X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com From: "Tracy" Received: from mail-ob0-f173.google.com ([209.85.214.173] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0.9e) with ESMTPS id 6915955 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 02 Jun 2014 13:39:17 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.214.173; envelope-from=rwstracy@gmail.com Received: by mail-ob0-f173.google.com with SMTP id wm4so4922470obc.32 for ; Mon, 02 Jun 2014 10:38:43 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=subject:references:from:content-type:in-reply-to:message-id:date:to :content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=3OXmolQk9OkgVJTsGf3Bin65nRx1aQeK+F9Mk4z14gw=; b=dI7Euxayn/+QB0VjYDTkyGrl7Rr4ZhCvjoAp4fvcbMI6U2ynT4grDdLMmcQGiTwe6i 0JqK/4/CWlfOCC2EPzWwYoDPwppNiEBz8Awm1aTCxWGhsUMtKrzNtvdgu2f4aRMQRC2m +b+hqvgzfi+emmyuMo8uGFxfwZuS2H+2C22l/teUPP4MJgGPjfKKQAIrUEOWt/60wecj SX2Cbxf0H32FSCh+Xd29pKXDVymD/KwXyKpx/D2ADNmfbFciNcBu5gXHokBP3/7QnheH CW7bIJUqDakta3RuLmRknoGd0NUpSdwZS6RxZzjv6ToPYuscFbS7W5p5ISZZtQJPgFrO AkbQ== X-Received: by 10.60.73.97 with SMTP id k1mr39931506oev.54.1401730722867; Mon, 02 Jun 2014 10:38:42 -0700 (PDT) Return-Path: Received: from [192.168.1.3] (225.sub-70-196-197.myvzw.com. [70.196.197.225]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id el14sm49374790oeb.6.2014.06.02.10.38.39 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Mon, 02 Jun 2014 10:38:41 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] RD1 - C Questions References: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-C8D5D871-BA1F-44E2-8483-4218FF1D095D X-Mailer: iPad Mail (11D201) In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <2F45BD1C-A18D-4827-A3ED-8BE8502902E2@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2014 11:38:35 -0600 To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) --Apple-Mail-C8D5D871-BA1F-44E2-8483-4218FF1D095D Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Dennis, I've only had occasion to remove the retainer one time and didn't have t= he right tooling to press it off so I destroyed the bearing retainer in the p= rocess. Any good machine shop should have the tooling so use whatever meth= od they recommend. You can order replacement retainers at Mark Williams en= terprises. Google will find contact info. At 600 hours I would not be concerned about 5/8" total system lash if everyt= hing looks OK inside. Tracy Sent from my iPad > On Jun 1, 2014, at 21:39, "Dennis Havarlah" w= rote: >=20 > Tracy, > I hope you are doing well. I'm sorry I could not attend the fly-in at Char= lie England's. I really wanted to be there with all the guys! > =20 > When running my Renesis powered RV -7A on the ground at idle (1600 rpm) I n= oticed a random tick noise in the front bearing area of the RD1 - C When pro= p rpm was increased to 2000 rpm the noise went away. I removed the prop outp= ut shaft and had several mechanics inspect the bearing and none thought it w= as bad. I have purchased a replacement bearing (MRC #209SZZ) and still want t= o replace the bearing. The bearing has a bearing retainer ring (part # 5850= 5 R) pressed on the shaft against the bearing. The machine shop wants to he= at the 58505 R retainer and press it and the old bearing off - then reuse th= e bearing retainer with the new bearing - is this OK or should I get a new r= etainer? If I need a new retainer who supplies them? > =20 > My prop gear lash has increased from about 3/8 in. when new to about 5/8 i= n with 600 hrs. of run time. After disassembly of the RD1- C it appears the i= nput shaft spline has a very small amount of play between it and the flex pl= ate spline. Is this any problem? No noticeable play was found in the planeta= ry gear system. > =20 > Thanks, > Dennis Haverlah > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Stephen Izett > To: Rotary motors in aircraft > Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2014 8:11 AM > Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Re [Fly Rotary]: start >=20 > Thanks very much Jeff > The engine is a Renesis 4 port, it was one of a batch of Mazda=E2=80=99s t= est engines that a number of us here in Australia purchased. > We have done nothing to it internally as yet. >=20 > We have an expansion tank being welded up and when we install it hopefully= this weekend we will then pressure test and compression test to ascertain p= rimary engine health parameters. >=20 > Cheers > Steve Izett >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >> On 27 May 2014, at 8:53 pm, Jeff Whaley wro= te: >>=20 >> Steve, attached is the Hanover cooling system diagram =E2=80=A6 note all t= he cooling elements (radiator, hoses, filler bottle) are completely full of g= lycol (green); only the expansion tank (approx 1 litre, with stant lever cap= ) has room for air, filled only about 1/3. The location of the expansion ta= nk is shown higher than everything else in the diagram but can actually be l= ocated lower; what is important is the connections be as shown, i.e., highes= t point of saturated cooling system connects to bottom of expansion tank, ex= pansion tank is only 1/3 full and this is where you install the pressure cap= . Attached is also a photo of my swirl-pot/expansion-tank; note it is not t= he highest point in the system; the bottom connects to the highest point (wa= ter pump outlet); the top is connected to an tire valve for pressurization a= nd also the system pressure gauge. Not shown but later installed, is the rea= r iron (closest to prop) was T=E2=80=99d into the TOP port of the expansion t= ank with 1/8=E2=80=9D restrictors in hose to remove air from the engine bloc= k. >> Gurgling sounds are not good; there are two o-rings per iron, per rotor h= ousing. The inner is the combustion o-ring and the outer is the water-jacket= o-ring. If you are getting gurgling sounds then it is possible that coolan= t is getting past the compression o-ring into the combustion chamber. This c= an be checked easily but removing your exhaust, turning over the engine by h= and and watching for signs of coolant being expelled when the apex seals pas= s over the exhaust port. If there is a milky film on the dip stick then it i= s possible that coolant is also getting past the coolant o-ring at bottom of= engine and leaking into the oil sump. Either situation if true constitutes= an engine tear-down and rebuild. The Bruce-T video is what I used to overh= aul my engine/s. >> This leads to the question: =E2=80=9CWhere did your engine come from and w= hat was done to it prior to installation on your project=E2=80=9D? >> Jeff >> From: >> "steve Izett" >> Subject: >> start >> Date: >> Sat, 24 May 2014 07:57:48 +0800 >> To: >> Rotary motors in aircraft >> >>=20 >> >> Hi guys >>=20 >> We are just finishing our Glasair SIIRG with a Renesis 4 port. >> Started her up after finishing main wiring and she burst into life. (with= out prop at the moment). >> ~70psi oil pressure oil and water temps building. Ran it for 5 mins or so= before shutdown not wanting temps above 200. >> We worked out that if we lifted the tail up we could get some more air ou= t and water in. >> I have some questions/concerns: >>=20 >> 1. Gurgling sound emanating from oil filler/breather with white substance= on the oil dip stick. Concerned water may be getting into sump. What are th= e symptoms of o-ring failure? So much to learn re rotaries. >>=20 >> 2. If we do need to tear it down, any great sources of how to go about it= . Remembering years ago seeing Bruce T had a video? >>=20 >> 3. We are working on an expansion tank design and wondered if someone cou= ld share the important elements of a good cooling system design. Looking at p= hotos of other aircraft I=E2=80=99ve seen lines to expansion tanks from A. R= ear iron port. B. Radiator tank top. etc. A. Is height of tank significant? B= . Volume required? C. How much air should be left in the tank? D. Cap style?= . >>=20 >> So much appreciate having this list. >>=20 >>=20 >> Steve Izett >> Perth Western Australia =20 >> This message, and the documents attached hereto, is intended only for the= addressee and may contain privileged or confidential information. Any unaut= horized disclosure is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message= in error, please notify us immediately so that we may correct our internal r= ecords. Please then delete the original message. Thank you. -- >> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >> Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/Lis= t.html >=20 > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 2014.0.4592 / Virus Database: 3950/7568 - Release Date: 05/26/14 --Apple-Mail-C8D5D871-BA1F-44E2-8483-4218FF1D095D Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Dennis,
    I'v= e only had occasion to remove the retainer one time and didn't have the righ= t tooling to press it off so I destroyed the bearing retainer in the process= .   Any good machine shop should have the tooling so use whatever metho= d they recommend.   You can order replacement retainers at Mark William= s enterprises.   Google will find contact info.

At 600 hours I would not be concerned about 5/8" total system lash if ever= ything looks OK inside.

Tracy

Sent from my i= Pad

On Jun 1, 2014, at 21:39, "Dennis Havarlah" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wro= te:

Tracy,
I hope you are doing well. I'm sorry I c= ould not=20 attend the fly-in at Charlie England's. I really wanted to be there with all= the=20 guys!
 
When running my Renesis powered RV -7A o= n the=20 ground at idle (1600 rpm) I noticed a random tick noise in the front bearing= =20 area of the RD1 - C When prop rpm was increased to 2000 rpm the noise went a= way.=20 I removed the prop output shaft and had several mechanics inspect the bearin= g=20 and none thought it was bad. I have purchased a replacement bearing (MRC=20 #209SZZ) and still want to replace the bearing.  The bearing has a bear= ing=20 retainer ring (part # 58505 R) pressed on the shaft against the bearing.&nbs= p;=20 The machine shop wants to heat the 58505 R retainer and press it and the old= =20 bearing off - then reuse the bearing retainer with the new bearing - is this= OK=20 or should I get a new retainer? If I need a new retainer who supplies=20 them?
 
My prop gear lash has increased from ab= out 3/8 in.=20 when new to about 5/8 in with 600 hrs. of run time. After disassembly of the= =20 RD1- C it appears the input shaft spline has a very small amount of play bet= ween=20 it and the flex plate spline. Is this any problem? No noticeable play was fo= und=20 in the planetary gear system.
 
Thanks,
Dennis Haverlah
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Stephen Izett
Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2014 8:11 AM=
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Re [Fly Ro= tary]:=20 start

Thanks very much Jeff
The engine is a Renesis 4 port, it was one of a batch of Mazda=E2=80=99= s test=20 engines that a number of us here in Australia purchased.
We have done nothing to it internally as yet.

We have an expansion tank being welded up and when we install it=20 hopefully this weekend we will then pressure test and compression test to=20= ascertain primary engine health parameters.

Cheers
Steve Izett




On 27 May 2014, at 8:53 pm, Jeff Whaley <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>=20 wrote:

Steve,=20 attached is the Hanover cooling system diagram =E2=80=A6 note all the co= oling=20 elements (radiator, hoses, filler bottle) are completely full of glycol=20= (green); only the expansion tank (approx 1 litre, with stant lever cap) h= as=20 room for air, filled only about 1/3.  The location of the expansion= =20 tank is shown higher than everything else in the diagram but can actuall= y be=20 located lower; what is important is the connections be as shown, i.e.,=20= highest point of saturated cooling system connects to bottom of expansio= n=20 tank, expansion tank is only 1/3 full and this is where you install the=20= pressure cap.  Attached is also a photo of my swirl-pot/expansion-t= ank;=20 note it is not the highest point in the system; the bottom connects to t= he=20 highest point (water pump outlet); the top is connected to an tire valve= for=20 pressurization and also the system pressure gauge. Not shown but later=20= installed, is the rear iron (closest to prop) was T=E2=80=99d into the T= OP port of=20 the expansion tank with 1/8=E2=80=9D restrictors in hose to remove air f= rom the=20 engine block.
Gurgling=20 sounds are not good; there are two o-rings per iron, per rotor housing. T= he=20 inner is the combustion o-ring and the outer is the water-jacket=20 o-ring.  If you are getting gurgling sounds then it is possible tha= t=20 coolant is getting past the compression o-ring into the combustion chamb= er.=20 This can be checked easily but removing your exhaust, turning over the=20= engine by hand and watching for signs of coolant being expelled when the= =20 apex seals pass over the exhaust port.  If there is a milky film on= the=20 dip stick then it is possible that coolant is also getting past the cool= ant=20 o-ring at bottom of engine and leaking into the oil sump.  Either=20= situation if true constitutes an engine tear-down and rebuild.  The= =20 Bruce-T video is what I used to overhaul my engine/s.
This=20 leads to the question: =E2=80=9CWhere did your engine come from and what= was done to=20 it prior to installation on your project=E2=80=9D?
Jeff
This=20 message, and the documents attached hereto, is intended only for the=20 addressee and may contain privileged or confidential information. Any=20= unauthorized disclosure is strictly prohibited. If you have received thi= s=20 message in error, please notify us immediately so that we may correct ou= r=20 internal records. Please then delete the original message. Thank you. <Lynns=20 Plumbing.jpg><Tank2.jpg>--
Homepage:=20  http://www.flyrotary.com/
Archive=20 and UnSub:   ht= tp://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html

No virus found in this=20= message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2014.0.4592 / Virus=20 Database: 3950/7568 - Release Date: 05/26/14

= --Apple-Mail-C8D5D871-BA1F-44E2-8483-4218FF1D095D--
<image= 001.gif>

<image002.gif>
Hi=20 guys

We are just=20 finishing our Glasair SIIRG with a Renesis 4 port.
Started her up=20 after finishing main wiring and she burst into life. (without prop= at=20 the moment).
~70psi oil=20 pressure oil and water temps building. Ran it for 5 mins or so bef= ore=20 shutdown not wanting temps above 200.
We worked out that=20 if we lifted the tail up we could get some more air out and water=20= in.
I= have some=20 questions/concerns:1. Gurgling sound=20 emanating from oil filler/breather with white substance on the oil= dip=20 stick. Concerned water may be getting into sump. What are the symp= toms=20 of o-ring failure? So much to learn re rotaries.

2. If we do need=20 to tear it down, any great sources of how to go about it. Remember= ing=20 years ago seeing Bruce T had a video?

3. We are working=20 on an expansion tank design and wondered if someone could share th= e=20 important elements of a good cooling system design. Looking at pho= tos=20 of other aircraft I=E2=80=99ve seen lines to expansion tanks from A= . Rear iron=20 port. B. Radiator tank top. etc. A. Is height of tank significant?= B.=20 Volume required? C. How much air should be left in the tank? D. Ca= p=20 style?.

So much appreciate=20 having this list.


Steve=20 Izett
= Perth Western=20 Australia