X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from omr-m03.mx.aol.com ([64.12.143.77] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0.5) with ESMTPS id 6374622 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 15 Jul 2013 23:19:38 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=64.12.143.77; envelope-from=CozyGirrrl@aol.com Received: from mtaomg-da01.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtaomg-da01.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.51.137]) by omr-m03.mx.aol.com (Outbound Mail Relay) with ESMTP id CF99E70036216 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2013 23:19:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from core-dsa002a.r1000.mail.aol.com (core-dsa002.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.29.252.69]) by mtaomg-da01.r1000.mx.aol.com (OMAG/Core Interface) with ESMTP id 97B9CE000086 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2013 23:19:03 -0400 (EDT) From: CozyGirrrl@aol.com Full-name: CozyGirrrl Message-ID: Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2013 23:19:03 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Turbo Selection Workbook- Rev1 To: flyrotary@lancaironline.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_a6fc8.16530cc.3f1615a7_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 9.6 sub 5004 X-Originating-IP: [69.154.35.191] x-aol-global-disposition: G DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mx.aol.com; s=20121107; t=1373944743; bh=HdNULCfq65EWLO0e6As0UIsSltEIW1OuAD7HUFsi5I0=; h=From:To:Subject:Message-ID:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=oc/XONxDnT/IJaBwqeZrPns7W8+kGJUJL8JTscjpgldVYPbciV4qOqicUPU2yiiGu kPRYJecHve6Silvmr2af28LvHC3hpKYShYwNIh2WH/4cBX54bo8wdTlZGd4R7ZbPd6 hO3YxukRXhCW9eTW+FiwJgRo72Ode6wAx2jhBezs= X-AOL-SCOLL-SCORE: 0:2:467991552:93952408 X-AOL-SCOLL-URL_COUNT: 0 x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d338951e4bba70897 --part1_a6fc8.16530cc.3f1615a7_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en I read somewhere a few years ago there is not a cert aircraft turbo =20 installation with a turbo A/R less than 1, fwiw a data point. =20 Chrissi & Randi _www.CozyGirrrl.com_ (http://www.cozygirrrl.com/)=20 ClickBonds 10/$7.50 CG Products, Custom Aircraft Hardware Chairwomen, Sun-N-Fun Engine Workshop In a message dated 7/15/2013 8:55:25 P.M. Central Daylight Time, =20 bhughes@qnsi.net writes: =20 Dave,=20 With the super charger I typically cruise with engine rpm=E2=80=99s betwee= n 4850=20 and 5400 set with the prop controller. Cruise climb around 5800-6200.=20 Throttle Body is wide open and MP controlled with a vernier cable to the s= uper=20 charger bypass. Applying these settings to the published turbo compressor= =20 maps puts me outside the surge line at low engine rpm and high altitude.= =20 Several things could be done to move the pressure ratio lower. Run higher = rpm at=20 altitudes above 15K, use a ram air inlet to eliminate and boost air=20 pressure at the turbo inlet or use an intercooler with a lower pressure dr= op. I=20 have not been able to find compressor maps that compare different turbine= =20 A/R=E2=80=99s for the same compressor components. My concern would be usin= g a .96 or=20 1.0 A/R and moving further toward the surge line. That may not be the=20 case. =20 Bobby=20 From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On=20 Behalf Of David Leonard Sent: Monday, July 15, 2013 7:16 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Turbo Selection Workbook- Rev1=20 =20 Should be no effect. Compressor map is a function of variables=20 independent of what harnessed the energy(ie, the turbine section). That it= not to=20 say that changing the turbine A/R does not effect overall efficiency and a= =20 host of other things, just not the compressor map itself. =20 =20 =20 Compressor sections also have an A/R, but changing that would mean that a= =20 whole new compressor map needs to be generated. =20 =20 On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 3:33 PM, Bobby J. Hughes <_bhughes@qnsi.net_=20 (mailto:bhughes@qnsi.net) > wrote:=20 =20 =20 I think I located and corrected two errors. Can anyone explain how the=20 turbine housing A/R affects the compressor map?=20 Bobby=20 =20 =20 From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:_flyrotary@lancaironline.net_=20 (mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net) ] On Behalf Of Bobby J. Hughes Sent: Sunday, July 14, 2013 6:51 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Turbo Selection Workbook- Initial Draft I=E2=80=99ve modified a turbo sizing workbook I found on the internet. The= =20 modification allow for 8 operational scenarios to account for altitude, ta= rget HP,=20 OAT etc. Each scenario provides a corrected airflow and pressure ratio=20 needed to select an appropriate turbo. The workbook may contain errors so = I=E2=80=99m=20 sending it out for input. Hopefully Ed or someone can validate the formula= s=20 and those flying turbo aircraft will commit on real world experience. =20 Bobby Hughes=20 -- Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub: =20 http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html --=20 David Leonard Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY _http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net_ (http://n4vy.rotaryroster.net/)=20 _http://RotaryRoster.net_ (http://rotaryroster.net/) =20 --part1_a6fc8.16530cc.3f1615a7_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en
I read somewhere a few years ago there is not a cert aircraft turbo=20 installation with a turbo A/R less than 1, fwiw a data point.
 
Chrissi &=20 Randi

www.CozyGirrrl.com
ClickB= onds=20 10/$7.50
CG Products, Custom Aircraft Hardware
Chairwomen, Sun-N-Fun= =20 Engine Workshop
 
In a message dated 7/15/2013 8:55:25 P.M. Central Daylight Time,=20 bhughes@qnsi.net writes:
=

Dave,

 

With=20 the super charger I typically cruise with engine rpm=E2=80=99s between 48= 50 and 5400=20 set with the prop controller. Cruise climb around 5800-6200. Throttle Bod= y is=20 wide open and MP controlled with a vernier cable to the super charger byp= ass.=20 Applying these settings to the published turbo compressor maps puts me ou= tside=20 the surge line at low engine rpm and high altitude. Several things could = be=20 done to move the pressure ratio lower. Run higher rpm at altitudes above = 15K,=20 use a ram air inlet to eliminate and boost air pressure at the turbo inle= t or=20 use an intercooler with a lower pressure drop.  I have not been able= to=20 find compressor maps that compare different turbine A/R=E2=80=99s for the= same=20 compressor components. My concern would be using a .96 or 1.0 A/R and mov= ing=20 further toward the surge line. That may not be the case.=20

 

Bobby

 

 

 

From: Rotary mot= ors in=20 aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of David= =20 Leonard
Sent: Monday, July 15, 2013 7:16 PM
To: Rotar= y=20 motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Turbo Selection=20 Workbook- Rev1

 

Should be no effect.   Compressor map is a func= tion of=20 variables independent of what harnessed the energy(ie, the turbine sectio= n).=20  That it not to say that changing the turbine A/R does not effect ov= erall=20 efficiency and a host of other things, just not the compressor map=20 itself. 

 

Compressor sections also have an A/R, but changing t= hat=20 would mean that a whole new compressor map needs to be=20 generated.

 

On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 3:33 PM, Bobby J. Hughes <= ;bhughes@qnsi.net> wrote:

I think I located and corrected two errors. Can = anyone=20 explain how the turbine housing A/R affects the compressor=20 map?

 

Bobby

 

 

 

From: Rotary mot= ors in=20 aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Bobb= y J.=20 Hughes
Sent: Sunday, July 14, 2013 6:51 PM
To: Rotary= =20 motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Turbo Selection Workboo= k-=20 Initial Draft

 

I=E2=80= =99ve modified a=20 turbo sizing workbook I found on the internet. The modification allow for= 8=20 operational scenarios to account for altitude, target HP, OAT etc. Each= =20 scenario provides a corrected airflow and pressure ratio needed to select= an=20 appropriate turbo. The workbook may contain errors so I=E2=80=99m sending= it out for=20 input. Hopefully Ed or someone can validate the formulas and those flying= =20 turbo aircraft will commit on real world experience.

 

Bobby Hughes

 

 


--
Homepage: &n= bsp;http://www.flyrotary.com/
Archive and UnSub:  = ; http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.htm= l



 

--
David Leonard

Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VYhttp://N4VY.RotaryRoster.nethttp://RotaryRoster.net=20

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