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[75.202.83.107]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id b50sm1529818yhl.1.2013.08.01.04.36.59 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Thu, 01 Aug 2013 04:37:04 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Fwd: [FlyRotary] Re: : Misfire References: From: Tracy Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-D4F588F6-48AD-4F0A-8BFC-F1D9F8A2B9FB X-Mailer: iPad Mail (10B329) In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2013 07:36:57 -0400 To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) --Apple-Mail-D4F588F6-48AD-4F0A-8BFC-F1D9F8A2B9FB Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable FWIW, I and other fliers have experienced loss of leading ignition on both p= lugs (lead coil failed when using 2nd gen coils) while in-flight. With the= lead and trail timing being the same on the EC2/3, you still have 75+% pow= er available. =20 Main clue is small rpm drop and higher than normal EGT. I didn't know what h= appened until doing coil test on next preflight. =20 Tracy Sent from my iPad On Aug 1, 2013, at 3:27, Lehanover@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 7/31/2013 11:57:00 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, markmccl= ure@me.com writes: > Lynn, >=20 > Just want you to know, was having a rough day out at the hangar, your sign= ature turned it all around.=20 >=20 > So to better understand, the trailing plugs main purpose is to effect a sm= oother and more complete burn of the mixture. The plan to open the hole woul= d be to try and gain 75% power on either leading or trailing plug... Based o= n trailing plug being clean up, would you not instead have to put a second h= ole next to both leading and trailing plug creating 4 plugs per rotor? >=20 > Mark > Mazda and others have tried thousands of combinations of intake and exhaus= t port shape as well as permutations of plug locations and quantities. And e= very other combination of shapes and locations imaginable. The Le mans engin= e had three plugs for better fuel efficiency as well as variable intake tune= d length for best power. Not that the rotor is turning the burning mixture a= cross the pinched waist of the housing, forcing the flame through the chambe= r cut into the rotor face. The fuel near the trailing apex seal is loosing h= eat to the rotor housing and droplets are forming as fuel condenses. This is= where the trailing plug helps keep the fire going. The third plug had to be= firing into the moving chamber face where the edges of the chamber were wit= hin a few thousandths of the housing walls. The Le mans engine was not turne= d up very tight. Under 8,000 RPM if I remember correctly. So the extra plug w= as enough of a help with the burn that even one or more extra pit stop for f= uel were avoided and helped with a first time out win. The stunned governing= body outlawed the rotary.=20 > Some early production engines had three drilled holes for the exhaust port= . The engines looked very much like the 2 cycle engines they mimic. It is a 4= cycle engine that tunes like a 2 cycle engine. =20 > =20 > The trailing plug has a very short time to get any kind of job done before= the apex seal sweeps the burning mixture across the plug hole and renders t= he plug moot. So, the trailing plugs alone cannot provide enough power to do= much but get you to the ground. You can try this by just turning off the le= ading ignition. > =20 > Better efficiency is no doubt available with the three plug layout, but th= e production costs and the ignition system complexity just rules it out. Whe= n the Rotary hit the market, fuel was quite a bit less expensive.=20 > =20 > Lynn E. Hanover > The taller idiot is me. > The shorter is Mike Bashem > Crew chief on the red car. > (National Champion) > > -- > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List= .html --Apple-Mail-D4F588F6-48AD-4F0A-8BFC-F1D9F8A2B9FB Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
FWIW,  I and other fliers have experienced loss of leading ignition on both plugs (lead coil failed when using 2nd gen coils)  while in-flight.  With the lead and trail timing being the same on the EC2/3,  you still have 75+% power available.  
Main clue is small rpm drop and higher than normal EGT.  I didn't know what happened until doing coil test on next preflight.  

Tracy

Sent from my iPad

On Aug 1, 2013, at 3:27, Lehanover@aol.com wrote:

In a message dated 7/31/2013 11:57:00 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, markmcclure@me.com writes:
Lynn,

Just want you to know, was having a rough day out at the hangar, your signature turned it all around. 

So to better understand, the trailing plugs main purpose is to effect a smoother and more complete burn of the mixture. The plan to open the hole would be to try and gain 75% power on either leading or trailing plug... Based on trailing plug being clean up, would you not instead have to put a second hole next to both leading and trailing plug creating 4 plugs per rotor?

Mark
Mazda and others have tried thousands of combinations of intake and exhaust port shape as well as permutations of plug locations and quantities. And every other combination of shapes and locations imaginable. The Le mans engine had three plugs for better fuel efficiency as well as variable intake tuned length for best power. Not that the rotor is turning the burning mixture across the pinched waist of the housing, forcing the flame through the chamber cut into the rotor face. The fuel near the trailing apex seal is loosing heat to the rotor housing and droplets are forming as fuel condenses. This is where the trailing plug helps keep the fire going. The third plug had to be firing into the moving chamber face where the edges of the chamber were within a few thousandths of the housing walls. The Le mans engine was not turned up very tight. Under 8,000 RPM if I remember correctly. So the extra plug was enough of a help with the burn that even one or more extra pit stop for fuel were avoided and helped with a first time out win. The stunned governing body outlawed the rotary.
Some early production engines had three drilled holes for the exhaust port. The engines looked very much like the 2 cycle engines they mimic. It is a 4 cycle engine that tunes like a 2 cycle engine.  
 
The trailing plug has a very short time to get any kind of job done before the apex seal sweeps the burning mixture across the plug hole and renders the plug moot. So, the trailing plugs alone cannot provide enough power to do much but get you to the ground. You can try this by just turning off the leading ignition.
 
Better efficiency is no doubt available with the three plug layout, but the production costs and the ignition system complexity just rules it out. When the Rotary hit the market, fuel was quite a bit less expensive. 
 
Lynn E. Hanover
The taller idiot is me.
The shorter is Mike Bashem
Crew chief on the red car.
(National Champion)
<MeBashem.jpg>
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