X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com From: "Andrew Martin" Received: from mail-wi0-f175.google.com ([209.85.212.175] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.1.2) with ESMTPS id 7690189 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Wed, 13 May 2015 20:16:55 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.212.175; envelope-from=andrew@martinag.com.au Received: by wicnf17 with SMTP id nf17so75095165wic.1 for ; Wed, 13 May 2015 17:16:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=0ub3kacbi25r3+5EdYtqzOb+X0YHCtyPYKuDY2vn1J8=; b=KAAqSx1pnrX0iiNiIzqKxrETJcyICcIGtGsy0OWKD8Fxtcgd8foUI8lVBLOZ3DyrK/ N63YZ91OVSVTtHtrLWoN6ekR0TemfgaIC/X+iUVqGiPwtxXRdLN1JZuCzgOoHWa5OfRC r1EMA2OxfnJB+HOflhrv3/LAS9FjXU+4waCGs6l5eWNNWAsDE9o1uhyCG5fNuxJDcCR1 h/C2q/O0SqFXPIAuMlqW8IUJFstu/N7fH8z4t30ole+fEXgEbCmCobkaPivGU21/fGyd wngshAvS5UFvxGuPDNUMz/lEhdWPg1+gtBXuMcj6r97wLYyzSBRv6h7Xf8H+/NpdHCv0 fh9g== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQmGOLDWxKGNZBcw4IwyeHIfeMchc9HnHWXvoWwnvyz4ihGUQqbiMv+oR+TxZ1ZpAmBWxCI8 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.180.91.40 with SMTP id cb8mr43044836wib.64.1431562580832; Wed, 13 May 2015 17:16:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.27.214.18 with HTTP; Wed, 13 May 2015 17:16:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Originating-IP: [202.40.0.40] In-Reply-To: References: Date: Thu, 14 May 2015 08:16:20 +0800 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Questions for Ed Anderson- Plugs UP Oil System photo of bottom To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary=f46d043c7e781b8cae0515ffa3dd --f46d043c7e781b8cae0515ffa3dd Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=f46d043c7e781b8cab0515ffa3dc --f46d043c7e781b8cab0515ffa3dc Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Bill I bought my 20b as a front cut, dealer bought the car in Japan but laws here meant only private cars can be imported so car was cut in half. cost AU$5000 for front half. SN C275a 70000 km, apart from the chop through the pillars and pan. immaculate. realized was too much engine for my airframe so bought one of the test renesis engines, seems ok so far. took plane to airport yesterday for final assembly, so maybe only couple of years to go! Got to find an airframe for the 20b now the workshop is empty. but don't know what to do about drive and efi/ignition. Regards Andrew Martin Western Australia On Thu, May 14, 2015 at 7:03 AM, Bill Bradburry wrote: > So are a lot of folks upgrading to the 20B? > > Where are you finding your engines and to those who don=E2=80=99t mind di= sclosing, > what are you having to pay for a 20B > > > > I have considered either the 20B or going to a turbo on the Renesis for m= y > Lancair Legacy. There are pros and cons both way. > > I would like to have an honest 250 HP here and I really stress the > honest. I would like to see a 250-270 HP takeoff at sea level, and a > cruise at 8K ft of close to 200 HP > > > > Bill > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] > *Sent:* Wednesday, May 13, 2015 12:41 PM > *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft > *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: Questions for Ed Anderson- Plugs UP Oil System > photo of bottom > > > > Bobby, > > > > Curious as to the serial # (A,B,C,D XXX) of your 20B.........I > purchased Rob Johnson's > > unused early (Before reinforced dowel area side plates) 20B serial #A304 > recently... He > > purchased it in about 1997 for his Velocity and did not use > it..........Amazing how small a > > package that 250+ hp is after removing about 100 lbs of turbos and other > unneeded parts > > from it........ > > > > > > Kelly Troyer > > > > On Wed, May 13, 2015 at 11:02 AM, Bobby J. Hughes < > flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: > > Kelly, > > > > No weight and balance issues with the RV10 and 20B. The aluminum plates > would be nice but not in the budget. > > > > Bobby > > > > *From:* Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] > *Sent:* Wednesday, May 13, 2015 11:17 AM > > > *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft > *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: Questions for Ed Anderson- Plugs UP Oil System > photo of bottom > > > > Bobby, > > Can your ship handle the extra weight or are you thinking of replacing > some of > > the iron side plate with alum plates such as those from "Racing Beat" ? > > > > Kelly troyer > > > > On Wed, May 13, 2015 at 7:30 AM, Ed Anderson > wrote: > > Well, I found that like anything else the Plugs up installation has its > pros and cons. > > > > However, the only real con was the lack of vendor support for Plugs Up. > > > > Having the exhaust outlet on the bottom simplified plumbing, also reduce > chance of fuel from injectors falling directly on a hot exhaust. No > problem with flooding the engine. I did it a few times, but 4=E2=80=945 = revs of > the engine pumped all the excess fuel out the exhaust ports and of course > the spark plug holes being on top did not collect fuel. It also provided > room under the cowl for longer intake runners =E2=80=93 don=E2=80=99t kno= w if that would be > the case with the 20B, but assume it would. > > > > All in all, if I did it again, I would use plugs up everything else being > the same. Oh, yes, much easier to change the spark plugs {[image: > Open-mouthed smile]} > > > > I did have to modify Tracy=E2=80=99s PRSU mounting plate slightly =E2=80= =93 moving the > starter position. > > > > Good luck on your decision, Bobby =E2=80=93 more power is always hard to = resist {[image: > Open-mouthed smile]) > > > > Ed > > > > *From:* Bobby J. Hughes > > *Sent:* Wednesday, May 13, 2015 8:04 AM > > *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft > > *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: Questions for Ed Anderson- Plugs UP Oil System > photo of bottom > > > > Looks like a good arrangement. I=E2=80=99m still on the fence as to insta= lling the > 20B I purchased a few weeks back. If I do make the swap I=E2=80=99m consi= dering > plugs up as an option. > > > > Bobby > > > > *From:* Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] > *Sent:* Tuesday, May 12, 2015 4:50 PM > *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft > *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: Questions for Ed Anderson- Plugs UP Oil System > photo of bottom > > > > Hi Bobby, > > > > Found this old photo of the bottom of the oil pan which may help. The > blue fitting is naturally the drain hole at the lowest part of the sump. > > > > Ed > > > > *From:* Bobby J. Hughes > > *Sent:* Tuesday, May 12, 2015 3:39 PM > > *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft > > *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: Questions for Ed Anderson- Plugs UP Oil System > > > > Thanks Ed. The standoff is not visible in the picture but I had guessed > you did something similar. Any issues with sealing the oil pickup tube to > the block off plate and front iron? > > > > Bobby > > > > *From:* Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net > ] > *Sent:* Tuesday, May 12, 2015 3:23 PM > *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft > *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: Questions for Ed Anderson- Plugs UP Oil System > > > > Hi Bobby, > > > > I believe the things you have the arrows pointing to are triangular shape= d > braces that support the oil sump to the oil pan. The are welded to top o= f > sump and plate. > > > > To access the bolts in the area of the sump, I stood the 4=E2=80=9Dx 4=E2= =80=9D tubing I > used for the sump off from the pan about 1 =E2=80=93 1 1/2=E2=80=9D. I d= id this by using a > 1=E2=80=9D x 1 1/2=E2=80=9D rectangular tube (its end=E2=80=99s plugged) = welded to both the plate > and the sump. Then 3/4=E2=80=9D dia (I think around 6 holes) holes were= drilled > through plate, standoff and sump for the oil to return to the sump =E2=80= =93 > probably best to drill holes before welding components together, but they > can be drilled from the inside plate side =E2=80=93 just make sure you ge= t all > shavings out. This stand-off also gave you access to around 3-4 pan > bolts. Depending on your set up these may or may not be a pain to > unscrew, but it can be done. > > > > The round tall blue tube served as oil fill tube and dip stick tube. It > was threaded internally at the top and a threaded plug with a hole drille= d > in it for the dip stick was used. > > > > The aluminum tubes were coolant (front) and air/oil separator (which I > took off after two years of flying with it and it collecting no oil, > because the rotary simply was not spitting any out. > > > > Ed > > > > *From:* Bobby J. Hughes > > *Sent:* Tuesday, May 12, 2015 2:57 PM > > *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft > > *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Questions for Ed Anderson- Plugs UP Oil System > > > > Ed, > > I have a couple of question about your plug up installation. How do you > access the oil pan bolts located behind the oil reservoir and allow for o= il > drain back? Also I see what looks like an additional tube (black arrow) i= n > the attached photo. Can=E2=80=99t figure out what it=E2=80=99s for. Is it= a support > bracket? > > > > Thanks, > > > > Bobby Hughes > > > ------------------------------ > > -- > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > Archive and UnSub: > http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html > ------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --f46d043c7e781b8cab0515ffa3dc Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Bill

I bought my 20b as a fron= t cut, dealer bought the car in Japan but laws here meant only private cars= can be imported so car was cut in half. cost AU$5000 for front half. SN C2= 75a 70000 km, apart from the chop through the pillars and pan. immaculate.<= br>
realized was too much engine for my airframe so bought one of = the test renesis engines, seems ok so far. took plane to airport yesterday = for final assembly, so maybe only couple of years to go!

Got t= o find an airframe for the 20b now the workshop is empty.=C2=A0 but don'= ;t know what to do about drive and efi/ignition.

Regards

An= drew Martin
Western Australia




On Thu, May 14, 2015 at 7:03 AM, Bill Bradbu= rry <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:

So are a lot of fo= lks upgrading to the 20B?

Where are you find= ing your engines and to those who don=E2=80=99t mind disclosing, what are you having to pay for a 2= 0B

=C2=A0

I have considered = either the 20B or going to a turbo on the Renesis for my Lancair Legacy.=C2=A0 There are pros and c= ons both way.

I would like to ha= ve an honest 250 HP here and I really stress the honest.=C2=A0 I would like to see a 250-270 HP take= off at sea level, and a cruise at 8K ft of close to 200 HP=

=C2=A0

Bill

=C2=A0

From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:fl= yrotary@lancaironline.net]
Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 201= 5 12:41 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Que= stions for Ed Anderson- Plugs UP Oil System photo of bottom

=C2=A0

Bobby,

=C2=A0

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Curious as to the serial # (A,B,C,D XX= X) of your 20B.........I purchased Rob Johnson's

unused early (Before reinforced dowel area side plat= es) 20B serial #A304 recently... He

purchased it in about 1997 for his Velocity and did = not use it..........Amazing how small a

package that 250+ hp is after removing about 100 lbs= of turbos and other unneeded parts=C2=A0

from it........

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Kelly Troyer

=C2=A0

On Wed, May 13, 2015 at 11:02 AM, Bobby J. Hughes &l= t;flyrotar= y@lancaironline.net> wrote:

= Kelly,

= =C2=A0

= No weigh= t and balance issues with the RV10 and 20B. The aluminum plates would be nice but not in the budget. <= u>

= =C2=A0

= Bobby

= =C2=A0

From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:fl= yrotary@lancaironline.net]
Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 201= 5 11:17 AM


To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Que= stions for Ed Anderson- Plugs UP Oil System photo of bottom

=C2=A0

Bobby,

=C2=A0 =C2=A0Can your ship handle the extra weight or are you thinking of replacing some of<= u>

the iron side plate with alum plates such as those from "Racing Beat" ?<= u>

=C2=A0

Kelly troyer

=C2=A0

On Wed, May 13, 2015 at 7:30 AM, Ed Anderson <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:=

Well, I found th= at like anything else the Plugs up installation has its pros and cons.

=C2=A0

However, the onl= y real con was the lack of vendor support for Plugs Up.

=C2=A0

Having the exhau= st outlet on the bottom simplified plumbing, also reduce chance of fuel from injectors falling directly on a hot exhaust.=C2= =A0 No problem with flooding the engine.=C2=A0 I did it a few times, but 4=E2= =80=945 revs of the engine pumped all the excess fuel out the exhaust ports and of course the spark plug holes being on top did not collect fuel.=C2=A0 It als= o provided room under the cowl for longer intake runners =E2=80=93 don=E2=80= =99t know if that would be the case with the 20B, but assume it would.<= u>

=C2=A0

All in all, if I= did it again, I would use plugs up everything else being the same.=C2=A0 Oh, yes, much easier to change the spark plugs {= 3D"Open-mouthed}

=C2=A0

I did have to mo= dify Tracy=E2=80=99s PRSU mounting plate slightly =E2=80=93 moving the starter position.=C2=A0 <= /span>

=C2=A0

Good luck on you= r decision, Bobby =E2=80=93 more power is always hard to resist {3D"Open=)<= /u>

=C2=A0

Ed=

=C2=A0<= /font>

Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2015 8:04 AM

Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Questions for Ed Anderson- Plu= gs UP Oil System photo of bottom

=C2=A0

Looks like a good ar= rangement. I=E2=80=99m still on the fence as to installing the 20B I purchased a few weeks back. If I do make the swap I=E2=80=99m considering plugs up as an option. =

=C2=A0=

Bobby =

=C2=A0=

= From: = Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]
Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2015 = 4:50 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Que= stions for Ed Anderson- Plugs UP Oil System photo of bottom

=C2=A0=

Hi Bobby,=

=C2=A0

Found this old p= hoto of the bottom of the oil pan which may help.=C2=A0 The blue fitting is naturally the drain hole at the lowest part= of the sump.

=C2=A0

Ed=

=C2=A0<= /font>

Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2015 3:39 PM=

Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Questions for Ed Anderson- Plu= gs UP Oil System

=C2=A0=

Thanks Ed. The stand= off is not visible in the picture but I had guessed=C2=A0 you did something similar. Any issues with sealing the oil pi= ckup tube to the block off plate and front iron?

=C2=A0=

Bobby<= u>

=C2=A0=

= From: = Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]
Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2015 = 3:23 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Que= stions for Ed Anderson- Plugs UP Oil System

=C2=A0=

Hi Bobby,=

=C2=A0

I believe the th= ings you have the arrows pointing to are triangular shaped braces that support the oil sump to the oil pan.=C2=A0 Th= e are welded to top of sump and plate.

=C2=A0

To access the bo= lts in the area of the sump, I stood the 4=E2=80=9Dx 4=E2=80=9D tubing I used for the sump off from the pan about 1 =E2=80=93 1 1/2=E2=80=9D.=C2=A0 I did this by using a 1=E2=80=9D x 1 1/2=E2=80=9D recta= ngular tube (its end=E2=80=99s plugged) welded to both the plate and the sump.=C2= =A0 Then 3/4=E2=80=9D dia=C2=A0 (I think around 6 holes) holes were drilled thr= ough plate, standoff and sump for the oil to return to the sump =E2=80=93 probab= ly best to drill holes before welding components together, but they can be dri= lled from the inside plate side =E2=80=93 just make sure you get all shavings out.=C2=A0 This stand-off also gave you access to around 3-4 pan bolts.=C2= =A0 Depending on your set up these may or may not be a pain=C2=A0 to unscrew, b= ut it can be done.

=C2=A0

The round tall b= lue tube served as oil fill tube and dip stick tube. It was threaded internally at the top and a threaded plug with a hole drilled in it for the dip stick was used.

=C2=A0

The aluminum tub= es were coolant (front) and air/oil separator (which I took off after two years of flying with it and it collecting no oi= l, because the rotary simply was not spitting any out.=

=C2=A0

Ed=

=C2=A0<= /font>

Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2015 2:57 PM=

Subject: [FlyRotary] Questions for Ed Anderson- Plugs U= P Oil System

=C2=A0=

Ed,

I have a couple of ques= tion about your plug up installation. How do you access the oil pan bolts located behind the oil reservoir and allow = for oil drain back? Also I see what looks like an additional tube (black arrow)= in the attached photo. Can=E2=80=99t figure out what it=E2=80=99s for. Is it a= =C2=A0 support bracket?

=C2=A0=

Thanks,

=C2=A0=

Bobby Hughes

=C2=A0=

--
Homepage:=C2=A0 htt= p://www.flyrotary.com/
Archive and UnSub:=C2=A0=C2=A0 http://mail.lancaironline.net:= 81/lists/flyrotary/List.html

=C2=A0

=C2=A0



=C2=A0

=C2=A0



=C2=A0

=C2=A0


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