X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com From: "Kelly Troyer" Received: from mail-ob0-f180.google.com ([209.85.214.180] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.1.3) with ESMTPS id 7781973 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 22 Jun 2015 03:00:39 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.214.180; envelope-from=keltro@gmail.com Received: by obctg8 with SMTP id tg8so107520911obc.3 for ; Mon, 22 Jun 2015 00:00:06 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=Ji714Ij9J5M1+TXn2lO9HWKCbAt3kHNUJnK0v9QWsgU=; b=HyXHyi88OnhraCsINGtLK6NB3TJT2nZlv4VKT+H+h9yhH+l7wLi9DkT+dAOXiKYUdG opc21BTGpMpPfOoMyxic+JFKHwheaJAIBm86ZhoFEVf4+b8MjYecdY5LdSpb11ZXY7sv pct/+TThFAFSeV48+l3kBaJ50GKqSYfp9AJwYD8pfBYiH1iSgbfqiV+zpzRgTn0BgEAN G3LUVPjKL7I7q3aLt+o5GiLlWyqtftTUN9zmvomZqz1hlcKBipH7myU4WNBcAfv01hS8 mVrHeFCsufIl2sl8YOZWq5OL7/3zpqE0fkOAe5Lf7LXRjkGoM/LGhp7gYsilRj4bkf52 0c7w== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.202.71.204 with SMTP id u195mr22418164oia.36.1434956406658; Mon, 22 Jun 2015 00:00:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.202.205.216 with HTTP; Mon, 22 Jun 2015 00:00:06 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2015 02:00:06 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: PERIPHERAL PORT INFO (Mark Steitle) To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a113e57dce32d9f051915d29c --001a113e57dce32d9f051915d29c Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Mark, Glad you mentioned your use of the individual throttle body's as I had forgotten that you replaced the slide throttle.......I presume that you used the two inch OD stainless intake tubes as called out by Paul Lamar ?...........The 48 mm TB's are an almost perfect match for the intake tube ID.........Did you use any "Devco" sealant in the water passage around the intake tubes in addition to the red gasket sealant under the plates ?.........Also did you have any problem with TIG weld "Spatter" getting on the chrome surface of the rotor hsg and causing any damage ?......... I have one of "MISTRAL's" mount plates which bolts up to a Lyc "dynafocal" mount ring and solves the thorny Rotary Engine mount problem and will allow me to switch engines (hopefully) at some point........I am building a somewhat hybrid version of the 13BREW with RB alum rear and center hsgs (expensive 28 lb weight savings) ..........I am retaining the iron front hsg (rear in my a/c) as the "MISTRAL" plate bolts up to it with several 6 mm bolts and I was not fond of the idea of my entire engine hanging on these bolts into aluminum threads.........I also have a TO4E Turbo on the bench just in case I get this done in this lifetime........<:) Thanks Again, Kelly Troyer On Sun, Jun 21, 2015 at 3:28 PM, Mark Steitle wrote: > Kelly, > > P-port 20b is working great. It loves to rev. and produces noticeably > more HP at WOT than the side port motor did (verified by increase in TAS) > I first tried the boring and welding process on a scrap housing and didn't > detect any warping or shrinkage, so I decided to go ahead and do it to the > good housings. I think my "test housing" is the picture that PL posts when > he discusses welding the p-ports. The sealing plates only seal around the > large inlet tubes and don't totally solve the problem of sealant leakage. > They could use a second o-ring, or gasket, between the sealing plate and > the housing surface, IMHO. There is the potential for leakage where you > bolt the plates to the housings. I had some small but persistent leaks > around the small 1/4" dia. bolts. I was finally able to get those to seal > by putting a small counter-sink where the bolt head touches the plate and > using an o-ring under the bolt head. I used button-head bolts. This > solved that problem. > > You'll also have to figure out the intake. Rumor has it that the throttle > plate needs to be as close to the port as possible for good idle > characteristics. You could save weight by engineering the throttles into > the housing, or do like I did and use three 1-bbl throttle bodies located > as close to the SS inlets as possible. I found a set of three 48mm tb's > off a sea-doo for $100. I chose these because they had injector bosses > cast right into the TB housing. I had to machine a new throttle shaft to > get the spacing right for the 3-rotor. But they are working out nicely. > > Thanks, > Mark > > On Sun, Jun 21, 2015 at 9:56 AM, Kelly Troyer > wrote: > >> Mark, >> >> Even though I am going to the Dark Side (IO-360) for expediency for >> the time >> being I still want to use a Rotary eventually.........I am seriously >> thinking about >> P porting my 13B and would like to know how your 20B is holding up >> particularly >> at your port insert junction using the machined plates and >> sealant.........Have you >> had any major problems with leaks so far ?.........I have a pair of >> plates from Paul >> that have the "O" rings and if I recall correctly your plates were prior >> to the ones >> with "O" rings..........I am curious whether you had any major problems >> when you >> were smoothing and putting the radius the "TIG" welds........On the same >> question >> did the "TIG" welding seem to cause any warping of the rotor hsg steel >> liner ?........ >> >> Thanks, >> Kelly Troyer >> >> > --001a113e57dce32d9f051915d29c Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Mark,

=C2=A0 =C2=A0Glad you mentioned your us= e of the individual throttle body's as I had forgotten that you replace= d the slide throttle.......I presume
that you used the two = inch OD stainless intake tubes as called out by Paul Lamar ?...........The = 48 mm TB's are an almost perfect
match for the intake tube ID= .........Did you use any "Devco" sealant in the water passage aro= und the intake tubes in addition to the
red gasket sealant under = the plates ?.........Also did you have any problem with TIG weld "Spat= ter" getting on the chrome surface
of the rotor hsg and caus= ing any damage ?.........

=C2=A0 =C2=A0I have one = of "MISTRAL's" mount plates which bolts up to a Lyc "dyn= afocal" mount ring and solves the thorny Rotary Engine
mount= problem and will allow me to switch engines (hopefully) at some point.....= ...I am building a somewhat hybrid version of the
13BREW with RB = alum rear and center hsgs (expensive 28 lb weight savings) ..........I am r= etaining the iron front hsg (rear in my=C2=A0
a/c) as the "M= ISTRAL" plate bolts up to it with several 6 mm bolts and I was not fon= d of the idea of =C2=A0my entire engine hanging on
these bolts in= to aluminum threads.........I also have a TO4E Turbo on the bench just in c= ase I get this done in this lifetime........<:)

Thanks Again,
Kelly Troyer =C2=A0

On Sun, Jun 21, 2015 at 3:28 PM, Mark Stei= tle <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
Kelly,
P-port 20b is working great.=C2=A0 It loves to rev. and produces no= ticeably more HP at WOT than the side port motor did (verified by increase = in TAS)=C2=A0 I first tried the boring and welding process on a scrap housi= ng and didn't detect any warping or shrinkage, so I decided to go ahead= and do it to the good housings.=C2=A0 I think my "test housing" = is the picture that PL posts when he discusses welding the p-ports.=C2=A0 T= he sealing plates only seal around the large inlet tubes and don't tota= lly solve the problem of sealant leakage. They could use a second o-ring, o= r gasket, between the sealing plate and the housing surface, IMHO.=C2=A0 Th= ere is the potential for leakage where you bolt the plates to the housings.= =C2=A0 I had some small but persistent leaks around the small 1/4" dia= . bolts.=C2=A0 I was finally able to get those to seal by putting a small c= ounter-sink where the bolt head touches the plate and using an o-ring under= the bolt head.=C2=A0 I used button-head bolts.=C2=A0 This solved that prob= lem.=C2=A0

You'll also have to figure out the intake.=C2= =A0 Rumor has it that the throttle plate needs to be as close to the port a= s possible for good idle characteristics.=C2=A0 You could save weight by en= gineering the throttles into the housing, or do like I did and use three 1-= bbl throttle bodies located as close to the SS inlets as possible.=C2=A0 I = found a set of three 48mm tb's off a sea-doo for $100.=C2=A0 I chose th= ese because they had injector bosses cast right into the TB housing.=C2=A0 = I had to machine a new throttle shaft to get the spacing right for the 3-ro= tor.=C2=A0 But they are working out nicely.

Thanks,
M= ark=C2=A0

On Sun, Jun 21, 2015 at 9:56 AM,= Kelly Troyer <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:=
Mark,

=C2= =A0 =C2=A0Even though I am going to the Dark Side (IO-360) for expediency f= or the time
being I still want to use a Rotary eventually........= .I am seriously thinking about=C2=A0
P porting my 13B and would l= ike to know how your 20B is holding up particularly=C2=A0
at your= port insert junction using the machined plates and sealant.........Have yo= u=C2=A0
had any major problems with leaks so far ?.........I have= a pair of plates from Paul
that have the "O" rings and= if I recall correctly your plates were prior to the ones=C2=A0
w= ith "O" rings..........I am curious whether you had any major pro= blems when you
were smoothing and putting the radius the "TI= G" welds........On the same question
did the "TIG"= welding seem to cause any warping of the rotor hsg steel liner ?........
=C2=A0=C2=A0
=C2=A0Thanks,
=C2=A0Kelly Tr= oyer







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