X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from mail-qa0-f42.google.com ([209.85.216.42] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0.9e) with ESMTPS id 6827204 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 14 Apr 2014 11:42:00 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.216.42; envelope-from=wdleonard@gmail.com Received: by mail-qa0-f42.google.com with SMTP id k15so8202524qaq.15 for ; Mon, 14 Apr 2014 08:41:25 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=ewD3XhUu3sW5T9qKnXtr3Y2S69TgIzp799tEqKk8TyY=; b=vwrtWxWYDJyUGLrRq8MZIUE2iEdYSOfBmin0hJQJDqlYrRPwuT0g+Bi8EuJMU4yTsx v6HnLcIYnygb0/0Jk+l6xkQObRLVUkUESBQJwXhKKaSD+zHPpUCOqgy9HXU4pfI1vLfY tYjs2BXtjn2080X22LJB6KoKTrvP+jKPH7BUgE4D+3p6YOHKOWa/6hyvx3A9bmLE5dxV fZqQDtpUhl7pSpBql1GG6XahtzrWPCkt3FhkOzHJeO0XBcBwESLCcPfjWoTpMv7Ho2Pi CDb4zm5VI5LAY7ZKf2NLqF6WCyALOlKkYJOZGjO5sd4wNuVm4W98LAjnU9b/an0zS3xF kmfw== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.224.163.73 with SMTP id z9mr4286089qax.90.1397490084796; Mon, 14 Apr 2014 08:41:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.140.51.65 with HTTP; Mon, 14 Apr 2014 08:41:24 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2014 08:41:24 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Switcheroo from turbo to not From: David Leonard To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=089e0158b03014db5604f7028435 --089e0158b03014db5604f7028435 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Wow, great report Neil, thanks. Dave Leonard On Fri, Apr 11, 2014 at 7:06 PM, Neil Unger wrote: > No secret really, just a microtech ECU which is Australian! (Had to > get that one in!) I can only go by the A/F ration as per fuel burn. Wit= h > tracy=E2=80=99s I kept it at around 12.5 as the engine seemed happier the= re, while > the microtech is running great at 13.5 to 14. However I must add there > that I have now been advised to richen that to a max of 13.5, so have to > make a few further adjustments there. Knowing fuel burn other than that > is impossible as Tracy=E2=80=99s engine monitor does not recognise the pu= lse from > the injectors, or I have probably stuffed up the wiring somewhere. I als= o > had to put a thermostat back in the line as the ECU works from water temp= , > MAP, a fuel map and a TPS. You have to set an idle map, a load map, then= a > WOT map. Tracy=E2=80=99s is easier to map, but needs the knob to continu= ally fine > tune the mix which was very useful. Having finally got the ECU map right > in the new ECU (I hope) it is simply just a transfer of the numbers to an= y > other similar engine. The final setting I have to set is the automatic > lean out in cruise. Once you no longer fiddle with the throttle for a fe= w > minutes the ECU says, I can lean this out for cruise, so does so to what > you have set (adjustable). It automatically richens for start and > progressively leans as the engine warms up. Once you hit the magic 85 > degrees then the fuel map is as programmed. I have had grief with blowin= g > the main fuse to the ECU by turning off at the master switch. Simple cur= e > is to now kill the engine with the coil isolation switchs. My new EGT of > 1725 is at an A/F ratio of almost 14, so can be lowered further by more > fuel and possibly advancing ignition by a degree or two. A local rotary > racing bloke tells me that he gets up to 45 degrees BTDC. AS usual, so > much to learn. Neil. > > *From:* Thomas Giddings > *Sent:* Saturday, April 12, 2014 8:56 AM > *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft > *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: Switcheroo from turbo to not > > Ok...We all gotta know..which ECU and did your fuel burn increase>:) > KIND REGARDS > Thomas Giddings > n360tg@earthlink.net > 727 858 1772 > > > > On Apr 11, 2014, at 6:28 PM, Neil Unger wrote: > > Your EGT is interesting. I could easily get up to 1850 degrees at > WOT. over about 5 hours I managed to burn out 2 sets of EGT probes due t= o > heat. Then I managed to stuff up Tracy;s ECU which mandated a return for > repair. While waiting for it=E2=80=99s return I had the offer of a diffe= rent ECU. > Once wired in and set I found that the max EGT that I now get is 1725 > degrees. Nothing else has been changed. The only difference between thi= s > unit and Tracy=E2=80=99s is that this has a trigger box which I suspect g= ets the > spark away just that fraction quicker and may in fact make the spark > advanced over Tracy=E2=80=99s. The new unit sits at 27 degrees BTDC at = WOT. > Would like Tracy to chime in on this one as my expertise is mechanical, > certainly not electrical. It may also be imagination, but the exhaust > seems quieter. Neil. > > *From:* Mark Steitle > *Sent:* Saturday, April 12, 2014 8:14 AM > *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft > *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: Switcheroo from turbo to not > > Sounds like a prudent plan to me. > > Sent from my iPad > > On Apr 11, 2014, at 4:51 PM, shipchief@aol.com wrote: > > I went out to the Hangar last Tuesday to start installing the > intercooler. Well, at least to fit a few tubes and hoses, then hold up so= me > parts and make plans. > As I took the air discharge tube off the compressor, I noticed the whole > turbo compressor & bearing assembly wiggling around on the turbine housin= g! > I checked all the mounting bolts and clips, everything was tight. > So I took the turbo off the engine, and realized that I probably cooked > the turbine housing. I did see EGT excursions to 1800F. What's worse, I h= ad > a new turbo blanket. I think a heat shield would have been better, so som= e > cooling air could pass over the housing, but still block radiant heat. > Bummer. > So I decided to go with Plan B: I ordered the bits and tube bends to > switch to naturally aspirated operation. I'm keeping the exhaust header > that the turbo sat upon, and replacing everything else past the bottom of > the firewall, to the new pipe & muffler I recently added. > I'm retaining the ability to 'Go Turbo' later, but I've become curious > about what the turbo must boost to equal full throttle of 'Naturally > Aspirated'. > I did build and have been running a tuned intake manifold. The exhaust > won't be a tuned header, but it is pretty good, possibly better than the > stock exhaust reactor and a whole lot lighter. It has port discharge > nozzles (reversion cones) EGT probes and a gentle sweeping shape. Plus it= 's > proven strong while carrying the weight of the turbo beyond 1800F, and it > passed inspection. I trust it. > So I hope to run it, find the performance satisfactory, the fuel > consumption significantly reduced, and use 87 octane ethanol free mogas > instead of 92. (low compression rotors) > Also, I can advance the timing to the NA spec. > Anyone see a problem or have advise? > > > --089e0158b03014db5604f7028435 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Wow, great report Neil, thanks.

Dave Le= onard


On Fri, Apr 11, 2014 at 7:06 PM, Neil Unger <neil.unger@bigpond.c= om> wrote:
No secret really, just a microtech ECU which is Australian!=C2=A0 (Had= to=20 get that one in!)=C2=A0 I can only go by the A/F ration as per fuel burn.= =C2=A0=20 With tracy=E2=80=99s I kept it at around 12.5 as the engine seemed happier = there, while=20 the microtech is running great at 13.5 to 14.=C2=A0 However I must add ther= e=20 that I have now been advised to richen that to a max of=C2=A0 13.5, so have= to=20 make a few further adjustments there.=C2=A0 Knowing fuel burn other than=C2= =A0=20 that is impossible as Tracy=E2=80=99s engine monitor does not recognise the= pulse from=20 the injectors, or I have probably stuffed up the wiring somewhere.=C2=A0 I = also=20 had to put a thermostat back in the line as the ECU works from water temp, = MAP,=20 a fuel map and a TPS.=C2=A0 You have to set an idle map, a load map, then a= WOT=20 map.=C2=A0 Tracy=E2=80=99s is easier to map, but needs the knob to continua= lly fine tune=20 the mix which was very useful.=C2=A0 Having finally got the ECU map right i= n the=20 new ECU (I hope) it is simply just a transfer of the numbers to any other= =20 similar engine.=C2=A0 The final setting I have to set is the automatic lean= out=20 in cruise.=C2=A0 Once you no longer fiddle with the throttle for a few minu= tes=20 the ECU says, I can lean this out for cruise, so does so to what you have s= et=20 (adjustable).=C2=A0 It automatically richens for start and progressively le= ans=20 as the engine warms up.=C2=A0 Once you hit the magic 85 degrees then the fu= el=20 map is as programmed.=C2=A0 I have had grief with blowing the main fuse to = the=20 ECU by turning off at the master switch.=C2=A0 Simple cure is to now kill t= he=20 engine with the coil isolation switchs.=C2=A0 My new EGT of 1725 is at an A= /F=20 ratio of almost 14, so can be lowered further by more fuel and possibly=20 advancing ignition by a degree or two.=C2=A0 A local rotary racing bloke te= lls=20 me that he gets up to 45 degrees BTDC.=C2=A0 AS usual, so much to learn.=C2= =A0=20 Neil.
=C2=A0
Sent: Saturday, April 12, 2014 8:56 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <= /div>
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Switcheroo from turbo to=20 not
=C2=A0
Ok...We=20 all gotta know..which ECU and did your fuel burn increase>:)
KIND REGARDS
Thomas Giddings
=C2=A0

=C2=A0
On Apr 11, 2014, at 6:28 PM, Neil Unger wrote:

Your EGT is interesting.=C2=A0 I could easily get up to 1850 degrees= at=20 WOT.=C2=A0 over about 5 hours I managed to burn out 2 sets of EGT probes = due=20 to heat.=C2=A0 Then I managed to stuff up Tracy;s ECU which mandated a re= turn=20 for repair.=C2=A0 While waiting for it=E2=80=99s return I had the offer o= f a different=20 ECU.=C2=A0 Once wired in and set I found that the max EGT that I now get = is=20 1725 degrees.=C2=A0 Nothing else has been changed.=C2=A0 The only differe= nce=20 between this unit and Tracy=E2=80=99s is that this has a trigger box whic= h I suspect=20 gets the spark away just that fraction quicker and may in fact make the s= park=20 advanced over Tracy=E2=80=99s.=C2=A0 The new unit sits at 27 degrees BTDC= at=C2=A0=20 WOT.=C2=A0 Would like Tracy to chime in on this one as my expertise is=20 mechanical, certainly not electrical.=C2=A0=C2=A0 It may also be=C2=A0=20 imagination, but the exhaust seems quieter.=C2=A0=C2=A0 Neil.
=C2=A0
Sent: Saturday, April 12, 2014 8:14 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Switcheroo from turbo to=20 not
=C2=A0
Sounds like a prudent plan to me.

Sent from my iPad

On Apr 11, 2014, at 4:51 PM, shipchief@aol.com wrote:

I went out to the Han= gar=20 last Tuesday to start installing the intercooler. Well, at least to fit= a=20 few tubes and hoses, then hold up some parts and make plans.
As I took the air discharge tube off the compressor, I noticed the= =20 whole turbo compressor & bearing assembly wiggling around on the tu= rbine=20 housing!
I checked all the mounting bolts and clips, everything was tight.= =20
So I took the turbo off the engine, and realized that I probably c= ooked=20 the turbine housing. I did see EGT excursions to 1800F. What's wors= e, I had=20 a new turbo blanket. I think a heat shield would have been better, so s= ome=20 cooling air could pass over the housing, but still block radiant heat.<= /div>
Bummer.
So I decided to go with Plan B: I ordered the bits and tube bends = to=20 switch to naturally aspirated operation. I'm keeping the exhaust he= ader that=20 the turbo sat upon, and replacing everything else past the bottom of th= e=20 firewall, to the new pipe & muffler I recently added.
I'm retaining the ability to 'Go Turbo' later, but I&#= 39;ve become curious=20 about what the turbo must boost to equal full throttle of 'Naturall= y=20 Aspirated'.
I did build and have been running a tuned intake manifold. The exh= aust=20 won't be a tuned header, but it is pretty good, possibly better tha= n the=20 stock exhaust reactor and a whole lot lighter. It has port discharge no= zzles=20 (reversion cones) EGT probes and a gentle sweeping shape. Plus it's= proven=20 strong while carrying the weight of the turbo beyond 1800F, and it pass= ed=20 inspection. I trust it.
So I hope to run it, find the performance satisfactory, the fuel= =20 consumption significantly reduced, and use 87 octane ethanol free mogas= =20 instead of 92. (low compression rotors)
Also, I can advance the timing to the NA spec.=C2=A0
Anyone see a problem or have=20 advise?
=C2=A0

--089e0158b03014db5604f7028435--