X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com From: "Bill Bradburry" Received: from vms173025pub.verizon.net ([206.46.173.25] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.1.2) with ESMTPS id 7739228 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 08 Jun 2015 00:25:34 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=206.46.173.25; envelope-from=bbradburry@verizon.net Received: from Desktop ([71.164.185.6]) by vms173025.mailsrvcs.net (Oracle Communications Messaging Server 7.0.5.32.0 64bit (built Jul 16 2014)) with ESMTPA id <0NPL008KMYXON120@vms173025.mailsrvcs.net> for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sun, 07 Jun 2015 23:25:00 -0500 (CDT) X-CMAE-Score: 0 X-CMAE-Analysis: v=2.1 cv=Lv5vsSpc c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=20weQFHSdBTlwctzPCQ/Gw==:117 a=kUPQlYmSbg0A:10 a=o1OHuDzbAAAA:8 a=oR5dmqMzAAAA:8 a=-9mUelKeXuEA:10 a=XAFQembCKUMA:10 a=r77TgQKjGQsHNAKrUKIA:9 a=9iDbn-4jx3cA:10 a=cKsnjEOsciEA:10 a=gZbpxnkM3yUA:10 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=_x5S4zOwh2o2jgVU_1UA:9 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 a=SSmOFEACAAAA:8 a=4PR2P7QzAAAA:8 a=xzROQ0QjxxQZQdfBamkA:9 a=OtLWrJ1NWqXup3Ye:21 a=gKO2Hq4RSVkA:10 a=UiCQ7L4-1S4A:10 a=hTZeC7Yk6K0A:10 a=frz4AuCg-hUA:10 To: "'Rotary motors in aircraft'" References: In-reply-to: Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Re: new operating question Date: Sun, 07 Jun 2015 23:25:01 -0500 Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_002A_01D0A179.2D6BF930" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-index: AdChf9f3vFvfFlJ+SO+irFQaYTGZJwAH2Yqw X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6002.18463 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_002A_01D0A179.2D6BF930 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Charlie, I am flying a Lancair Legacy Fixed Gear. I burn 8.5 - 9 gal/hr at cruise and a little over 12 on take off. I don't have my fuel flow calibration completed and it could be part of a gallon or so off on the EM-2. I get over 20 mpg at over 185 mph which I still have trouble getting my head around! In a car going that fast you would be measuring it in gallons/mile! I really never tried to lean the engine before I put the broadband sensor in the plane so I don't really know the answer about the egt spread. I do get a lot higher egt readings than were advertised. I was expecting temps in the 15-1600s, but they are in the 1700s. Since the rotary is so sensitive to rpm for power output, I don't know if I would have been happy with it with a fixed prop unless I had more power than I needed. I have seen two MT props for sale since I bought mine and both were good deals. I highly recommend the electric prop. It responds a little slower than a hydraulic prop, but that is only a problem if you slam the throttle. I guess the other con for the prop is it helps to carry some power to touchdown because if you chop power in the flare, the prop goes flat and acts like a big brake and the plane seems to just stop flying and drop. I carry power, but I think Mark switches the prop to manual in the pattern and lands it like it was a fixed prop. I don't know what Bobby does in this case. Bill _____ From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2015 7:14 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: new operating question Hi Bill, I'm always hungry for 'numbers' like that. Can you refresh my memory on which plane you're flying? What's your fuel flow during takeoff? And I'm really interested in your fuel flow at your cruise setting of 6000 rpm full throttle up at 7500-8000 feet. Do you have an EGT in addition to your f/a gauge? If so, what's the egt spread between peak and leaned to your cruise setting of 16-1 f/a ratio (how many degrees lean of peak)? Having a controllable prop certainly makes it easier to get a full set of performance numbers, doesn't it? Many thanks, Charlie On 6/7/2015 2:59 PM, Bill Bradburry wrote: Rich, I am flying the NA Renesis with MT electric prop and wideband O2 sensor. Take off and initial climb is WOT with 7100 rpm, after about 500 ft AGL, I dial the prop back to 6500 rpm, still WOT. Cruise climb is WOT and 6000-6200 rpm, and cruise is WOT and 5200-5800 rpm. All climbs are at 12.0-12.5 F/A mixture and cruise is 15.8-16.0 F/A mixture. I never move the throttle off of wide open until I am slowing to enter the pattern for landing. Engine speed is controlled with the prop and power to some extent with the mixture. I have hopes that after Bobby makes his decision as to whether to go with the turbo or the 20B, he will give me the other one! :>) Bill _____ From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2015 10:25 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: new operating question Rich, My normal, not in a hurry settings. 38" MP / 7000 rpm for takeoff and initial climb with F/A 12.5-12.0. Cruise climb 5800 rpm 30-32" MP F/A 13.5- 12.5. Preferred cruise rpm 4800- 5200 At less than 30" MP and F/A 15.8-16.0. Full throttle. Prop rpm controls engine rpm and super charger bypass controls MP. A turbo charger and automotive waste gate would likely require throttle management during high rpm operations. Bobby Hughes Super charged Renesis with electric MT prop. (New Turbo charger and a 20B on the bench- still haven't made a decision about upgrading the RV10. ) Sent from my iPad On Jun 7, 2015, at 9:34 AM, ARGOLDMAN wrote: Greetings genlepeople of the rotary pursuasion, For those of you using variable pitch (C/S) props, an operating question that has been bugging me. Perhaps the collective wisdom of this group can set my mind at rest. In piston aircraft engines, the concept of running over squared MP vs RPM has been heavily questioned to the extent that some suggest running at full throttle all the time and controlling the power output via RPM (within reason). The thought is to, I believe, eliminate the induction restriction of the butterfly valve increasing the efficiency. Now we have a rotor spinning, a gear box gearing and a propeller propelling. Does this concept hold true for the rotaries. What are people doing in terms of setting power after take off (full throttle max RPM). My enquiring and rotating mind wants to know. (Unturbocharged Renesis with RD1-c Box) Thanks Rich ------=_NextPart_000_002A_01D0A179.2D6BF930 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Charlie,

I am flying a Lancair Legacy Fixed Gear.  I burn 8.5 – 9 gal/hr at cruise and a little over 12 = on take off.  I don’t have my fuel flow calibration completed and it = could be part of a gallon or so off on the EM-2. I get over 20 mpg at over 185 = mph which I still have trouble getting my head around!  In a car going = that fast you would be measuring it in gallons/mile!   I really = never tried to lean the engine before I put the broadband sensor in the plane = so I don’t really know the answer about the egt spread.  I do get a lot higher = egt readings than were advertised.  I was expecting temps in the = 15-1600s, but they are in the 1700s.

 

Since the rotary is so sensitive to = rpm for power output, I don’t know if I would have been happy with it = with a fixed prop unless I had more power than I needed.  I have seen two = MT props for sale since I bought mine and both were good deals.  I = highly recommend the electric prop.  It responds a little slower than a = hydraulic prop, but that is only a problem if you slam the throttle.  I guess = the other con for the prop is it helps to carry some power to touchdown = because if you chop power in the flare, the prop goes flat and acts like a big = brake and the plane seems to just stop flying and drop.  I carry power, but I = think Mark switches the prop to manual in the pattern and lands it like it was = a fixed prop.  I don’t know what Bobby does in this = case.

 

Bill

 

From: Rotary motors in = aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]
Sent: Sunday, June 07, = 2015 7:14 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = new operating question

 

Hi Bill,

I'm always hungry for 'numbers' like that. Can you refresh my memory on = which plane you're flying?

What's your fuel flow during takeoff?

And I'm really interested in your fuel flow at your cruise setting of = 6000 rpm full throttle up at 7500-8000 feet. Do you have an EGT in addition to = your f/a gauge? If so, what's the egt spread between peak and leaned to your = cruise setting of 16-1 f/a ratio (how many degrees lean of peak)?

Having a controllable prop certainly makes it easier to get a full set = of performance numbers, doesn't it?

Many thanks,

Charlie

On 6/7/2015 2:59 PM, Bill Bradburry wrote:

Rich,

I am flying the NA Renesis with MT electric prop and wideband O2 = sensor.

Take off and initial = climb is WOT with 7100 rpm, after about 500 ft AGL, I dial the prop back to 6500 = rpm, still WOT. Cruise climb is WOT and 6000-6200 rpm, and cruise is WOT and 5200-5800 rpm. All climbs are at 12.0-12.5 F/A mixture and cruise is = 15.8-16.0 F/A mixture.

I never move the = throttle off of wide open until I am slowing to enter the pattern for landing. Engine = speed is controlled with the prop and power to some extent with the = mixture.

I have hopes that = after Bobby makes his decision as to whether to go with the turbo or the 20B, he = will give me the other one! :>)

Bill =

From: Rotary motors in aircraft = [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironlin= e.net]
Sent: Sunday, June 07, = 2015 10:25 AM
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = new operating question

Rich, =

My normal, not in a hurry settings. =

38" MP / 7000 rpm for = takeoff and initial climb with F/A 12.5-12.0. Cruise climb 5800 rpm 30-32" MP = F/A 13.5- 12.5. Preferred cruise rpm 4800- 5200 At less than 30" MP and = F/A 15.8-16.0. Full throttle. Prop rpm controls engine rpm and super charger = bypass controls MP. A turbo charger and automotive waste gate would likely = require throttle management during high rpm operations. =

Bobby Hughes =

Super charged Renesis with electric MT = prop.

(New Turbo charger and a 20B on the bench- = still haven't made a decision about upgrading the RV10. = )



Sent from my iPad


On Jun 7, 2015, at 9:34 AM, ARGOLDMAN <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:

Greetings genlepeople of = the rotary pursuasion,

For those of you using variable = pitch (C/S) props, an operating question that has been bugging me. Perhaps the collective wisdom of this group can set my mind at = rest.

In piston aircraft engines, the = concept of running over squared MP vs RPM has been heavily questioned to the = extent that some suggest running at full throttle all the time and controlling = the power output via RPM (within reason). The thought is to, I believe, = eliminate the induction restriction of the butterfly valve increasing the = efficiency.

Now we have a rotor spinning, a = gear box gearing and a propeller propelling. Does this concept hold true for the rotaries. What are people doing in terms of setting power after take off = (full throttle max RPM).

My enquiring and rotating mind = wants to know.

(Unturbocharged Renesis with = RD1-c Box)

Thanks<= o:p>

Rich

 

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