X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from mail-la0-f41.google.com ([209.85.215.41] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0.1) with ESMTPS id 6084747 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Tue, 26 Feb 2013 12:02:23 -0500 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.215.41; envelope-from=rob@mum.edu Received: by mail-la0-f41.google.com with SMTP id fo12so4143504lab.14 for ; Tue, 26 Feb 2013 09:01:47 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:x-received:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :subject:from:to:content-type:x-gm-message-state; bh=Ev4Z09dR5nM1sdl46Fh9+4G5Svkc6THQfmZGhlvF4Ks=; b=JXXGcbbBqlvSjQjcAd8BEUNSWnf3jy9u274BxWzUeiNusWXD4ptVT/EBwVl/aUGOks hoB+0f734QATb9jr+2C8ejEKDPe/T7vwTp458js3xo6c2tVJh7Lhat7obFEra881AnLU QW3I+tlgdmA5eTnO0lku3p14rIk9P9V8GeE2e+7+EsVRlgwEqtkWbJmxepsmmZdac55T WFyYDJ6MA/qBySwXiSTnjbic6yoIqEBJtnj72XHF9iFXxJhV+qoh5HL+Bqs3dhYlKiBa 8QMsY4JkVZFssX1dTHou869t5DIsSfdzPh7DaBgIV8QT5SvA+DGnQJTjrunxzUHdL5AO A0Jw== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.112.100.41 with SMTP id ev9mr879742lbb.34.1361898107115; Tue, 26 Feb 2013 09:01:47 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.112.10.166 with HTTP; Tue, 26 Feb 2013 09:01:46 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2013 11:01:46 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: 13B weight and CG location From: Rob Bollinger To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=14dae9d719a2e5408d04d6a39c60 X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQkNRH9269klYFQPWs4MHhsCNGBRt8aFgNVebN6jQzsNgN46UST5sX/HOY6Gzk1vIZJ9mdha --14dae9d719a2e5408d04d6a39c60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable My Ivo electric magninum 3 blade weight is 27 pounds. It can't be 7 pounds. On Tue, Feb 26, 2013 at 8:18 AM, Kenneth Johnson wro= te: > Hi Gordon, > I had to go out and reweigh my Ivoprop. I do not know if you are familia= r > with this prop? The blades are made of carbon fiber and do not weigh > much. A metal blade (shaft) runs down the center of each blade. An > electric motor applies force to the metal blades inside each carbon fiber > blade, which twists the blades, changing the pitch of each blade. The te= rm > used is an in-flight-electrical adjustable pitch prop. The motor and > contact discs on the center shaft make up most of the weight. All togeth= er > the 3 carbon blades and motor prop system weigh about 7 lbs. Their > placement is about a foot out further anterior than if I used a Lycoming > engine. Ken Johnson > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Gordon Alling > *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft > *Sent:* Monday, February 25, 2013 7:58 AM > *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: 13B weight and CG location > > Hi Ken, > > Thanks for your info. You are correct that I am trying to determine the > position of the engine for proper aircraft CG location. At the moment, I= =92m > trying to design the engine mount truss for the design loads. If I know > the weight and CG location of the engine/prop assembly, I can model the > loading in truss analysis software and play =93what if=94 games with diff= erent > truss configurations. Your 300 Lb. figure for the engine/redrive assembl= y > and your heat exchanger weights is a start. What does your IVO prop > weigh? > > Thanks again for the help. > > Gordon C. Alling, Jr., PE > President > *acumen* *Engineering/Analysis, Inc.* > > 540-786-2200 > www.acumen-ea.com > > *From:* Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] *O= n > Behalf Of *Kenneth Johnson > *Sent:* Sunday, February 24, 2013 7:02 PM > *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft > *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: 13B weight and CG location > > Hi Gordon, > I am not certain what you are asking. It would seem you are asking if yo= u > can use a DIY engine mount, and therefore, you are asking how far from th= e > firewall should you place your engine? This is what I found with my > engine. I am using a 13B NA engine with a PowerSport redrive. The weigh= t > of my engine and redrive is 295 lbs. My radiator weighs 15 lbs and the o= il > cooler weights 7 lbs. I found that when adding the weight of the radiato= r > and oil cooler fluids, that my engine system would come very close to the > weight of a Lycoming 360. It was estimated that the average weight of th= e > prop would be 27 lbs. My Ivoprop weighs less than that, but the prop is > positioned much farther anterior than with a Lycoming because of the > redrive. So, the arm is out there. Tracy's point on the cg of the engi= ne > being positioned just inside the first end plate would be pretty accurate= . > > I am getting closer to finishing a Zenith 801, so I am yet unable to offe= r > actual flight experience. Zenith did provide numbers for the installatio= n > of a Lycoming 360 and I compared my numbers to theirs. I had anticipated > that I would be placing my engine a great distance from the firewall > because everyone says the 13B is so light. However, after adding the > weight of all the "extras," plus the fact that the arm of my prop is out = a > much greater distance than with a Lycoming, I actually had to move the > engine closer to the firewall than if I used a Lycoming. I concluded tha= t > I needed to design and build my own engine mount. > > I hope this is helpful. > > Ken johnson > ------------------------------ > *From:* Gordon Alling > *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft > *Sent:* Thursday, February 21, 2013 8:07 AM > *Subject:* [FlyRotary] 13B weight and CG location > > I=92m considering a DIY engine mount for my turbo 13B engine. Does anyon= e > out there with an operating 13B (turbo or NA) have good numbers for the > installed weight and CG location for his/her engine/redrive/prop > combination? I want some ballpark numbers to get started. > > Thanks. > > Gordon C. Alling, Jr., PE > President > *acumen* *Engineering/Analysis, Inc.* > > 540-786-2200 > www.acumen-ea.com > > > > > --=20 Robert Bollinger MR722 MUM Fairfield, IA 52557 (641)919-3213 rob@mum.edu --14dae9d719a2e5408d04d6a39c60 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
My Ivo electric=A0magninum=A03 blade weight is 27 pounds. = It can't be 7 pounds.


On Tue, Feb 26, 2013 at 8:18 AM, Kenneth Johnson <kj= ohnsondds@yahoo.com> wrote:
Hi Gordon,
I had to go out and r= eweigh my Ivoprop.=A0 I do not know if you are familiar with this prop?=A0 = The blades are made of carbon fiber and do not weigh much.=A0 A metal blade= (shaft) runs down the center of each blade.=A0 An electric motor applies f= orce to the metal blades inside each carbon fiber blade, which twists the b= lades, changing the pitch of each blade.=A0 The term used is an in-flight-e= lectrical adjustable pitch prop.=A0 The motor and contact discs on the cent= er shaft make up most of the weight.=A0 All together the 3 carbon blades an= d motor prop system weigh about 7 lbs.=A0 Their placement is about a foot o= ut further anterior than if I used a Lycoming engine.=A0 Ken Johnson


From: Gordon Alling <gordon@acumen-ea.co= m>
To: Rotary mot= ors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Monday, February 25, = 2013 7:58 AM
Subject: [F= lyRotary] Re: 13B weight and CG location

Hi Ken,
=A0
Thanks for your info.=A0 You are correct th= at I am trying to determine the position of the engine for proper aircraft = CG location.=A0 At the moment, I=92m trying to design the engine mount trus= s for the design loads.=A0 If I know the weight and CG location of the engi= ne/prop assembly, I can model the loading in truss analysis software and pl= ay =93what if=94 games with different truss configurations.=A0 Your 300 Lb.= figure for the engine/redrive assembly and your heat exchanger weights is a start.=A0 What does your IVO= prop weigh?=A0
=A0
Thanks again for the help.
=A0
Gordon C. Alling, Jr., PE
=
President
acumen= Engineering/Analysis, Inc.<= /b>
=A0
=A0
From: Rotary motor= s in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Kenneth Jo= hnson
Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2013 7:02 PM
To: Rotary motors = in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: 13B weight and CG location
=A0
Hi Gordon,
I am not certain what you are asking.=A0 It would= seem you are asking if you can use a DIY engine mount, and therefore, you = are asking how far from the firewall should you place your engine?=A0 This = is what I found with my engine.=A0 I am using a 13B NA engine with a PowerS= port redrive.=A0 The weight of my engine and redrive is 295 lbs.=A0 My radi= ator weighs 15 lbs and the oil cooler weights 7 lbs.=A0 I found that when a= dding the weight of the radiator and oil cooler fluids, that my engine syst= em would come very close to the weight of a Lycoming 360.=A0 It was estimat= ed that the average weight of the prop would be 27 lbs.=A0 My Ivoprop weigh= s less than that, but the prop is positioned much farther anterior than wit= h a Lycoming because of the redrive.=A0=A0 So, the arm is out there.=A0 Tra= cy's point on the cg of the engine being positioned just inside the first end plate would be pretty accurate.=A0

I am getting closer t= o finishing a Zenith 801, so I am yet unable to offer actual flight experie= nce.=A0 Zenith did provide numbers for the installation of a Lycoming 360 a= nd I compared my numbers to theirs.=A0 I had anticipated that I would be pl= acing my engine a great distance from the firewall because everyone says th= e 13B is so light.=A0 However, after adding the weight of all the "ext= ras," plus the fact that the arm of my prop is out a much greater dist= ance than with a Lycoming, I actually had to move the engine closer to the = firewall than if I used a Lycoming.=A0 I concluded that I needed to design = and build my own engine mount.

I hope this is helpful.

Ken johnson
<= div style=3D"text-align:center;background:white" align=3D"center">
From:= Gordon Alling <gordon@acumen-ea.com>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net= >
Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2013 8:07 AM
Subject= : [FlyRotary] 13B weight and CG location
=A0
I=92m considering a= DIY engine mount for my turbo 13B engine.=A0 Does anyone out there with an= operating 13B (turbo or NA) have good numbers for the installed weight and= CG location for his/her engine/redrive/prop combination?=A0 I want some ba= llpark numbers to get started.
=A0
Thanks.
=A0
Gordon C. Alling, Jr., PE
President
acumen Engineering/Analysis, Inc.
=A0


=


<= br>
--
Robert Bollinger
MR722 MUM
Fair= field, IA 52557
(641)919-3213
--14dae9d719a2e5408d04d6a39c60--