X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from qmta15.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.27.228] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0.5) with ESMTP id 6398994 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Wed, 31 Jul 2013 23:34:51 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=76.96.27.228; envelope-from=hoursaway1@comcast.net Received: from omta05.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.30.43]) by qmta15.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id 7DDW1m0070vp7WLAFFaGJZ; Thu, 01 Aug 2013 03:34:16 +0000 Received: from sz0081.ev.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.40.138]) by omta05.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id 7FaG1m0032yr1eL8RFaG2K; Thu, 01 Aug 2013 03:34:16 +0000 Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2013 03:34:16 +0000 (UTC) From: hoursaway1@comcast.net To: Rotary motors in aircraft Message-ID: <590156020.1829096.1375328056000.JavaMail.root@sz0081a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Misfire MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_1829095_1970552922.1375328055999" X-Originating-IP: [::ffff:68.40.10.159] X-Mailer: Zimbra 6.0.13_GA_2944 (ZimbraWebClient - FF3.0 (Win)/6.0.13_GA_2944) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=comcast.net; s=q20121106; t=1375328056; bh=mgeVK5YF+6OF5v5Muwo0h04GYUUxuj+xK4pR8OQz4Ks=; h=Received:Received:Date:From:To:Message-ID:Subject:MIME-Version: Content-Type; b=BXX9r25ndXbszwLk4U60wjnWEIV2jSAncGfiunxzgzMofAjKcvKCG959JxUElYO3M 15FeW8RRcCbc3r1CaWPhNz59zivRQlQ6R4Tyq4mxenuwnknDb47P31bVn+shc4H99u V0bKZPIomTq4dGup/Y+3VTk8RqQ1wP4g+c780tYbCxwzOxfjcjWavF6RxPJqxCjTwL g4ecNBNV0mEdBvEpBEyXfenpR6KJXdLzswthFfMVI18tcqjJ7gJ4IUKpsX105a4I5x PxnMXm1vXRvlEL1zqdu9TElZFvfuqZ07NzM70GG8lRGGrZItA1jybZVG6FRwImHBp1 SFIWufgwmg0xg== ------=_Part_1829095_1970552922.1375328055999 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injector flow rate may need tweeking after your fuel delivery changes, I sa= w you said you reset comp. A back to fact. specs, this does not change inj.= flow rate I have discovered, it will still be whatever you left it at prev= . I had a reversed wired EGT sensor that was causing the logic chips in EM2= to put out incorrect readings & I think that is also the cause of EC2 map = to change, was at factory settings one day, then eng. started running poorl= y, saw the bars were changed from center across the line to some being lean= ed to bottom of scale. Have reset & am flying again, eng. running great & E= M2 showing correct readings. Now I need to do the auto-tune & fine tune. Ho= pe this helps Chris. David R. Cook RV6A Rotary not going to Osh. wish I was= .=20 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Barber" =20 To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" =20 Sent: Monday, July 29, 2013 9:30:11 PM=20 Subject: [FlyRotary] Misfire=20 Ok, since there has been a scary lack of activity on the list as of late (n= o, not just blamable on Oshkosh), I am certain y'all remember that I lost m= y engine over the first airport I flew to from my home airport. I have been= there the last three months working on a couple of issues (yeah, life tend= s to extend time requirements). We determined the engine quite due to some = gunk getting into the fuel rail, blocking the return vent in the Mistral fu= el rail. I have cleaned and modified the fuel lines a bit and hopefully thi= s is in the past. Also, since my oil pressure was running lower than I felt= good about, I installed the higher rated oil pressure valve (and inserted = two small washers on top of the spring in the front housing). Also, I remov= ed the front oil cooler used for cabin heat from the oil system greatly sim= plifying my oil lines. (I will likely convert cabin heating to coolant heat= if I ever get flying right) The oil pressure is better, going down to arou= nd 30 at idle and up to the 60's or more when at power. Seems it should be = higher with the higher pressure regulator (80lbs, I think) but it is now hi= gh enough that I am not nervous to run the engine. This mod included a shor= t brass tube to better support the front housing oil ring which I have had = consistent issue with.=20 Enough background.=20 I've gotten the engine starting predictably and I am able to run it up with= the prop to over 6000 (IVO in flight adjustable at fine pitch. Don't recal= l MP), however, I cannot seem to get it to run smoothly at lower RPM's/Idle= . It seems to be missing consistently. It sounds okay as power increases bu= t I may not be able to hear the miss when it revs up. Fuel pressure is at a= bout 38lbs. I have used the EC2's test feature and find all the coils putti= ng out power and I replaced all the spark plugs yesterday. I can hear the c= lick of the injectors when I press the program switch (but, I could not get= them to fire in Mode 1 test...but it seems that there may have been a chan= ge in the way this is done after one of my units upgrade but I was working = with an older EC2 manual...the one that came with the unit and not the one = for the latest update I received).=20 I am getting similar results for both A and B computers. I reset A to facto= ry defaults since I figured it would be best since I changed some fuel line= runs. I have left B as it was when I was last flying. I am thinking this m= inimizes the EC2 as the culprit. Mixture does not seem to make much differe= nce. I do have separate switches for both primary and secondary injectors a= nd coils. I am not getting any great improvement in any combination of on a= nd off combinations.=20 Since I am home preparing for a Colonoscopy tomorrow (yeah, as y'all who ha= ve been here know, I am not really able to head out to the hangar...isn't b= eing over 50 fun), I have been searching the archives. The problem is our a= rchives are a bit hard to search. Not only is it difficult to use the corre= ct term, our threads seem to drift a bit. :-).=20 Temperatures on oil and coolant are reassuring. I can get my coolant number= s down from 200 when stationary for a while to the low 180's just from a mo= derate taxi speed. Oil has been below 180....actually even lower if memory = serves.=20 So, once again I reach out to our collective. Even with Osh, todays tech ma= y allow some to comment and provide direction. Heck, maybe y'all can discus= s in person........;-)=20 Chris=20 Itching to get my bird back home and save the extra $250 a month for a seco= nd hangar, but not wanting to prematurely launch....oh, and actually be fly= ing again. ------=_Part_1829095_1970552922.1375328055999 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <= div style=3D'font-family: Arial; font-size: 12pt; color: #000000'>Injector = flow rate may need tweeking after your fuel delivery changes, I saw you sai= d you reset comp. A  back to fact. specs, this does not change inj. fl= ow rate I have discovered, it will still be whatever you left it at prev.&n= bsp; I had a reversed wired EGT sensor that was causing the logic chips in = EM2 to put out incorrect readings & I think that is also the cause of E= C2 map to change, was at factory settings one day, then eng. started runnin= g poorly, saw the bars were changed from center across the line to some bei= ng leaned to bottom of scale. Have reset & am flying again, eng. runnin= g great & EM2 showing correct readings. Now I need to do the auto-tune = & fine tune.  Hope this helps Chris.   David R. Cook  RV= 6A  Rotary  not going to Osh.  wish I was.

From: "Chris Barber" <cbarber@texasattorney.net>
To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>Sent: Monday, July 29, 2013 9:30:11 PM
Subject: [FlyRotar= y] Misfire

Ok, since there has been a scary lack of activity on the list as of late= (no, not just blamable on Oshkosh), I am certain y'all remember that I los= t my engine over the first airport I flew to from my home airport.  I = have been there the last three months working on a couple of issues (yeah, life tends to extend time requirement= s).  We determined the engine quite due to some gunk getting into the = fuel rail, blocking the return vent in the Mistral fuel rail.  I have = cleaned and modified the fuel lines a bit and hopefully this is in the past.  Also, since my oil pressure was r= unning lower than I felt good about, I installed the higher rated oil press= ure valve (and inserted two small washers on top of the spring in the front= housing). Also, I removed the front oil cooler used for cabin heat from the oil system greatly simplifying my = oil lines. (I will likely convert cabin heating to coolant heat if I ever g= et flying right) The oil pressure is better, going down to around 30 a= t idle and up to the 60's or more when at power.  Seems it should be higher with the higher pressure regulat= or (80lbs, I think) but it is now high enough that I am not nervous to run = the engine. This mod included a short brass tube to better support the fron= t housing oil ring which I have had consistent issue with. 

 

Enough background.

 

I've gotten the engine starting predictably and I am able to run it up w= ith the prop to over 6000 (IVO in flight adjustable at fine pitch. Don't re= call MP), however, I cannot seem to get it to run smoothly at lower RPM's/I= dle.  It seems to be missing consistently.  It sounds okay as power increases but I may not be able to hear the miss w= hen it revs up.  Fuel pressure is at about 38lbs.  I have used th= e EC2's test feature and find all the coils putting out power and I replace= d all the spark plugs yesterday.  I can hear the click of the injectors when I press the program switch (but, I could n= ot get them to fire in Mode 1 test...but it seems that there may have been = a change in the way this is done after one of my units upgrade but I was wo= rking with an older EC2 manual...the one that came with the unit and not the one for the latest update I receiv= ed).

 

I am getting similar results for both A and B computers.  I reset&n= bsp;A to factory defaults since I figured it would be best since I changed = some fuel line runs.  I have left B as it was when I was last fly= ing.  I am thinking this minimizes the EC2 as the culprit.  Mixture does not seem to make much difference.  I do have separate sw= itches for both primary and secondary injectors and coils.  I am not g= etting any great improvement in any combination of on and off combinations.=

 

Since I am home preparing for a Colonoscopy tomorrow (yeah, as y'all who= have been here know, I am not really able to head out to the hangar...isn'= t being over 50 fun), I have been searching the archives.  The problem= is our archives are a bit hard to search.  Not only is it difficult to use the correct term, our threads seem to drif= t a bit. :-). 

 

Temperatures on oil and coolant are reassuring.  I can get my coola= nt numbers down from 200 when stationary for a while to the low 180's just = from a moderate taxi speed.  Oil has been below 180....actually even l= ower if memory serves.

 

So, once again I reach out to our collective.  Even with Osh, today= s tech may allow some to comment and provide direction.  Heck, ma= ybe y'all can discuss in person........;-)

 

Chris

Itching to get my bird back home and save the extra $250 a month for a s= econd hangar, but not wanting to prematurely launch....oh, and actually be = flying again.

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