X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from omr-d01.mx.aol.com ([205.188.252.208] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0.6) with ESMTPS id 6435095 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Tue, 20 Aug 2013 21:08:07 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=205.188.252.208; envelope-from=shipchief@aol.com Received: from mtaomg-mb05.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtaomg-mb05.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.41.76]) by omr-d01.mx.aol.com (Outbound Mail Relay) with ESMTP id 4CE31700544F2 for ; Tue, 20 Aug 2013 21:07:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from core-ddd003a.r1000.mail.aol.com (core-ddd003.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.29.52.201]) by mtaomg-mb05.r1000.mx.aol.com (OMAG/Core Interface) with ESMTP id 18591E000081 for ; Tue, 20 Aug 2013 21:07:33 -0400 (EDT) References: To: flyrotary@lancaironline.net Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Turbo boost indication In-Reply-To: X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 From: shipchief@aol.com X-MB-Message-Type: User Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--------MB_8D06C21F32B486F_1734_123163_webmail-m165.sysops.aol.com" X-Mailer: AOL Webmail 37966-STANDARD Received: from 174.61.189.169 by webmail-m165.sysops.aol.com (64.12.78.180) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Tue, 20 Aug 2013 21:07:32 -0400 Message-Id: <8D06C21F31D0029-1734-56964@webmail-m165.sysops.aol.com> X-Originating-IP: [174.61.189.169] Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 21:07:32 -0400 (EDT) x-aol-global-disposition: G DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mx.aol.com; s=20121107; t=1377047253; bh=t1ctadIt78kPQooD325cCK6lRdSr4CHCR5zcEEZeiYA=; h=From:To:Subject:Message-Id:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=EYfU6CyW9jRc1W8oxm/95es80qWyJ0foMfM7vvJoYhW/IpLYi2n0q1Ax+BBpE0zZy T9sCnthd21GhYAg2A8tZZduxoKvREYHn+uYJ5Il5jbgGRXGVEJw9R2+qgvp4BJvGtB 4nPF+o46v8Grnkz+bKBiX1qV0u+K13SdK83yyris= x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d294c521412d50e0e This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ----------MB_8D06C21F32B486F_1734_123163_webmail-m165.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Today was the first start of my 13BT after the Detonation Incident. I now b= elieve that the oversized trailing plug holes were the major culprits.=20 I started the engine with all the ducts, insulation and cowl off. I wanted = to witness any leaks etc. ASAP. I ran it about 5 minutes, and it ran very w= ell, and smoothly. My wife said it sounds better listening from the side (w= hile holding a fire extinguisher) The highest RPM observed was only about 3200 RPM with a corresponding manif= old pressure of 22" Hg. My Blow off valve parts have not arrived yet, The US Postal Service lost th= em. The BOV consists of a weld in radiator fill neck with a 4 PSI Stant rad= iator cap. I'll drill several holes around the side above the valve seat ar= ea to let a high volume of excess boost air to escape. If I want more boost later, I'll get a higher rated cap, they cost about $5= .=20 -----Original Message----- From: John Slade To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Mon, Jul 8, 2013 10:06 am Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Turbo boost indication =20 =20 Scott, I have the stock 3rd gen intercooler. I also have a blow-off valve set at 44psi to avoid overboost. Regards, John =20 =20 On 7/8/2013 11:23 AM, Scott Emery wrote: =20 =20 =20 Last night (from epay) I bought a manifold pressure gauge for a twin= Cessna. The two needles are labelled Front & Rear. It's marked 10 t= o 50 inches of mercury absolute. I intend to use it to read turbo bo= ost before the throttle body, and manifold pressure after the thrott= le body.=20 =20 I'm having a hard time finding an intercooler that fits the availabl= e space plus has a usable configuration of inlet/outlet tubes. The s= tock rx7 intercooler I have in hand seems the best so far, but it's = a bit small compared to aftermarket offerings. =20 Sent from my iPhone =20 On Jul 7, 2013, at 2:17 PM, Scott Emery = wrote: =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 I'm thinking my "Blown Engine" experience might be avoidable in = the future if I add a large manifold pressure gauge in plain sig= ht, install a 1.30 A/R exhaust housing, retard the timing, run 1= 00 LL blue gas, and add an intercooler.=20 =20 In that order. =20 I got an engine hoist yesterday so now I can put the repaired en= gine back on. Getting it off didn't require as much precision... =20 After I get some experience, I'll try different grades of mogas = @ defined manifold pressure limits. =20 Sent from my iPhone =20 On Jul 6, 2013, at 12:36 PM, David Leonard wrote: =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 OK, so the more accurate conversion is =20 20psi=3D40.7 in Hg =20 so in your example =20 20psi boost =3D 70.6 in MAP (Manifold Absolute Pressure) =20 =20 =20 It help in your article, turbos work as a boost ratio. So= this turbo it then making a boost ratio of: =20 70.6 / 29.9 =3D 2.36 =20 =20 =20 So as you go up in altitude you multiply the ambient press= ure by 2.36 =20 =20 =20 So at 17,500 ft the pressure is half, and so is the MAP, o= r, 35.3 " MAP =20 =20 =20 Losses are not porportunately reduced, and the turbo may b= e less efficient in that range so actual MAP may be less. =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 On Sat, Jul 6, 2013 at 11:57 AM, Patrick Panzera wrote: =20 =20 I'm editing an article about a bone stock, turbocharge= d direct injection car engine that boasts 20 lbs of bo= ost.=20 =20 =20 I want to convert that to MP so us airplane junkies = can wrap our heads around it. =20 =20 =20 Thanks! =20 =20 =20 Pat=20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 On Sat, Jul 6, 2013 at 11:44 AM, David Leonard <= wdleonard@gmail.com> wrote: =20 =20 Simply convert 20 psi to Inches of Hg (its a= bout 2 to 1 but not exactly) and add it to 2= 9.9. So the MP should be about 69 inches, g= ive or take depending on losses and where in= the system you measure. = =20 =20 =20 =20 I keep my plane less that 45 inches MP. Y= ou have to be more rich and skilled than m= e to go higher without detonation. =20 =20 =20 =20 On Sat, Jul 6, 2013 at 11:14 AM, Patrick P= anzera wrote: =20 =20 Friends, =20 =20 Hypothetical question.=20 =20 Let's say it's a standard day and = I'm at sea level. =20 I've installed a turbocharger and = have also connected the stock auto= mobile turbo boost gauge, along wi= th my traditional manifold = pressure gauge. =20 =20 =20 I ground-run the engine to full th= rottle (where the MP would normall= y be reading 29.92- minus some eff= iciency loss) and the boost gauge = is reading 20 psi. =20 =20 =20 What should the MP indicator be re= ading? =20 =20 =20 Thanks! =20 =20 =20 Pat =20 =20 =20 =20 = =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 --=20 David Leonard =20 Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net http://RotaryRoster.net = =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 --=20 David Leonard =20 Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net http://RotaryRoster.net =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 ----------MB_8D06C21F32B486F_1734_123163_webmail-m165.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
Today was the first start of my 13BT after the Detonation Incident. I = now believe that the oversized trailing plug holes were the major culprits.=
I started the engine with all the ducts, insulation and cowl off. I wa= nted to witness any leaks etc. ASAP. I ran it about 5 minutes, and it ran v= ery well, and smoothly. My wife said it sounds better listening from the si= de (while holding a fire extinguisher)
The highest RPM observed was only about 3200 RPM with a corresponding = manifold pressure of 22" Hg.
My Blow off valve parts have not arrived yet, The US Postal Service lo= st them. The BOV consists of a weld in radiator fill neck with a 4 PSI Stan= t radiator cap. I'll drill several holes around the side above the valve se= at area to let a high volume of excess boost air to escape.
If I want more boost later, I'll get a higher rated cap, they cost abo= ut $5.
-----Original Message-----
From: John Slade <jslade@canardaviation.com>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Mon, Jul 8, 2013 10:06 am
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Turbo boost indication

=20 =20 =20 =20
=20
Scott,
I have the stock 3rd gen intercooler.
I also have a blow-off valve set at 44psi to avoid overboost.
Regards,
John


On 7/8/2013 11:23 AM, Scott Emery wrote:
=20
Last night (from epay) I bought a manifold pressure gauge for a twin Cessna. The two needles are labelled Front & Rear. It's marked 10 to 50 inches of mercury absolute. I intend to use it to read turbo boost before the throttle body, and manifold pressure after the throttle body. 
=20
I'm having a hard time finding an intercooler that fits the available space plus has a usable configuration of inlet/outlet tubes. The stock rx7 intercooler I have in hand seems the best so far, but it's a bit small compared to aftermarket offerings.

Sent from my iPhone
=20

On Jul 7, 2013, at 2:17 PM, Scott Emery <shipchief@aol.com> wrote:

=20
=20
I'm thinking my "Blown Engine" experience might be avoidable in the future if I add a large manifold pressure gauge in plain sight, install a 1.30 A/R exhaust housing, retard the timing, run 100 LL blue gas, and add an intercooler. 
=20
In that order.
=20
I got an engine hoist yesterday so now I can put the repaired engine back on. Getting it off didn't require as much precision...
=20
After I get some experience, I'll try different grades of mogas @ defined manifold pressure limits.

Sent from my iPhone
=20

On Jul 6, 2013, at 12:36 PM, David Leonard <wdleonard@gmail.com> wrote:

=20
=20
OK, so the more accurate conversion is  =20
20psi=3D40.7 in Hg
=20
so in your example
=20
20psi boost =3D 70.6 in MAP (Manifold Absolute Pressure)
=20

=20
It help in your article, turbos work as a boost ratio.  So this turbo it then making a boost ratio o= f:
=20
70.6 / 29.9  =3D 2.36
=20

=20
So as you go up in altitude you multiply the ambient pressure by 2.36
=20

=20
So at 17,500 ft the pressure is half, and so is the MAP, or, 35.3 " MAP
=20

=20
Losses are not porportunately reduced, and the turbo may be less efficient in that range so actual MAP may be less.
=20

=20

=20


=20
On Sat, Jul 6, 2013 at 11:57 AM, Patrick Panzera <editor@contactm= agazine.com> wrote:
=20
I'm editing an article about a bone stock, turbocharged direct injection car engine that boasts 20 lbs of boost.

=20
I want to convert that to MP so us airplane junkies can wrap our heads around it.
=20

=20
Thanks!
=20

=20
Pat 
=20
=20
=20


=20
On Sat, Jul 6, 2013 at 11:44 AM, David Leonard &l= t;wdleonard@gmail.com> wrote:
=20
Simply convert 20 psi to Inches of Hg (its about 2 to 1 but not exactly) and add it to 29.9.  So the M= P should be about 69 inches, give or take depending on losses and where in the system you measure. =20

=20
I keep my plane less that 45 inches MP.  You have to be more rich and skilled than me to go higher without detonation.
=20


=20
On Sat, Jul 6, 2013 at 11:14 AM, Patrick Panzera <editor@contact= magazine.com> wrote:
=20
Friends, =20

=20
Hypothetical question. 
=20
Let's say it's a standard day and I'm at sea level.
=20
I've installed a turbocharger and have also connected the stock automobile turbo boost gauge, along with my traditional manifold pressure gauge.
=20

=20
I ground-run the engine to full throttle (where the MP would normally be reading 29.92- minus some efficiency loss) and the boost gauge is reading 20 psi.
=20

=20
What should the MP indicator be reading?
=20

=20
Thanks!
=20

=20
Pat
=20



=20

--
David Leonard

Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY
http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net
http://RotaryRoster.net



=20

--
David Leonard

Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY
= http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net
http:= //RotaryRoster.net

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