X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com From: "Tom Gillespie" Received: from nm34-vm8.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com ([72.30.239.6] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.1.3) with ESMTPS id 7782286 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 22 Jun 2015 08:43:58 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=72.30.239.6; envelope-from=pseudowilly33@ymail.com DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ymail.com; s=s2048; t=1434977004; bh=yeoqJT/n4gga/g0q6b1zFs1pzPO4BXgN7YJQ4IPqD7s=; h=Date:From:Reply-To:To:In-Reply-To:References:Subject:From:Subject; b=IbHDpYPbbkpitVnoo0ZN0z3UV2ijonrvGMQhlqJqKUoYuwKEHRkLFXzzc58EKe8iGa655+ARcY9JO09zd7aStDHuuFenPOnuj1pPifE2bs9G2MHpFxQYrFMQo2az2HobAi3bhVG9WazzmG+yV1gyEtMDUSBmtxlAmymaAOnObSVvwbW+gjytJKyeA5irkbKvUwuNFv4Dh8J51drNMQ3togj5ZLQaZK7RFAgagXN5xB4S5YbQtNlYasczkLhfy03LwPMYkkoWXgSEppEogIPRBH45EJrddRyaMg9evdJPSfpsqiObdXT3hY/tjf0o0miLD+MVcPElh9B+RLTSzsYMCA== Received: from [98.139.170.179] by nm34.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Jun 2015 12:43:24 -0000 Received: from [98.139.212.206] by tm22.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Jun 2015 12:43:24 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1015.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Jun 2015 12:43:24 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 692273.13141.bm@omp1015.mail.bf1.yahoo.com X-YMail-OSG: bfi9zCwVM1n1r1aYugRgcYTlsuYznlzqZT5rrgT1vggCJXq3Kqs7Ytn5S1Qh56t OKmrA0Y_PKK5mGQPOdGtIN3SbLPoKtNkZ5V9bj2eqzJWGZ5EUTvDdSvV7JJhY_0a3f0UnIAncZYG aEm08_6Q5R5kjSLCemK.V5.OyY.gQGWs76kH26UF.9.qJW2UC2oKaDNbP5H5BTAHHtGjug_fVajt tLQocbC883viA.YrO8BJFa57psFHGqA.NuFikuJ5GA_O5M38RRSXJWPbrlO4b_tTuU5QslZToKA1 ceknrPC.vLwQywK0cogCUPP7h1aJ5nEOU9mTPFnnXVDwrVFf3ENOlVqtNIFMh_GpkVm.qq9y0KEO eoAtXZXkEIJvvqaY1tndyoPRmMVmj3HIcBkFWXXL_vDng_Z98UGTiv9fOxQa22OQaxF7D9zPUf1p M.4A2JOHzcq4f0DTc05sRdmtZnoOJPlF72MCVyp9vVMFZFfa0AMmBud0nIMdFScW10iCKmQ79Xxm LAQpO8d5PArcgu1f9QXjSruq8lfRyig-- Received: by 66.196.80.124; Mon, 22 Jun 2015 12:43:24 +0000 Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2015 12:43:23 +0000 (UTC) Reply-To: Tom Gillespie To: Rotary motors in aircraft Message-ID: <1490646784.3739011.1434977003570.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: PERIPHERAL PORT INFO (Mark Steitle) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_3739010_1633948460.1434977003560" Content-Length: 12281 ------=_Part_3739010_1633948460.1434977003560 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Interesting! I didn't know Mistrial had a mounting plate like that. Do you = have any pics or a =C2=A0source for one? I am in the same situation with a = 20B and the project I bought has a Dynafocal#1 mount.=C2=A0Thanks for any i= nfo.~~~tg~~~ From: Kelly Troyer To: Rotary motors in aircraft =20 Sent: Monday, June 22, 2015 3:00 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: PERIPHERAL PORT INFO (Mark Steitle) =20 Mark, =C2=A0 =C2=A0Glad you mentioned your use of the individual throttle body's = as I had forgotten that you replaced the slide throttle.......I presumethat= you used the two inch OD stainless intake tubes as called out by Paul Lama= r ?...........The 48 mm TB's are an almost perfectmatch for the intake tube= ID.........Did you use any "Devco" sealant in the water passage around the= intake tubes in addition to thered gasket sealant under the plates ?......= ...Also did you have any problem with TIG weld "Spatter" getting on the chr= ome surfaceof the rotor hsg and causing any damage ?......... =C2=A0 =C2=A0I have one of "MISTRAL's" mount plates which bolts up to a Lyc= "dynafocal" mount ring and solves the thorny Rotary Enginemount problem an= d will allow me to switch engines (hopefully) at some point........I am bui= lding a somewhat hybrid version of the13BREW with RB alum rear and center h= sgs (expensive 28 lb weight savings) ..........I am retaining the iron fron= t hsg (rear in my=C2=A0a/c) as the "MISTRAL" plate bolts up to it with seve= ral 6 mm bolts and I was not fond of the idea of =C2=A0my entire engine han= ging onthese bolts into aluminum threads.........I also have a TO4E Turbo o= n the bench just in case I get this done in this lifetime........<:) Thanks Again,Kelly Troyer =C2=A0 On Sun, Jun 21, 2015 at 3:28 PM, Mark Steitle = wrote: Kelly,=20 P-port 20b is working great.=C2=A0 It loves to rev. and produces noticeably= more HP at WOT than the side port motor did (verified by increase in TAS)= =C2=A0 I first tried the boring and welding process on a scrap housing and = didn't detect any warping or shrinkage, so I decided to go ahead and do it = to the good housings.=C2=A0 I think my "test housing" is the picture that P= L posts when he discusses welding the p-ports.=C2=A0 The sealing plates onl= y seal around the large inlet tubes and don't totally solve the problem of = sealant leakage. They could use a second o-ring, or gasket, between the sea= ling plate and the housing surface, IMHO.=C2=A0 There is the potential for = leakage where you bolt the plates to the housings.=C2=A0 I had some small b= ut persistent leaks around the small 1/4" dia. bolts.=C2=A0 I was finally a= ble to get those to seal by putting a small counter-sink where the bolt hea= d touches the plate and using an o-ring under the bolt head.=C2=A0 I used b= utton-head bolts.=C2=A0 This solved that problem.=C2=A0=20 You'll also have to figure out the intake.=C2=A0 Rumor has it that the thro= ttle plate needs to be as close to the port as possible for good idle chara= cteristics.=C2=A0 You could save weight by engineering the throttles into t= he housing, or do like I did and use three 1-bbl throttle bodies located as= close to the SS inlets as possible.=C2=A0 I found a set of three 48mm tb's= off a sea-doo for $100.=C2=A0 I chose these because they had injector boss= es cast right into the TB housing.=C2=A0 I had to machine a new throttle sh= aft to get the spacing right for the 3-rotor.=C2=A0 But they are working ou= t nicely. Thanks, Mark=C2=A0=20 On Sun, Jun 21, 2015 at 9:56 AM, Kelly Troyer = wrote: Mark, =C2=A0 =C2=A0Even though I am going to the Dark Side (IO-360) for expedienc= y for the timebeing I still want to use a Rotary eventually.........I am se= riously thinking about=C2=A0P porting my 13B and would like to know how you= r 20B is holding up particularly=C2=A0at your port insert junction using th= e machined plates and sealant.........Have you=C2=A0had any major problems = with leaks so far ?.........I have a pair of plates from Paulthat have the = "O" rings and if I recall correctly your plates were prior to the ones=C2= =A0with "O" rings..........I am curious whether you had any major problems = when youwere smoothing and putting the radius the "TIG" welds........On the= same questiondid the "TIG" welding seem to cause any warping of the rotor = hsg steel liner ?........=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Thanks,=C2=A0Kelly Troyer ------=_Part_3739010_1633948460.1434977003560 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Interesting! I didn't know Mistrial= had a mounting plate like that. Do you have any pics or a  source for= one? I am in the same situation with a 20B and the project I bought has a = Dynafocal#1 mount.
 Thanks for any info.
~~~tg~~~
=
= From: Kelly Troyer <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft &= lt;flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Monday, June 22, 2015 3:00 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: PERIPHERAL PORT INFO (= Mark Steitle)

Mark,

   Glad= you mentioned your use of the individual throttle body's as I had forgotte= n that you replaced the slide throttle.......I presume
that= you used the two inch OD stainless intake tubes as called out by Paul Lama= r ?...........The 48 mm TB's are an almost perfect
match for the intake tube ID.........Did you use a= ny "Devco" sealant in the water passage around the intake tubes in addition= to the
red gasket sealant under the plates ?.........Also did yo= u have any problem with TIG weld "Spatter" getting on the chrome surface
of the rotor hsg and causing any damage ?.........

   I have one of "MISTRAL's" mount plates which bolts up= to a Lyc "dynafocal" mount ring and solves the thorny Rotary Engine
<= div>mount problem and will allow me to switch engines (hopefully) at some p= oint........I am building a somewhat hybrid version of the
13BREW= with RB alum rear and center hsgs (expensive 28 lb weight savings) .......= ...I am retaining the iron front hsg (rear in my 
a/c) as th= e "MISTRAL" plate bolts up to it with several 6 mm bolts and I was not fond= of the idea of  my entire engine hanging on
these bolts int= o aluminum threads.........I also have a TO4E Turbo on the bench just in ca= se I get this done in this lifetime........<:)

= Thanks Again,
Kelly Troyer  

On Sun, Jun 21, 2= 015 at 3:28 PM, Mark Steitle <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wr= ote:
=
Kelly,

P-port 20b is working great.  It l= oves to rev. and produces noticeably more HP at WOT than the side port moto= r did (verified by increase in TAS)  I first tried the boring and weld= ing process on a scrap housing and didn't detect any warping or shrinkage, = so I decided to go ahead and do it to the good housings.  I think my "= test housing" is the picture that PL posts when he discusses welding the p-= ports.  The sealing plates only seal around the large inlet tubes and = don't totally solve the problem of sealant leakage. They could use a second= o-ring, or gasket, between the sealing plate and the housing surface, IMHO= .  There is the potential for leakage where you bolt the plates to the= housings.  I had some small but persistent leaks around the small 1/4= " dia. bolts.  I was finally able to get those to seal by putting a sm= all counter-sink where the bolt head touches the plate and using an o-ring = under the bolt head.  I used button-head bolts.  This solved that= problem. 

You'll also have to figure out the intake.&nb= sp; Rumor has it that the throttle plate needs to be as close to the port a= s possible for good idle characteristics.  You could save weight by en= gineering the throttles into the housing, or do like I did and use three 1-= bbl throttle bodies located as close to the SS inlets as possible.  I = found a set of three 48mm tb's off a sea-doo for $100.  I chose these = because they had injector bosses cast right into the TB housing.  I ha= d to machine a new throttle shaft to get the spacing right for the 3-rotor.=   But they are working out nicely.

Thanks,
Mark&= nbsp;

On Sun, Jun 21, 2015 at 9:56 AM, Kelly Troyer <flyrotary@la= ncaironline.net> wrote:
Mark,

   Even though I a= m going to the Dark Side (IO-360) for expediency for the time
bei= ng I still want to use a Rotary eventually.........I am seriously thinking = about 
P porting my 13B and would like to know how your 20B = is holding up particularly 
at your port insert junction usi= ng the machined plates and sealant.........Have you 
had any= major problems with leaks so far ?.........I have a pair of plates from Pa= ul
that have the "O" rings and if I recall correctly your plates = were prior to the ones 
with "O" rings..........I am curious= whether you had any major problems when you
were smoothing and p= utting the radius the "TIG" welds........On the same question
did= the "TIG" welding seem to cause any warping of the rotor hsg steel liner ?= ........
  
 Thanks,
&nbs= p;Kelly Troyer









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