X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from fmailhost04.isp.att.net ([204.127.217.104] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0.1) with ESMTP id 6084898 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Tue, 26 Feb 2013 13:03:12 -0500 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=204.127.217.104; envelope-from=bbradburry@bellsouth.net Received: from desktop (adsl-98-85-148-245.mco.bellsouth.net[98.85.148.245]) by isp.att.net (frfwmhc04) with SMTP id <20130226180234H0400aq11ce>; Tue, 26 Feb 2013 18:02:35 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [98.85.148.245] From: "Bill Bradburry" To: "'Rotary motors in aircraft'" References: In-Reply-To: Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Re: 13B weight and CG location Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2013 13:02:37 -0500 Message-ID: <4B5E98818F0143D9ADEA1C1D17B29117@Desktop> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0012_01CE1421.8DBFB2F0" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-Index: Ac4UQw33DUA4qantSCSBCW+jVbQ3ZQACDOCw X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6002.18463 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01CE1421.8DBFB2F0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ivoprop claims that the Magnum 3 blade weighs 26.7 pounds. http://www.ivoprop.com/inflightmagnumodel.htm Bill B _____ From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Rob Bollinger Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2013 12:02 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: 13B weight and CG location My Ivo electric magninum 3 blade weight is 27 pounds. It can't be 7 pounds. On Tue, Feb 26, 2013 at 8:18 AM, Kenneth Johnson wrote: Hi Gordon, I had to go out and reweigh my Ivoprop. I do not know if you are familiar with this prop? The blades are made of carbon fiber and do not weigh much. A metal blade (shaft) runs down the center of each blade. An electric motor applies force to the metal blades inside each carbon fiber blade, which twists the blades, changing the pitch of each blade. The term used is an in-flight-electrical adjustable pitch prop. The motor and contact discs on the center shaft make up most of the weight. All together the 3 carbon blades and motor prop system weigh about 7 lbs. Their placement is about a foot out further anterior than if I used a Lycoming engine. Ken Johnson _____ From: Gordon Alling To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Monday, February 25, 2013 7:58 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: 13B weight and CG location Hi Ken, Thanks for your info. You are correct that I am trying to determine the position of the engine for proper aircraft CG location. At the moment, I'm trying to design the engine mount truss for the design loads. If I know the weight and CG location of the engine/prop assembly, I can model the loading in truss analysis software and play "what if" games with different truss configurations. Your 300 Lb. figure for the engine/redrive assembly and your heat exchanger weights is a start. What does your IVO prop weigh? Thanks again for the help. Gordon C. Alling, Jr., PE President acumen Engineering/Analysis, Inc. 540-786-2200 www.acumen-ea.com From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Kenneth Johnson Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2013 7:02 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: 13B weight and CG location Hi Gordon, I am not certain what you are asking. It would seem you are asking if you can use a DIY engine mount, and therefore, you are asking how far from the firewall should you place your engine? This is what I found with my engine. I am using a 13B NA engine with a PowerSport redrive. The weight of my engine and redrive is 295 lbs. My radiator weighs 15 lbs and the oil cooler weights 7 lbs. I found that when adding the weight of the radiator and oil cooler fluids, that my engine system would come very close to the weight of a Lycoming 360. It was estimated that the average weight of the prop would be 27 lbs. My Ivoprop weighs less than that, but the prop is positioned much farther anterior than with a Lycoming because of the redrive. So, the arm is out there. Tracy's point on the cg of the engine being positioned just inside the first end plate would be pretty accurate. I am getting closer to finishing a Zenith 801, so I am yet unable to offer actual flight experience. Zenith did provide numbers for the installation of a Lycoming 360 and I compared my numbers to theirs. I had anticipated that I would be placing my engine a great distance from the firewall because everyone says the 13B is so light. However, after adding the weight of all the "extras," plus the fact that the arm of my prop is out a much greater distance than with a Lycoming, I actually had to move the engine closer to the firewall than if I used a Lycoming. I concluded that I needed to design and build my own engine mount. I hope this is helpful. Ken johnson _____ From: Gordon Alling To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2013 8:07 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] 13B weight and CG location I'm considering a DIY engine mount for my turbo 13B engine. Does anyone out there with an operating 13B (turbo or NA) have good numbers for the installed weight and CG location for his/her engine/redrive/prop combination? I want some ballpark numbers to get started. Thanks. Gordon C. Alling, Jr., PE President acumen Engineering/Analysis, Inc. 540-786-2200 www.acumen-ea.com -- Robert Bollinger MR722 MUM Fairfield, IA 52557 (641)919-3213 rob@mum.edu ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01CE1421.8DBFB2F0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Ivoprop claims that the Magnum 3 = blade weighs 26.7 pounds.

 

http://www.ivoprop= .com/inflightmagnumodel.htm

 

Bill B =

 

From: = Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Rob Bollinger
Sent: Tuesday, February = 26, 2013 12:02 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = 13B weight and CG location

 

My Ivo electric magninum 3 blade weight is 27 pounds. = It can't be 7 pounds.

 

On Tue, Feb 26, 2013 at 8:18 AM, Kenneth Johnson <kjohnsondds@yahoo.com> wrote:

Hi Gordon,
I had to go out and reweigh my Ivoprop.  I do not know if you are = familiar with this prop?  The blades are made of carbon fiber and do not = weigh much.  A metal blade (shaft) runs down the center of each = blade.  An electric motor applies force to the metal blades inside each carbon = fiber blade, which twists the blades, changing the pitch of each blade.  = The term used is an in-flight-electrical adjustable pitch prop.  The = motor and contact discs on the center shaft make up most of the weight.  All together the 3 carbon blades and motor prop system weigh about 7 = lbs.  Their placement is about a foot out further anterior than if I used a = Lycoming engine.  Ken Johnson

 

 

From: Gordon Alling <gordon@acumen-ea.com>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Monday, February = 25, 2013 7:58 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = 13B weight and CG location

 

Hi = Ken,

 

Thanks for = your info.  You are correct that I am trying to determine the position of the engine = for proper aircraft CG location.  At the moment, I’m trying to = design the engine mount truss for the design loads.  If I know the weight and = CG location of the engine/prop assembly, I can model the loading in truss = analysis software and play “what if” games with different truss = configurations.  Your 300 Lb. figure for the engine/redrive assembly and your heat = exchanger weights is a start.  What does your IVO prop weigh?  =

 

Thanks = again for the help.

 

Gordon C. = Alling, Jr., PE

President

acumen Engineering/Analysis, = Inc.

 

 

From: = Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Kenneth = Johnson
Sent: Sunday, February = 24, 2013 7:02 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = 13B weight and CG location

 

Hi Gordon,
I am not certain what you are asking.  It would seem you are asking = if you can use a DIY engine mount, and therefore, you are asking how far from = the firewall should you place your engine?  This is what I found with = my engine.  I am using a 13B NA engine with a PowerSport redrive.  The weight = of my engine and redrive is 295 lbs.  My radiator weighs 15 lbs and the = oil cooler weights 7 lbs.  I found that when adding the weight of the = radiator and oil cooler fluids, that my engine system would come very close to = the weight of a Lycoming 360.  It was estimated that the average weight = of the prop would be 27 lbs.  My Ivoprop weighs less than that, but the = prop is positioned much farther anterior than with a Lycoming because of the redrive.   So, the arm is out there.  Tracy's point on the cg of the = engine being positioned just inside the first end plate would be pretty = accurate. 

I am getting closer to finishing a Zenith 801, so I am yet unable to = offer actual flight experience.  Zenith did provide numbers for the = installation of a Lycoming 360 and I compared my numbers to theirs.  I had = anticipated that I would be placing my engine a great distance from the firewall = because everyone says the 13B is so light.  However, after adding the = weight of all the "extras," plus the fact that the arm of my prop is out = a much greater distance than with a Lycoming, I actually had to move the engine = closer to the firewall than if I used a Lycoming.  I concluded that I = needed to design and build my own engine mount.

I hope this is helpful.

Ken johnson

From: Gordon Alling <gordon@acumen-ea.com>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Thursday, February = 21, 2013 8:07 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] 13B = weight and CG location

 

I’m considering a DIY engine mount for = my turbo 13B engine.  Does anyone out there with an operating 13B (turbo or NA) = have good numbers for the installed weight and CG location for his/her engine/redrive/prop combination?  I want some ballpark numbers to = get started.

 

Thanks.

 

Gordon C. Alling, Jr., = PE

President

acumen Enginee= ring/Analysis, Inc.

 

 

 

 



 

--

Robert Bollinger

MR722 MUM

Fairfield, IA 52557

(641)919-3213

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