X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com From: "Charlie England" Received: from mail-pa0-f48.google.com ([209.85.220.48] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.1.2) with ESMTPS id 7694950 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Fri, 15 May 2015 22:41:46 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.220.48; envelope-from=ceengland7@gmail.com Received: by pabru16 with SMTP id ru16so42524815pab.1 for ; Fri, 15 May 2015 19:41:10 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references :in-reply-to:content-type; bh=zz0o0gdoaMqsVEgFrBFZsjakSNNJ3AuvjrvNxkSSPmg=; b=XI5yMQro91paYg8QzvW2kTFZzj7AHcoE5u2oPa+tTUNclQIoLVEyx4fiUx8aKFq6oT JB5sZBaFpecA5NT+UOMxy2PA03qV70QXZbar4ig8fNAfsG/Oi9PQUc6xLqagpedOlomN mbN/eZhpjbnuF8gHChxLG2j3/X/KtW+OCV3MdSUcoNrsW8NwFshO3aElRzuP56BtfQUO OEtw/NMHXPSXxjmnzEdMdHQPZw/LIpp3ToTkVouLf/lEigda+fY4AA2AKDibTXkSaGJa 9IDpjGqEfaIJLZTZd609gPVbqTIAUf/30YCZ3QsS49VAkk1u8aGjoT3pUFYpOwj3LrTR Ho1A== X-Received: by 10.66.250.106 with SMTP id zb10mr23798685pac.36.1431744070300; Fri, 15 May 2015 19:41:10 -0700 (PDT) Return-Path: Received: from ?IPv6:2602:306:25fb:5ab9:5d70:1f23:5655:b4eb? ([2602:306:25fb:5ab9:5d70:1f23:5655:b4eb]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id nn6sm3136410pdb.79.2015.05.15.19.41.08 for (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 15 May 2015 19:41:09 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <5556AE9C.4060502@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 15 May 2015 21:42:36 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Return to Flight - 2 References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------000609040605010807070304" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------000609040605010807070304 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Jeff, First, a caution: I'm a long way from flying, so this is untested in flight. But I did a similar thing to what Bobby said, and used a leaf blower to pressurize my rad plenum. I used a thread on a stick to check outflow from the rad core. Looking at the drawing of your wedge plenum, I'd bet that almost all the air is coming out the last 5 or 8 inches of the core. Before I made mine, I asked Tracy about his RV-8 plenum. He said to pinch the back down tight; that he had to stuff open cell foam in the back of his to even the flow, so I did (I thought). He happened to be here as I was getting ready to glass the mold, and commented that it was probably too thick at the rear. (It was *much* tighter than your drawing shows.) Sure enough, when I checked flow, all the air came through the rear of the core. To get even flow from front to back, I re-shaped the inside of the wedge until the last couple of inches almost touch the core. Also, in order to spread flow across the core (side to side, perpendicular to the inlet flow), I had to install a turning vane in the inlet duct. For reference, I'm building an RV-7 with a Sam James cowl made for a Lyc; not the rotary cowl with a chin inlet for the rad. So my ~4.5" round inlet transitions to more or less rectangular cross section with slightly increased area where it arrives at the front edge of the core. Then it's a concave wedge, pinching down to almost a knife edge at the back end of the core. No idea if it will actually cool, but I do know that the airflow coming out of the core is pretty evenly balanced when using the leaf blower to push air through it. Pics below. The trailing edge is a lot thinner than it looks, because there's 'filler' on the inside to thin the wedge. FWIW... Charlie http://s1155.photobucket.com/user/rv7charlie/media/1d6b1e19.jpg.html http://s1155.photobucket.com/user/rv7charlie/media/slobovia12a_zps3194777e.jpg.html http://s1155.photobucket.com/user/rv7charlie/media/pdrop2012_zpscbc0ae13.jpg.html http://s1155.photobucket.com/user/rv7charlie/media/4seatback_zps033399e2.jpg.html http://s1155.photobucket.com/user/rv7charlie/media/Slobovia14_zps413ea84e.jpg.html On 5/15/2015 2:17 PM, Jeff Whaley wrote: > > Actually I don’t have any really good pictures because I took it apart > … but attached is a side-view after removal of the inlet diffuser on > top and also a sketch of approximate scale and shape of what I tried > to make, (I don’t have a damper plate or cowl flap yet). The top > shape isn’t quite right; needs to be pinched more at the rear, also am > considering a turning vane to direct more air through the front half. > Trying to make air bend 90 degrees twice isn’t easy but I chose this > orientation because of the desire to add a damper at the output for > winter operations. I could drop the rear of radiator and bring air in > through the bottom, spilling out over the engine but would lose the > ability to have a damper – I don’t like the idea of inlet dampers. On > top of it all, my climb speed is usually only 90 mph; I don’t have the > ability to get extra pressure from increased airspeed. P.S. the > radiator is the Griffin 2-58185-X, same as several other installs on > this list. > > The top plenum was out in the SUV; hopefully more attachments in next > post … > > Jeff > > From: > > > > David Leonard > > Subject: > > > > Re: [FlyRotary] Return to Flight - 2 > > Date: > > > > Fri, 15 May 2015 09:48:38 -0700 > > To: > > > > Rotary motors in aircraft > > > > Message Header > > > Undecoded Message > > > Sorry to hear that Jeff. My apologies if you have already posted > pictures of the your installation and the diffuser, but could you post > some now? > > Dave Leonard > > On Fri, May 15, 2015 at 8:19 AM, Jeff Whaley > > wrote: > > *From:*Jeff Whaley > *Sent:* Friday, May 15, 2015 11:19 AM > *To:* 'Bobby J. Hughes' > *Subject:* Return to Flight - 2 > > Well, the second flight occurred last night with same results as > before; one short low-level circuit due to insufficient cooling … > looks like Al Wick made the correct prediction. > > There are 3 things I can try with the current configuration: 1) > Increase inlet area 2) Increase outlet area (adjustable cowl flap) 3) > Re-profile the pinched diffuser. I will do all 3 and see what happens. > > If all of the above show remarkable improvement then repositioning the > radiator is the only alternative. > > Jeff > > This message, and the documents attached hereto, is intended only for > the addressee and may contain privileged or confidential information. > Any unauthorized disclosure is strictly prohibited. If you have > received this message in error, please notify us immediately so that > we may correct our internal records. Please then delete the original > message. Thank you. > > > -- > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html --------------000609040605010807070304 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="------------030307070001050203020102" --------------030307070001050203020102 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Hi Jeff,

First, a caution: I'm a long way from flying, so this is untested in flight.

But I did a similar thing to what Bobby said, and used a leaf blower to pressurize my rad plenum. I used a thread on a stick to check outflow from the rad core. Looking at the drawing of your wedge plenum, I'd bet that almost all the air is coming out the last 5 or 8 inches of the core. Before I made mine, I asked Tracy about his RV-8 plenum. He said to pinch the back down tight; that he had to stuff open cell foam in the back of his to even the flow, so I did (I thought). He happened to be here as I was getting ready to glass the mold, and commented that it was probably too thick at the rear. (It was *much* tighter than your drawing shows.) Sure enough, when I checked flow, all the air came through the rear of the core. To get even flow from front to back, I re-shaped the inside of the wedge until the last couple of inches almost touch the core.

Also, in order to spread flow across the core (side to side, perpendicular to the inlet flow), I had to install a turning vane in the inlet duct. For reference, I'm building an RV-7 with a Sam James cowl made for a Lyc; not the rotary cowl with a chin inlet for the rad. So my ~4.5" round inlet transitions to more or less rectangular cross section with slightly increased area where it arrives at the front edge of the core. Then it's a concave wedge, pinching down to almost a knife edge at the back end of the core.

No idea if it will actually cool, but I do know that the airflow coming out of the core is pretty evenly balanced when using the leaf blower to push air through it.

Pics below. The trailing edge is a lot thinner than it looks, because there's 'filler' on the inside to thin the wedge.

FWIW...

Charlie

http://s1155.photobucket.com/user/rv7charlie/media/1d6b1e19.jpg.html
http://s1155.photobucket.com/user/rv7charlie/media/slobovia12a_zps3194777e.jpg.html
http://s1155.photobucket.com/user/rv7charlie/media/pdrop2012_zpscbc0ae13.jpg.html
http://s1155.photobucket.com/user/rv7charlie/media/4seatback_zps033399e2.jpg.html
http://s1155.photobucket.com/user/rv7charlie/media/Slobovia14_zps413ea84e.jpg.html


On 5/15/2015 2:17 PM, Jeff Whaley wrote:

Actually I don’t have any really good pictures because I took it apart … but attached is a side-view after removal of the inlet diffuser on top and also a sketch of approximate scale and shape of what I tried to make, (I don’t have a damper plate or cowl flap yet).  The top shape isn’t quite right; needs to be pinched more at the rear, also am considering a turning vane to direct more air through the front half.  Trying to make air bend 90 degrees twice isn’t easy but I chose this orientation because of the desire to add a damper at the output for winter operations.  I could drop the rear of radiator and bring air in through the bottom, spilling out over the engine but would lose the ability to have a damper – I don’t like the idea of inlet dampers.  On top of it all, my climb speed is usually only 90 mph; I don’t have the ability to get extra pressure from increased airspeed.   P.S. the radiator is the Griffin 2-58185-X, same as several other installs on this list.

The top plenum was out in the SUV; hopefully more attachments in next post …

Jeff

 

From:

David Leonard <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>

Subject:

Re: [FlyRotary] Return to Flight - 2

Date:

Fri, 15 May 2015 09:48:38 -0700

To:

Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>

Message Header

Undecoded Message

Sorry to hear that Jeff.  My apologies if you have already posted pictures of the your installation and the diffuser, but could you post some now?

 

Dave Leonard

 

On Fri, May 15, 2015 at 8:19 AM, Jeff Whaley <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:

From: Jeff Whaley
Sent: Friday, May 15, 2015 11:19 AM
To: 'Bobby J. Hughes'
Subject: Return to Flight - 2

 

Well, the second flight occurred last night with same results as before; one short low-level circuit due to insufficient cooling … looks like Al Wick made the correct prediction.

There are 3 things I can try with the current configuration: 1) Increase inlet area 2) Increase outlet area (adjustable cowl flap) 3) Re-profile the pinched diffuser.  I will do all 3 and see what happens.

If all of the above show remarkable improvement then repositioning the radiator is the only alternative.

Jeff

This message, and the documents attached hereto, is intended only for the addressee and may contain privileged or confidential information. Any unauthorized disclosure is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify us immediately so that we may correct our internal records. Please then delete the original message. Thank you. 

--
Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
Archive and UnSub:   http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html

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