Mailing List flyrotary@lancaironline.net Message #61551
From: Jeff Whaley <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] swirl / expansion tank configuration
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2015 15:13:58 +0000
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>

Hi James:

Yes, we have discussed Evans Water and other items on this list before – the general consensus is there is no advantage to these products over 50/50 glycol/water.

I think what Mazda used in the car is very similar to what we are using in aircraft applications except we have modified our coolant systems (water pump outlet and inlets) largely because we use non-standard radiators and also in many cases to reduce overall engine height .  The connections you have - we don’t, so we made our own.

The air-bleed line in my system is normally connected to the intake manifold and protrudes up out of the iron casting closest to the transmission.  The other line in my diagram is a connection added to a custom filler port above my water pump outlet.  Both lines are effectively doing the same job – removing trapped air from the block; in level flight they are both about the same height above the block but during climb and typically highest engine performance, the block connection is at the front and therefore the highest point.  The stock Mazda water pump housing had a filler neck/pressure cap and overflow port built into it; I had to remove all that to turn the outlet port 90 degrees.

Jeff

 

From:

James R. Osborn <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>

Subject:

Re: [FlyRotary] swirl / expansion tank configuration

Date:

Thu, 29 Jan 2015 16:38:23 -0800

To:

Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>

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You guys are really confusing me!  Granted all my rotary work so far is on my car.  Once upon a time, my car had an AST (air separator tank).  It was a small round job next to the radiator, maybe 3 inches OD, 3 or 4 inches tall.  I’m thinking it served similar purposes to the swirl tank in your designs?  Mazda made it of plastic and it had a nasty tendency to burst after aging in the heat soaked engine bay long enough.  Most Rx-7 owners including myself, removed the AST system - others replaced it with aftermarket aluminum versions.  As I recall it had a tube at the bottom that went downwards to an extra nipple on the bottom of the radiator, but I forget where the input came from.  I am wondering how this system compares to the ones you are describing?  Where is the pump in the last figure (Steve vs Jeff)?  And where is the “airbleed hose” bleeding air from?  Is the idea that it is just a high point in the system that continuously is drawing out any air bubbles that get created or trapped in the system?

 

I have to ask another related question - why not use Evans waterless coolant?  I think we discussed it a bit before.  It seems like the expansion/contraction is a lot smaller because it boils at a much higher temperature than standard coolant/water mix.  I run this in my car now, but my car is a project car that hasn’t gotten enough serious abuse to have more opinions on the efficacy of Evans.  But I believe that Rotax engines use it - so aircraft use is not beyond the pale.  I am just wondering if all this (seeming) complexity in the cooling system arrangement would be needed if a waterless coolant were used.

 

— James

 

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