changed but the later production 13B

and 20B back-plate's will not bolt onto the stock front side plates unfortunately........The early 20B engines that I

have seen photos of used the early backplate ( just the bottom mount ears) and had two additional mounts at the

prop reduction drive making a "Bed" type mount..........The 20B's flying (besides Mistral's) that I am aware of all use

a bed type mount of some kind........Mark modified his Lancair's stock bed mount.........Tracy Crook and others use

a flat aluminum plate with mount cushion ears (4) at each corner.........The "Cozzygirrls" still make this plate and the

rectangular 4130 tube mount that will bolt to the alum plate and can be used to weld up the remainder of the mount

to fit your project........Long winded but I hope this is of some help........Be glad to answer any other questions.......

Link to Cozygirrls......... http://www.cozygirrrl.com/aircraftparts.htm

Best Regards,

Kelly Troyer

Dyke Delta_"Eventually"
13B_RD1C_EC2_EM2

On Mon, Jun 22, 2015 at 7:43 AM, Tom Gillespie <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:

Interesting! I didn't know Mistrial had a mounting plate like that. Do you have any pics or a source for one? I am in the same situation with a 20B and the project I bought has a Dynafocal#1 mount.
Thanks for any info.
~~~tg~~~

From: Kelly Troyer <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Monday, June 22, 2015 3:00 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: PERIPHERAL PORT INFO (Mark Steitle)

Mark,

Glad you mentioned your use of the individual throttle body's as I had forgotten that you replaced the slide throttle.......I presume
that you used the two inch OD stainless intake tubes as called out by Paul Lamar ?...........The 48 mm TB's are an almost perfect
match for the intake tube ID.........Did you use any "Devco" sealant in the water passage around the intake tubes in addition to the
red gasket sealant under the plates ?.........Also did you have any problem with TIG weld "Spatter" getting on the chrome surface
of the rotor hsg and causing any damage ?.........

I have one of "MISTRAL's" mount plates which bolts up to a Lyc "dynafocal" mount ring and solves the thorny Rotary Engine
mount problem and will allow me to switch engines (hopefully) at some point........I am building a somewhat hybrid version of the
13BREW with RB alum rear and center hsgs (expensive 28 lb weight savings) ..........I am retaining the iron front hsg (rear in my
a/c) as the "MISTRAL" plate bolts up to it with several 6 mm bolts and I was not fond of the idea of my entire engine hanging on
these bolts into aluminum threads.........I also have a TO4E Turbo on the bench just in case I get this done in this lifetime........<:)

Thanks Again,
Kelly Troyer

On Sun, Jun 21, 2015 at 3:28 PM, Mark Steitle <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
Kelly,

P-port 20b is working great. It loves to rev. and produces noticeably more HP at WOT than the side port motor did (verified by increase in TAS) I first tried the boring and welding process on a scrap housing and didn't detect any warping or shrinkage, so I decided to go ahead and do it to the good housings. I think my "test housing" is the picture that PL posts when he discusses welding the p-ports. The sealing plates only seal around the large inlet tubes and don't totally solve the problem of sealant leakage. They could use a second o-ring, or gasket, between the sealing plate and the housing surface, IMHO. There is the potential for leakage where you bolt the plates to the housings. I had some small but persistent leaks around the small 1/4" dia. bolts. I was finally able to get those to seal by putting a small counter-sink where the bolt head touches the plate and using an o-ring under the bolt head. I used button-head bolts. This solved that problem.

You'll also have to figure out the intake. Rumor has it that the throttle plate needs to be as close to the port as possible for good idle characteristics. You could save weight by engineering the throttles into the housing, or do like I did and use three 1-bbl throttle bodies located as close to the SS inlets as possible. I found a set of three 48mm tb's off a sea-doo for $100. I chose these because they had injector bosses cast right into the TB housing. I had to machine a new throttle shaft to get the spacing right for the 3-rotor. But they are working out nicely.

Thanks,
Mark

On Sun, Jun 21, 2015 at 9:56 AM, Kelly Troyer <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
Mark,

Even though I am going to the Dark Side (IO-360) for expediency for the time
being I still want to use a Rotary eventually.........I am seriously thinking about
P porting my 13B and would like to know how your 20B is holding up particularly
at your port insert junction using the machined plates and sealant.........Have you
had any major problems with leaks so far ?.........I have a pair of plates from Paul
that have the "O" rings and if I recall correctly your plates were prior to the ones
with "O" rings..........I am curious whether you had any major problems when you
were smoothing and putting the radius the "TIG" welds........On the same question
did the "TIG" welding seem to cause any warping of the rotor hsg steel liner ?........

Thanks,
Kelly Troyer