X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com From: "Stephen Izett" Received: from mail-pa0-f42.google.com ([209.85.220.42] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.1.2) with ESMTPS id 7690352 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Thu, 14 May 2015 00:29:57 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.220.42; envelope-from=steveize@gmail.com Received: by pabsx10 with SMTP id sx10so71567391pab.3 for ; Wed, 13 May 2015 21:29:22 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:content-type:message-id:mime-version:subject:date:references :to:in-reply-to; bh=KbNxUTx3IH1oauIYjZR53TJCN/3e6jQSGErLKF2LyLQ=; b=ZxV4ifSvE/+3Agy+XohbxlYbnQmnEOhDcOxMhZhfq53HLmgAqfqHcPUJX8wUdPc6h1 xlSgmH89ZJ2najAbGD30pXevXjHfPeeSLsdY54VFCZb1ypboF8PpyNF7gf+HtMWWidWC eNDKzOgsWI1sWE2oTZLHo6P/5jEvMNEmF5Y2GRq/rlrPc5pN2ZS+PbOViZ1c/WnlUzFC NfKGFHTKKm9x14W3lxwJ/qdrMKmsMoyYue2EjTeQUBtPBrQWD3vIlRfq6qAFez8Rqz3L nE2zuYhb2xBSmcY1TWR3aerXmsIbx/siKqa5ua5U/LTa6yvk0/jGXJGql4Hm7xaENJhr 4tDg== X-Received: by 10.68.197.100 with SMTP id it4mr4127742pbc.143.1431577762262; Wed, 13 May 2015 21:29:22 -0700 (PDT) Return-Path: Received: from [192.168.1.120] (d122-109-125-200.per801.wa.optusnet.com.au. [122.109.125.200]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id b16sm20777020pbu.64.2015.05.13.21.29.18 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Wed, 13 May 2015 21:29:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-Original-From: Stephen Izett Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_12AF44BE-8DE3-481E-B0AD-ED04A9E51A41" Message-Id: <7A6249DC-264E-4870-9CF1-65F6EC22CBBE@icloud.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 8.2 \(2098\)) Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Questions for Ed Anderson- Plugs UP Oil System photo of bottom Date: Thu, 14 May 2015 12:29:13 +0800 References: To: Rotary motors in aircraft In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.2098) --Apple-Mail=_12AF44BE-8DE3-481E-B0AD-ED04A9E51A41 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hi there Andrew God to hear of your progress. We are painting the Glasair SIIRG at present and hope to shift it to = Serpentine in the next month or so. It would be great to see your systems one day. Steve izett > On 14 May 2015, at 8:16 am, Andrew Martin = wrote: >=20 > Bill >=20 > I bought my 20b as a front cut, dealer bought the car in Japan but = laws here meant only private cars can be imported so car was cut in = half. cost AU$5000 for front half. SN C275a 70000 km, apart from the = chop through the pillars and pan. immaculate. >=20 > realized was too much engine for my airframe so bought one of the test = renesis engines, seems ok so far. took plane to airport yesterday for = final assembly, so maybe only couple of years to go! >=20 > Got to find an airframe for the 20b now the workshop is empty. but = don't know what to do about drive and efi/ignition. >=20 > Regards >=20 > Andrew Martin > Western Australia >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > On Thu, May 14, 2015 at 7:03 AM, Bill Bradburry = > = wrote: > So are a lot of folks upgrading to the 20B? >=20 > Where are you finding your engines and to those who don=E2=80=99t mind = disclosing, what are you having to pay for a 20B >=20 > =20 >=20 > I have considered either the 20B or going to a turbo on the Renesis = for my Lancair Legacy. There are pros and cons both way. >=20 > I would like to have an honest 250 HP here and I really stress the = honest. I would like to see a 250-270 HP takeoff at sea level, and a = cruise at 8K ft of close to 200 HP >=20 > =20 >=20 > Bill >=20 > =20 >=20 > From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net = ]=20 > Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2015 12:41 PM > To: Rotary motors in aircraft > Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Questions for Ed Anderson- Plugs UP Oil = System photo of bottom >=20 > =20 >=20 > Bobby, >=20 > =20 >=20 > Curious as to the serial # (A,B,C,D XXX) of your 20B.........I = purchased Rob Johnson's >=20 > unused early (Before reinforced dowel area side plates) 20B serial = #A304 recently... He >=20 > purchased it in about 1997 for his Velocity and did not use = it..........Amazing how small a >=20 > package that 250+ hp is after removing about 100 lbs of turbos and = other unneeded parts=20 >=20 > from it........ >=20 > =20 >=20 > =20 >=20 > Kelly Troyer >=20 > =20 >=20 > On Wed, May 13, 2015 at 11:02 AM, Bobby J. Hughes = > = wrote: >=20 > Kelly, >=20 > =20 >=20 > No weight and balance issues with the RV10 and 20B. The aluminum = plates would be nice but not in the budget. >=20 > =20 >=20 > Bobby >=20 > =20 >=20 > From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net = ]=20 > Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2015 11:17 AM >=20 >=20 > To: Rotary motors in aircraft > Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Questions for Ed Anderson- Plugs UP Oil = System photo of bottom >=20 > =20 >=20 > Bobby, >=20 > Can your ship handle the extra weight or are you thinking of = replacing some of >=20 > the iron side plate with alum plates such as those from "Racing Beat" = ? >=20 > =20 >=20 > Kelly troyer >=20 > =20 >=20 > On Wed, May 13, 2015 at 7:30 AM, Ed Anderson = > = wrote: >=20 > Well, I found that like anything else the Plugs up installation has = its pros and cons. >=20 > =20 >=20 > However, the only real con was the lack of vendor support for Plugs = Up. >=20 > =20 >=20 > Having the exhaust outlet on the bottom simplified plumbing, also = reduce chance of fuel from injectors falling directly on a hot exhaust. = No problem with flooding the engine. I did it a few times, but 4=E2=80=94= 5 revs of the engine pumped all the excess fuel out the exhaust ports = and of course the spark plug holes being on top did not collect fuel. = It also provided room under the cowl for longer intake runners =E2=80=93 = don=E2=80=99t know if that would be the case with the 20B, but assume it = would. >=20 > =20 >=20 > All in all, if I did it again, I would use plugs up everything else = being the same. Oh, yes, much easier to change the spark plugs = {} >=20 > =20 >=20 > I did have to modify Tracy=E2=80=99s PRSU mounting plate slightly =E2=80= =93 moving the starter position.=20 >=20 > =20 >=20 > Good luck on your decision, Bobby =E2=80=93 more power is always hard = to resist {) >=20 > =20 >=20 > Ed >=20 > =20 >=20 > From: Bobby J. Hughes > Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2015 8:04 AM >=20 > To: Rotary motors in aircraft > Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Questions for Ed Anderson- Plugs UP Oil = System photo of bottom >=20 > =20 >=20 > Looks like a good arrangement. I=E2=80=99m still on the fence as to = installing the 20B I purchased a few weeks back. If I do make the swap = I=E2=80=99m considering plugs up as an option. >=20 > =20 >=20 > Bobby >=20 > =20 >=20 > From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net = ]=20 > Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2015 4:50 PM > To: Rotary motors in aircraft > Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Questions for Ed Anderson- Plugs UP Oil = System photo of bottom >=20 > =20 >=20 > Hi Bobby, >=20 > =20 >=20 > Found this old photo of the bottom of the oil pan which may help. The = blue fitting is naturally the drain hole at the lowest part of the sump. >=20 > =20 >=20 > Ed >=20 > =20 >=20 > From: Bobby J. Hughes > Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2015 3:39 PM >=20 > To: Rotary motors in aircraft > Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Questions for Ed Anderson- Plugs UP Oil = System >=20 > =20 >=20 > Thanks Ed. The standoff is not visible in the picture but I had = guessed you did something similar. Any issues with sealing the oil = pickup tube to the block off plate and front iron? >=20 > =20 >=20 > Bobby >=20 > =20 >=20 > From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net = ]=20 > Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2015 3:23 PM > To: Rotary motors in aircraft > Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Questions for Ed Anderson- Plugs UP Oil = System >=20 > =20 >=20 > Hi Bobby, >=20 > =20 >=20 > I believe the things you have the arrows pointing to are triangular = shaped braces that support the oil sump to the oil pan. The are welded = to top of sump and plate. >=20 > =20 >=20 > To access the bolts in the area of the sump, I stood the 4=E2=80=9Dx = 4=E2=80=9D tubing I used for the sump off from the pan about 1 =E2=80=93 = 1 1/2=E2=80=9D. I did this by using a 1=E2=80=9D x 1 1/2=E2=80=9D = rectangular tube (its end=E2=80=99s plugged) welded to both the plate = and the sump. Then 3/4=E2=80=9D dia (I think around 6 holes) holes = were drilled through plate, standoff and sump for the oil to return to = the sump =E2=80=93 probably best to drill holes before welding = components together, but they can be drilled from the inside plate side = =E2=80=93 just make sure you get all shavings out. This stand-off also = gave you access to around 3-4 pan bolts. Depending on your set up these = may or may not be a pain to unscrew, but it can be done. >=20 > =20 >=20 > The round tall blue tube served as oil fill tube and dip stick tube. = It was threaded internally at the top and a threaded plug with a hole = drilled in it for the dip stick was used. >=20 > =20 >=20 > The aluminum tubes were coolant (front) and air/oil separator (which I = took off after two years of flying with it and it collecting no oil, = because the rotary simply was not spitting any out. >=20 > =20 >=20 > Ed >=20 > =20 >=20 > From: Bobby J. Hughes > Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2015 2:57 PM >=20 > To: Rotary motors in aircraft > Subject: [FlyRotary] Questions for Ed Anderson- Plugs UP Oil System >=20 > =20 >=20 > Ed, >=20 > I have a couple of question about your plug up installation. How do = you access the oil pan bolts located behind the oil reservoir and allow = for oil drain back? Also I see what looks like an additional tube (black = arrow) in the attached photo. Can=E2=80=99t figure out what it=E2=80=99s = for. Is it a support bracket? >=20 > =20 >=20 > Thanks, >=20 > =20 >=20 > Bobby Hughes >=20 > =20 >=20 > -- > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > Archive and UnSub: = http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html = > =20 >=20 > =20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > =20 >=20 > =20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > =20 >=20 > =20 >=20 >=20 --Apple-Mail=_12AF44BE-8DE3-481E-B0AD-ED04A9E51A41 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Hi there Andrew
God to hear of your = progress.
We are painting the Glasair SIIRG at = present and hope to shift it to Serpentine in the next month or = so.
It would be great to see your systems one = day.

Steve = izett

On 14 May 2015, at 8:16 am, Andrew Martin = <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:

Bill

I bought my 20b as a front cut, dealer = bought the car in Japan but laws here meant only private cars can be = imported so car was cut in half. cost AU$5000 for front half. SN C275a = 70000 km, apart from the chop through the pillars and pan. = immaculate.

realized was too much = engine for my airframe so bought one of the test renesis engines, seems = ok so far. took plane to airport yesterday for final assembly, so maybe = only couple of years to go!

Got to = find an airframe for the 20b now the workshop is empty.  but don't = know what to do about drive and efi/ignition.

Regards

Andrew = Martin
Western Australia




On Thu, May 14, 2015 at 7:03 = AM, Bill Bradburry <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:

So = are a lot of folks upgrading to the 20B?

Where are you finding your engines and to those who don=E2=80=99t mind disclosing, what are you having to pay for = a 20B

 

I have considered either the 20B or going to a turbo on the Renesis for my Lancair Legacy.  There are pros = and cons both way.

I would like to have an honest 250 HP here and I really stress the honest.  I would like to see a 250-270 HP = takeoff at sea level, and a cruise at 8K ft of close to 200 HP

 

Bill

 

From:= Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]
Sent:= Wednesday, May 13, 2015 12:41 PM
To: = Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Questions for Ed Anderson- Plugs UP Oil System photo of bottom

 

Bobby,

 

  =   Curious as to the serial # (A,B,C,D XXX) of your 20B.........I purchased Rob Johnson's

unused = early (Before reinforced dowel area side plates) 20B serial #A304 recently... He

=

purchased it in about 1997 for his Velocity and did not use it..........Amazing how small a

package = that 250+ hp is after removing about 100 lbs of turbos and other unneeded parts 

from = it........

 

 

Kelly = Troyer

 

On = Wed, May 13, 2015 at 11:02 AM, Bobby J. Hughes <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:

Kelly,

 

No= weight and balance issues with the RV10 and 20B. The aluminum plates would be nice but not in the budget.

 

Bobby

 

From:= Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]
Sent:= Wednesday, May 13, 2015 11:17 AM


To: = Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Questions for Ed Anderson- Plugs UP Oil System photo of bottom

 

Bobby,

  =  Can your ship handle the extra weight or are you thinking of replacing some = of

the = iron side plate with alum plates such as those from "Racing Beat" ?

 

Kelly = troyer

 

On = Wed, May 13, 2015 at 7:30 AM, Ed Anderson <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:

Well, I found that like anything else the Plugs up = installation has its pros and cons.

 

However, the only real con was the lack of vendor support for Plugs Up.

 

Having the exhaust outlet on the bottom simplified plumbing, = also reduce chance of fuel from injectors falling directly on a hot = exhaust.  No problem with flooding the engine.  I did it a few times, but = 4=E2=80=945 revs of the engine pumped all the excess fuel out the exhaust ports and = of course the spark plug holes being on top did not collect fuel.  It = also provided room under the cowl for longer intake runners =E2=80=93 don=E2=80= =99t know if that would be the case with the 20B, but assume it = would.

 

All in all, if I did it again, I would use plugs up = everything else being the same.  Oh, yes, much easier to change the spark = plugs {<image001.gif>}

 

I did have to modify Tracy=E2=80=99s PRSU mounting plate slightly =E2=80=93 moving the starter = position. 

 

Good luck on your decision, Bobby =E2=80=93 more power is = always hard to resist {<image001.gif>)

 

Ed

 

From: Bobby = J. Hughes

Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2015 8:04 AM

To: Rotary = motors in aircraft

Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Questions for Ed Anderson- Plugs UP Oil = System photo of bottom

 

Looks like a good = arrangement. I=E2=80=99m still on the fence as to installing the 20B I purchased a few weeks back. If I do make the = swap I=E2=80=99m considering plugs up as an option.

 

Bobby =

 

From: Rotary motors in aircraft = [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]
Sent:= Tuesday, May 12, 2015 4:50 PM
To: = Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Questions for Ed Anderson- Plugs UP Oil System photo of bottom

 

Hi Bobby,

=

 

Found this old photo of the bottom of the oil pan which may help.  The blue fitting is naturally the drain hole at the lowest = part of the sump.

 

Ed

 

From: Bobby = J. Hughes

Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2015 3:39 PM

To: Rotary = motors in aircraft

Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Questions for Ed Anderson- Plugs UP Oil = System

 

Thanks Ed. The = standoff is not visible in the picture but I had guessed  you did something similar. Any issues with sealing the oil = pickup tube to the block off plate and front iron?

 

Bobby

 

From: Rotary motors in aircraft = [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]
Sent:= Tuesday, May 12, 2015 3:23 PM
To: = Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Questions for Ed Anderson- Plugs UP Oil System

 

Hi Bobby,

=

 

I believe the things you have the arrows pointing to are triangular shaped braces that support the oil sump to the oil pan.  = The are welded to top of sump and plate.

 

To access the bolts in the area of the sump, I stood the = 4=E2=80=9Dx 4=E2=80=9D tubing I used for the sump off from the pan about 1 =E2=80=93 = 1 1/2=E2=80=9D.  I did this by using a 1=E2=80=9D x 1 1/2=E2=80=9D = rectangular tube (its end=E2=80=99s plugged) welded to both the plate and the = sump.  Then 3/4=E2=80=9D dia  (I think around 6 holes) holes were drilled = through plate, standoff and sump for the oil to return to the sump =E2=80=93 = probably best to drill holes before welding components together, but they can be = drilled from the inside plate side =E2=80=93 just make sure you get all shavings out.  This stand-off also gave you access to around 3-4 pan = bolts.  Depending on your set up these may or may not be a pain  to = unscrew, but it can be done.

 

The round tall blue tube served as oil fill tube and dip = stick tube. It was threaded internally at the top and a threaded plug with a = hole drilled in it for the dip stick was used.

 

The aluminum tubes were coolant (front) and air/oil separator (which I took off after two years of flying with it and it collecting no = oil, because the rotary simply was not spitting any out.

 

Ed

 

From: Bobby = J. Hughes

Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2015 2:57 PM

To: Rotary = motors in aircraft

Subject: [FlyRotary] Questions for Ed Anderson- Plugs UP Oil = System

 

Ed,

I have a couple = of question about your plug up installation. How do you access the oil pan bolts located behind the oil reservoir and = allow for oil drain back? Also I see what looks like an additional tube (black = arrow) in the attached photo. Can=E2=80=99t figure out what it=E2=80=99s for. Is = it a  support bracket?

 

Thanks,

 

Bobby = Hughes

 

--
Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
Archive and UnSub:   http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html<= /span>

 

 



 

 



 

 



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