X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com From: "Charlie England" Received: from mail-ie0-f171.google.com ([209.85.223.171] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0.9e) with ESMTPS id 6915530 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 02 Jun 2014 10:09:04 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.223.171; envelope-from=ceengland7@gmail.com Received: by mail-ie0-f171.google.com with SMTP id to1so4483189ieb.16 for ; Mon, 02 Jun 2014 07:08:29 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references :in-reply-to:content-type; bh=3uRbb7tANdcoZiCRu7Cl+PQ0eLa313QuIF3MDcTCfug=; b=scnnDoZN/lnuDZOqbIpRwjPGbzFVdNgTk932mUxZS/dV9nTJnxdWbgwL9wehR9gBRe Xan43FC0El8y7Gt5/oky4RdnSeiyNz8yKRYhZDjWQF8tMbPNhICk2VrjwyOz402pnE65 Kfv3bc2AKVF6Knn6ChCleilUIVsekma7AhnDC2xMCpJSbN+80D2LtcUsFRtKks68jdMz 1LwId3r85T64DIV9+fZMXeKQ73OSrtPU73zOGe5fyNQ2mkcvOzallO+7C/fZQW3dH+Mr +JF63pdQ6yc4nIKWbJNFAz20aQazmqrWTgBdU4+RVE3ndsJnd6DzF6t6voEOULOQLby8 qq4Q== X-Received: by 10.50.92.42 with SMTP id cj10mr19698306igb.34.1401718109468; Mon, 02 Jun 2014 07:08:29 -0700 (PDT) Return-Path: Received: from ?IPv6:2602:306:25fb:a3c9:9542:f3d3:8d9c:fedb? ([2602:306:25fb:a3c9:9542:f3d3:8d9c:fedb]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id qh3sm29046322igb.17.2014.06.02.07.08.26 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Mon, 02 Jun 2014 07:08:28 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <538C8569.70900@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2014 09:08:41 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.5.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: flyrotary Subject: Fwd: [FlyRotary] RD1 - C Questions (off list) References: In-Reply-To: X-Forwarded-Message-Id: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------080609000405020907010600" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------080609000405020907010600 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Dennis, Tracy's in CO, so you may not get a quick response. He came through here Thurs nite, so probably got to CO Sat nite or Sun. I've got no clue on what Tracy would recommend on pressing off the retainer, but when I rebuilt a GM 4 speed transmission about 45 years ago, the machine shop just pressed off a bearing (actually synchro ring) retainer without heat (no charge for a broke 19 yr old). I 'pressed' it back on with a piece of water pipe and a hammer. :-) Please keep us updated; that's disconcerting news when I haven't started my engine yet. Charlie -------- Original Message -------- Subject: [FlyRotary] RD1 - C Questions Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2014 22:39:49 -0500 From: Dennis Havarlah Reply-To: Rotary motors in aircraft To: Rotary motors in aircraft Tracy, I hope you are doing well. I'm sorry I could not attend the fly-in at Charlie England's. I really wanted to be there with all the guys! When running my Renesis powered RV -7A on the ground at idle (1600 rpm) I noticed a random tick noise in the front bearing area of the RD1 - C When prop rpm was increased to 2000 rpm the noise went away. I removed the prop output shaft and had several mechanics inspect the bearing and none thought it was bad. I have purchased a replacement bearing (MRC #209SZZ) and still want to replace the bearing. The bearing has a bearing retainer ring (part # 58505 R) pressed on the shaft against the bearing. The machine shop wants to heat the 58505 R retainer and press it and the old bearing off - then reuse the bearing retainer with the new bearing - is this OK or should I get a new retainer? If I need a new retainer who supplies them? My prop gear lash has increased from about 3/8 in. when new to about 5/8 in with 600 hrs. of run time. After disassembly of the RD1- C it appears the input shaft spline has a very small amount of play between it and the flex plate spline. Is this any problem? No noticeable play was found in the planetary gear system. Thanks, Dennis Haverlah ----- Original Message ----- *From:* Stephen Izett *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft *Sent:* Tuesday, May 27, 2014 8:11 AM *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: Re [Fly Rotary]: start Thanks very much Jeff The engine is a Renesis 4 port, it was one of a batch of Mazda’s test engines that a number of us here in Australia purchased. We have done nothing to it internally as yet. We have an expansion tank being welded up and when we install it hopefully this weekend we will then pressure test and compression test to ascertain primary engine health parameters. Cheers Steve Izett On 27 May 2014, at 8:53 pm, Jeff Whaley > wrote: > Steve, attached is the Hanover cooling system diagram … note all > the cooling elements (radiator, hoses, filler bottle) are > completely full of glycol (green); only the expansion tank (approx > 1 litre, with stant lever cap) has room for air, filled only about > 1/3. The location of the expansion tank is shown higher than > everything else in the diagram but can actually be located lower; > what is important is the connections be as shown, i.e., highest > point of saturated cooling system connects to bottom of expansion > tank, expansion tank is only 1/3 full and this is where you > install the pressure cap. Attached is also a photo of my > swirl-pot/expansion-tank; note it is not the highest point in the > system; the bottom connects to the highest point (water pump > outlet); the top is connected to an tire valve for pressurization > and also the system pressure gauge. Not shown but later installed, > is the rear iron (closest to prop) was T’d into the TOP port of > the expansion tank with 1/8” restrictors in hose to remove air > from the engine block. > Gurgling sounds are not good; there are two o-rings per iron, per > rotor housing. The inner is the combustion o-ring and the outer is > the water-jacket o-ring. If you are getting gurgling sounds then > it is possible that coolant is getting past the compression o-ring > into the combustion chamber. This can be checked easily but > removing your exhaust, turning over the engine by hand and > watching for signs of coolant being expelled when the apex seals > pass over the exhaust port. If there is a milky film on the dip > stick then it is possible that coolant is also getting past the > coolant o-ring at bottom of engine and leaking into the oil sump. > Either situation if true constitutes an engine tear-down and > rebuild. The Bruce-T video is what I used to overhaul my engine/s. > This leads to the question: “Where did your engine come from and > what was done to it prior to installation on your project”? > Jeff > From: > > "steve Izett" > > Subject: > > start > Date: > > Sat, 24 May 2014 07:57:48 +0800 > To: > > Rotary motors in aircraft > > > > > > > > > > Hi guys > > We are just finishing our Glasair SIIRG with a Renesis 4 port. > Started her up after finishing main wiring and she burst into > life. (without prop at the moment). > ~70psi oil pressure oil and water temps building. Ran it for 5 > mins or so before shutdown not wanting temps above 200. > We worked out that if we lifted the tail up we could get some more > air out and water in. > I have some questions/concerns: > > 1. Gurgling sound emanating from oil filler/breather with white > substance on the oil dip stick. Concerned water may be getting > into sump. What are the symptoms of o-ring failure? So much to > learn re rotaries. > > 2. If we do need to tear it down, any great sources of how to go > about it. Remembering years ago seeing Bruce T had a video? > > 3. We are working on an expansion tank design and wondered if > someone could share the important elements of a good cooling > system design. Looking at photos of other aircraft I’ve seen lines > to expansion tanks from A. Rear iron port. B. Radiator tank top. > etc. A. Is height of tank significant? B. Volume required? C. How > much air should be left in the tank? D. Cap style?. > > So much appreciate having this list. > > > Steve Izett > Perth Western Australia > > This message, and the documents attached hereto, is intended only > for the addressee and may contain privileged or confidential > information. Any unauthorized disclosure is strictly prohibited. > If you have received this message in error, please notify us > immediately so that we may correct our internal records. Please > then delete the original message. Thank you. Plumbing.jpg>-- > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > Archive and UnSub: > http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2014.0.4592 / Virus Database: 3950/7568 - Release Date: 05/26/14 --------------080609000405020907010600 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Dennis,

Tracy's in CO, so you may not get a quick response. He came through here Thurs nite, so probably got to CO Sat nite or Sun.

I've got no clue on what Tracy would recommend on pressing off the retainer, but when I rebuilt a GM 4 speed transmission about 45 years ago, the machine shop just pressed off a bearing (actually synchro ring) retainer without heat (no charge for a broke 19 yr old). I 'pressed' it back on with a piece of water pipe and a hammer. :-)

Please keep us updated; that's disconcerting news when I haven't started my engine yet.

Charlie 


-------- Original Message --------
Subject: [FlyRotary] RD1 - C Questions
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2014 22:39:49 -0500
From: Dennis Havarlah <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Reply-To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>


Tracy,
I hope you are doing well. I'm sorry I could not attend the fly-in at Charlie England's. I really wanted to be there with all the guys!
 
When running my Renesis powered RV -7A on the ground at idle (1600 rpm) I noticed a random tick noise in the front bearing area of the RD1 - C When prop rpm was increased to 2000 rpm the noise went away. I removed the prop output shaft and had several mechanics inspect the bearing and none thought it was bad. I have purchased a replacement bearing (MRC #209SZZ) and still want to replace the bearing.  The bearing has a bearing retainer ring (part # 58505 R) pressed on the shaft against the bearing.  The machine shop wants to heat the 58505 R retainer and press it and the old bearing off - then reuse the bearing retainer with the new bearing - is this OK or should I get a new retainer? If I need a new retainer who supplies them?
 
My prop gear lash has increased from about 3/8 in. when new to about 5/8 in with 600 hrs. of run time. After disassembly of the RD1- C it appears the input shaft spline has a very small amount of play between it and the flex plate spline. Is this any problem? No noticeable play was found in the planetary gear system.
 
Thanks,
Dennis Haverlah
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2014 8:11 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Re [Fly Rotary]: start

Thanks very much Jeff
The engine is a Renesis 4 port, it was one of a batch of Mazda’s test engines that a number of us here in Australia purchased.
We have done nothing to it internally as yet.

We have an expansion tank being welded up and when we install it hopefully this weekend we will then pressure test and compression test to ascertain primary engine health parameters.

Cheers
Steve Izett




On 27 May 2014, at 8:53 pm, Jeff Whaley <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:

Steve, attached is the Hanover cooling system diagram … note all the cooling elements (radiator, hoses, filler bottle) are completely full of glycol (green); only the expansion tank (approx 1 litre, with stant lever cap) has room for air, filled only about 1/3.  The location of the expansion tank is shown higher than everything else in the diagram but can actually be located lower; what is important is the connections be as shown, i.e., highest point of saturated cooling system connects to bottom of expansion tank, expansion tank is only 1/3 full and this is where you install the pressure cap.  Attached is also a photo of my swirl-pot/expansion-tank; note it is not the highest point in the system; the bottom connects to the highest point (water pump outlet); the top is connected to an tire valve for pressurization and also the system pressure gauge. Not shown but later installed, is the rear iron (closest to prop) was T’d into the TOP port of the expansion tank with 1/8” restrictors in hose to remove air from the engine block.
Gurgling sounds are not good; there are two o-rings per iron, per rotor housing. The inner is the combustion o-ring and the outer is the water-jacket o-ring.  If you are getting gurgling sounds then it is possible that coolant is getting past the compression o-ring into the combustion chamber. This can be checked easily but removing your exhaust, turning over the engine by hand and watching for signs of coolant being expelled when the apex seals pass over the exhaust port.  If there is a milky film on the dip stick then it is possible that coolant is also getting past the coolant o-ring at bottom of engine and leaking into the oil sump.  Either situation if true constitutes an engine tear-down and rebuild.  The Bruce-T video is what I used to overhaul my engine/s.
This leads to the question: “Where did your engine come from and what was done to it prior to installation on your project”?
Jeff
From:
Subject:
start
Date:
Sat, 24 May 2014 07:57:48 +0800
To:
Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Hi guys

We are just finishing our Glasair SIIRG with a Renesis 4 port.
Started her up after finishing main wiring and she burst into life. (without prop at the moment).
~70psi oil pressure oil and water temps building. Ran it for 5 mins or so before shutdown not wanting temps above 200.
We worked out that if we lifted the tail up we could get some more air out and water in.
I have some questions/concerns:

1. Gurgling sound emanating from oil filler/breather with white substance on the oil dip stick. Concerned water may be getting into sump. What are the symptoms of o-ring failure? So much to learn re rotaries.

2. If we do need to tear it down, any great sources of how to go about it. Remembering years ago seeing Bruce T had a video?

3. We are working on an expansion tank design and wondered if someone could share the important elements of a good cooling system design. Looking at photos of other aircraft I’ve seen lines to expansion tanks from A. Rear iron port. B. Radiator tank top. etc. A. Is height of tank significant? B. Volume required? C. How much air should be left in the tank? D. Cap style?.

So much appreciate having this list.


Steve Izett
Perth Western Australia  
This message, and the documents attached hereto, is intended only for the addressee and may contain privileged or confidential information. Any unauthorized disclosure is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify us immediately so that we may correct our internal records. Please then delete the original message. Thank you. <Lynns Plumbing.jpg><Tank2.jpg>--
Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
Archive and UnSub:   http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html

No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2014.0.4592 / Virus Database: 3950/7568 - Release Date: 05/26/14



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