Message-ID: <4041695E.3E69D221@frontiernet.net>
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 22:23:58 -0600
From: Jim Sower <canarder@frontiernet.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] 13B smooth running issues
References: <list-3050160@logan.com>
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John,
<... I don't think I have ANY water circulation at all...I am running a
thermostat. Maybe I should remove it...>
I think definitely you should remove it.  Then make sure your cooling system is
vented as thoroughly as you are able to.

<... After each short 15 second run I added maybe a pint of water...>
Sounds like you're not vented.  If you were vented, there would be no air in the
system and you couldn't add water unless some had come out ...>

<... Anyway, the oil came up to about 180, but the water temp never moved off
the peg, and the rad and pipes never even got warm after any run....>
Is the OIL circulating OK?  Are the oil coolers getting hot?

<... I have a slight drip from the lower water pump fixture which goes to the
rad. If this is the suction end, then I'm probably sucking air into the
system....>
It's a closed system.  You can't be sucking anything IN unless you're leaking a
similar amount of something OUT.  The tiny leak you describe is trivial at this
juncture.  Vent the system and get rid of the thermostat.  Those two things will
definitely change what's happening.

<... I have a cheap mechanical gauge hooked up at the back (because my westach
reads 90psi when the engine's not running and goes off scale when it starts).
The guy watching oil pressure says that the cheap gauge went full circle, past
100 and hit the zero stop coming the other way...>
Get another cheap electrical gauge and a cheap sender for about $20 and replace
the Westach system.  Then when things are a little more stable, check the
Westach gauge and sender one at a time to check which is bad.

John Slade wrote:

> > Just occured to me: you don't use oil injection, do you?
> No, Finn. I'm mixing 2 stroke oil 100:1
>
> Thanks to all those who gave me input on starting. I put in a new set of
> plugs and she blew some smoke, then started right up. Looks like the main
> problem was preservative gunk in the engine which took a while to blow out.
> I can now start the engine on demand and run it as long as I want to. So...
> we're on to step 2. :)
>
> I ran the engine for a total of 8 minutes spread over 5 or 6 runs this
> morning. It runs on computer B. If I switch to A it dies immediately. I plan
> to study the EC2 manual in depth with respect to programming, but I think I
> have a few mechanical issues to deal with as well.
>
> Cooling.
> I don't think I have ANY water circulation at all. After each short 15
> second run I added maybe a pint of water. In a later longer run of about 90
> seconds I may have overheated the turbo. Perhaps it seized and this is
> what's causing my breathing problem below. Anyway, the oil came up to about
> 180, but the water temp never moved off the peg, and the rad and pipes never
> even got warm after any run. I have a slight drip from the lower water pump
> fixture which goes to the rad. If this is the suction end, then I'm probably
> sucking air into the system. I am running a thermostat. Maybe I should
> remove it.
>
> Breathing.
> The engine seems starved of air. I hear a suction kinda noise on throttle
> change and the manifold pressure is hovering around 20 inches of hg. (starts
> at 30). If I leave the throttle alone the engine will cycle up and down
> between say 2000 and 3000 by itself. It sounds sweet and happy, but
> obviously something's not right here.
>
> Oil Pressure.
> I have a cheap mechanical gauge hooked up at the back (because my westach
> reads 90psi when the engine's not running and goes off scale when it
> starts). The guy watching oil pressure says that the cheap gauge went full
> circle, past 100 and hit the zero stop coming the other way. The cheap gauge
> has air in the line, but that wouldnt cause this behavior would it?. What
> oil pressure should I be reading.

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<html>
John,
<br>&lt;... I don't think I have ANY water circulation at all...I am running
a thermostat. Maybe I should remove it...>
<br>I think <b>definitely</b> you should remove it.&nbsp; Then make sure
your cooling system is vented as thoroughly as you are able to.
<p>&lt;... After each short 15 second run I added maybe a pint of water...>
<br>Sounds like you're not vented.&nbsp; If you were vented, there would
be no air in the system and you couldn't add water unless some had come
out ...>
<p>&lt;... Anyway, the oil came up to about 180, but the water temp never
moved off the peg, and the rad and pipes never even got warm after any
run....>
<br>Is the OIL circulating OK?&nbsp; Are the oil coolers getting hot?
<p>&lt;... I have a slight drip from the lower water pump fixture which
goes to the rad. If this is the suction end, then I'm probably sucking
air into the system....>
<br>It's a closed system.&nbsp; You can't be sucking anything IN unless
you're leaking a similar amount of something OUT.&nbsp; The tiny leak you
describe is trivial at this juncture.&nbsp; <b>Vent the system</b> and
<b>get rid of the thermostat.</b>&nbsp; Those two things will definitely
change what's happening.
<p>&lt;... I have a cheap mechanical gauge hooked up at the back (because
my westach reads 90psi when the engine's not running and goes off scale
when it starts). The guy watching oil pressure says that the cheap gauge
went full circle, past 100 and hit the zero stop coming the other way...>
<br>Get another cheap electrical gauge and a cheap sender for about $20
and replace the Westach system.&nbsp; Then when things are a little more
stable, check the Westach gauge and sender one at a time to check which
is bad.
<p>John Slade wrote:
<blockquote TYPE=CITE>> Just occured to me: you don't use oil injection,
do you?
<br>No, Finn. I'm mixing 2 stroke oil 100:1
<p>Thanks to all those who gave me input on starting. I put in a new set
of
<br>plugs and she blew some smoke, then started right up. Looks like the
main
<br>problem was preservative gunk in the engine which took a while to blow
out.
<br>I can now start the engine on demand and run it as long as I want to.
So...
<br>we're on to step 2. :)
<p>I ran the engine for a total of 8 minutes spread over 5 or 6 runs this
<br>morning. It runs on computer B. If I switch to A it dies immediately.
I plan
<br>to study the EC2 manual in depth with respect to programming, but I
think I
<br>have a few mechanical issues to deal with as well.
<p>Cooling.
<br>I don't think I have ANY water circulation at all. After each short
15
<br>second run I added maybe a pint of water. In a later longer run of
about 90
<br>seconds I may have overheated the turbo. Perhaps it seized and this
is
<br>what's causing my breathing problem below. Anyway, the oil came up
to about
<br>180, but the water temp never moved off the peg, and the rad and pipes
never
<br>even got warm after any run. I have a slight drip from the lower water
pump
<br>fixture which goes to the rad. If this is the suction end, then I'm
probably
<br>sucking air into the system. I am running a thermostat. Maybe I should
<br>remove it.
<p>Breathing.
<br>The engine seems starved of air. I hear a suction kinda noise on throttle
<br>change and the manifold pressure is hovering around 20 inches of hg.
(starts
<br>at 30). If I leave the throttle alone the engine will cycle up and
down
<br>between say 2000 and 3000 by itself. It sounds sweet and happy, but
<br>obviously something's not right here.
<p>Oil Pressure.
<br>I have a cheap mechanical gauge hooked up at the back (because my westach
<br>reads 90psi when the engine's not running and goes off scale when it
<br>starts). The guy watching oil pressure says that the cheap gauge went
full
<br>circle, past 100 and hit the zero stop coming the other way. The cheap
gauge
<br>has air in the line, but that wouldnt cause this behavior would it?.
What
<br>oil pressure should I be reading.</blockquote>
</html>

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