X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from imr-db01.mx.aol.com ([205.188.91.95] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0.1) with ESMTP id 6069897 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 18 Feb 2013 10:59:53 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=205.188.91.95; envelope-from=ARGOLDMAN@aol.com Received: from mtaomg-mb03.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtaomg-mb03.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.41.74]) by imr-db01.mx.aol.com (Outbound Mail Relay) with ESMTP id 2B9AC380000CF for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2013 10:59:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from core-dse003b.r1000.mail.aol.com (core-dse003.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.29.227.201]) by mtaomg-mb03.r1000.mx.aol.com (OMAG/Core Interface) with ESMTP id EC8BFE000086 for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2013 10:59:18 -0500 (EST) From: ARGOLDMAN@aol.com Full-name: ARGOLDMAN Message-ID: <8018.6ba489e3.3e53a9d6@aol.com> Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 10:59:18 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Intake progress To: flyrotary@lancaironline.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_8018.6ba489e3.3e53a9d6_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 9.7 sub 56 X-Originating-IP: [24.14.64.174] x-aol-global-disposition: G DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mx.aol.com; s=20121107; t=1361203159; bh=9krmif6ZTTebfOu5DxSdSMsLG0pTX+Wals1rFAWwSN0=; h=From:To:Subject:Message-ID:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=OUlhVpD3ni7Sv68ayQl0HLvLEcOKmtspUJAw3cuquBnSr/1hna3gvRL/vPfSUMHHc D7Yma/H2jogeRM3iqHYbvbv0N2mtYx3w3jszpk02yt0xYNn1dDAybtWfgh0H75pKJW EURX/BbyWhOagKnBwR2qFXYAYZuRZ+/iUpUHNJmE= X-AOL-SCOLL-SCORE: 0:2:483363328:93952408 X-AOL-SCOLL-URL_COUNT: 0 x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d294a51224fd615d7 --part1_8018.6ba489e3.3e53a9d6_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ed, going to the new gear box, are you still taking off at 6000-6200 RPM WOT or did that change? Rich In a message dated 2/18/2013 7:22:54 A.M. Central Standard Time, eanderson@carolina.rr.com writes: Never had it on a dyno, Steve, but based on fuel flow and performance, I see 17.0 17.5 GPH WOT at take off (6000 rpm) which would equate to roughly 175HP on a 70-90 F day. On a cold day <50F I see 19-20 gph (at 6100-6200 RPM) WOT on Take off which would give approx 190 HP - increase in performance is quite evident on the cold days. But, again no dyno time or data. But, when I went from my old 2.17 gearbox and 67/72 prop to the 2.85 and 74/88 prop - that really is what changed the performance dramatically - particularly for take off and climbout, surprisingly top speed also increased around 4-6MPH TAS. First take off took work to keep it on the runway (I'm glad Tracy warned me) with all the right rudder I had. I have since learned in my RV-6a that letting it get to around 40 mph before apply full throttle makes take off less exciting {:>) Ed From: _Stephen Izett_ (mailto:steveizett@me.com) Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2013 6:17 PM To: _Rotary motors in aircraft_ (mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net) Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Intake progress Ed What do you guestimate your HP to be and at what RPM? Cheers Steve Izett On 18/02/2013, at 7:03 AM, Ed Anderson wrote: Looks good, Charlie No welder myself, however when it came time to attach 0.049 wall aluminum tubing to the cast aluminum stock manifold (see photo attached), I found a brazing rod for aluminum that worked great. Used a butane torch (more BTU/min the better) to first heat the casting (your plate would be easier) and then brought the flame close to the tubing - but not playing on the tubing. touched the brazing rod to the intersection and it did a great job. Been flying for 8 years with that throttle body (blue half moon) stuck out on the end without any additional support and still OK. Here is the website for the rod I used successfully - before trying this rod, I probably had 10 lbs or various rods that I never had any luck with, but this worked. _http://www.aluminumrepair.com/_ (http://www.aluminumrepair.com/) Ed -------------------------------------------------- From: "Charlie England" <_ceengland7@gmail.com_ (mailto:ceengland7@gmail.com) > Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2013 3:41 PM To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" <_flyrotary@lancaironline.net_ (mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net) > Subject: [FlyRotary] Intake progress > > Now that everyone's awake again, I thought I'd send a pic of my intake > progress (RV-7 Renesis with James Lyc cowl). I played with a couple of > different materials for the bell mouths. I tried gluing up some 1/4" > plexi from an old windshield, but used super glue instead of proper > plexi cement (which I wasn't able to find locally in a hurry). The 1st > try popped apart on the lathe; the 2nd turned out ok. Next effort was > with 3/4" MDF (medium density fiberboard). That went well, until I put a > little too much side pressure on the ring (homemade cutting tool) after > undercutting the center section. Overall tube lengths will be ~11 3/4" > block surface to bell ends. The plenum is *much* bigger than most tuning > sites recommend. I figure that I can experiment with plenum size by just > stuffing it with rigid foam to take up some volume, if needed. Going the > other way wouldn't be so easy. :-) > > Since I don't have Mark's TIG skills, I thought I'd ask what others have > used in joining thin wall tubing to 1/4" aluminum plate. Aluminum > brazing rod? High temp epoxy? JB weld? I do intend to add bracing from > the plate to the plenum assembly to take some of the cantilever & > vibration stress off the tubes. > > I'm using this length and concept because Tracy has had great luck with > both HP & BSFC on his Renesis with a similar configuration. However, I'm > curious about how others have adapted the common Helmholtz intake tuning > formulas to the rotary. Would anyone care to 'show their (math) work'? > Renesis users would be better for me, but any calcs would do. When I > tried to adapt the common formulas to a rotary, I was getting > 'interesting' results, so I'd like to know if I got lost somewhere while > trying to plug rotary 'valve' timing into the formulas. > > Charlie > (Sorry for the sideways iphone pic; I guess you can pretend that you're > looking down on it...) > > -- > Homepage: _http://www.flyrotary.com/_ (http://www.flyrotary.com/) > Archive and UnSub: _http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html_ (http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html) > > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - _www.avg.com_ (http://www.avg.com/) > Version: 2013.0.2899 / Virus Database: 2639/6110 - Release Date: 02/17/13 -- Homepage: _http://www.flyrotary.com/_ (http://www.flyrotary.com/) Archive and UnSub: _http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html_ (http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html) No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - _www.avg.com_ (http://www.avg.com/) Version: 2013.0.2899 / Virus Database: 2639/6110 - Release Date: 02/17/13 --part1_8018.6ba489e3.3e53a9d6_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Ed,
 
going to the new gear box, are you still taking off at 6000-6200 RPM W= OT or=20 did that change?
 
Rich
 
In a message dated 2/18/2013 7:22:54 A.M. Central Standard Time,=20 eanderson@carolina.rr.com writes:
=
Never had it on a dyno, Steve, but based on fuel = flow=20 and performance, I see 17.0 17.5 GPH WOT at take off (6000 rpm) which wou= ld=20 equate to roughly 175HP on a 70-90 F day.  On a cold day <50F I s= ee=20 19-20 gph (at 6100-6200 RPM) WOT on Take off which would give a= pprox=20 190 HP - increase in performance is quite evident on the cold=20 days.
 
But, again no dyno time or data.  But, when = I went=20 from my old 2.17 gearbox and 67/72 prop to the 2.85 and 74/88 prop - that= =20 really is what changed the performance dramatically - particularly for ta= ke=20 off and climbout, surprisingly top speed also increased around 4-6MP= H=20 TAS.  First take off took work to keep it on the runway (I'm glad Tr= acy=20 warned me) with all the right rudder I had.  I have since learn= ed in=20 my RV-6a that letting it get to around 40 mph before apply full throttle = makes=20 take off less exciting {:>)
 
 
Ed

Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2013 6:17 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Intake progress

Ed=20
What do you guestimate your HP to be and at what RPM?

Cheers

Steve Izett
On 18/02/2013, at 7:03 AM, Ed Anderson wrote:
Looks good, Charlie

No welder myself, however when it came = time=20 to attach  0.049 wall aluminum tubing to the cast aluminum stock= =20 manifold (see photo attached), I found a brazing rod for aluminum that= =20 worked great. 

Used a butane torch (more BTU/min the bette= r) to=20 first heat the casting (your plate would be easier) and then brought th= e=20 flame close to the tubing - but not playing on the tubing.  touche= d the=20 brazing rod to the intersection and it did a great job.  Been flyi= ng=20 for 8 years with that throttle body (blue half moon) stuck out on the e= nd=20 without any additional support and still OK.

Here is the website= for=20 the rod I used successfully - before trying this rod, I probably had 10= lbs=20 or various rods that I never had any luck with, but this=20 worked.


http://www.aluminumrepair.com/<= /A>
 

Ed

-------------------------------------= -------------
From:=20 "Charlie England" <ceengland7@gmail.com>
Se= nt:=20 Sunday, February 17, 2013 3:41 PM
To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" &l= t;flyrotary@lancaironline.net= >
Subject:=20 [FlyRotary] Intake progress

>
> Now that everyone's aw= ake=20 again, I thought I'd send a pic of my intake
> progress (RV-7 Re= nesis=20 with James Lyc cowl). I played with a couple of
> different mate= rials=20 for the bell mouths. I tried gluing up some 1/4"
> plexi from an= old=20 windshield, but used super glue instead of proper
> plexi cement= =20 (which I wasn't able to find locally in a hurry). The 1st
> try= =20 popped apart on the lathe; the 2nd turned out ok. Next effort was
&= gt;=20 with 3/4" MDF (medium density fiberboard). That went well, until I put = a=20
> little too much side pressure on the ring (homemade cutting to= ol)=20 after
> undercutting the center section. Overall tube lengths wi= ll be=20 ~11 3/4"
> block surface to bell ends. The plenum is *much* bigg= er=20 than most tuning
> sites recommend. I figure that I can experime= nt=20 with plenum size by just
> stuffing it with rigid foam to take u= p=20 some volume, if needed. Going the
> other way wouldn't be so eas= y.=20 :-)
>
> Since I don't have Mark's TIG skills, I thought I'= d ask=20 what others have
> used in joining thin wall tubing to 1/4" alum= inum=20 plate. Aluminum
> brazing rod? High temp epoxy? JB weld? I do in= tend=20 to add bracing from
> the plate to the plenum assembly to take s= ome=20 of the cantilever &
> vibration stress off the tubes.
>= ;=20
> I'm using this length and concept because Tracy has had great = luck=20 with
> both HP & BSFC on his Renesis with a similar=20 configuration. However, I'm
> curious about how others have adap= ted=20 the common Helmholtz intake tuning
> formulas to the rotary. Wou= ld=20 anyone care to 'show their (math) work'?
> Renesis users would b= e=20 better for me, but any calcs would do. When I
> tried to adapt t= he=20 common formulas to a rotary, I was getting
> 'interesting' resul= ts,=20 so I'd like to know if I got lost somewhere while
> trying to pl= ug=20 rotary 'valve' timing into the formulas.
>
> Charlie
&g= t;=20 (Sorry for the sideways iphone pic; I guess you can pretend that you're= =20
> looking down on it...)
>



> --
>= =20 Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
>= ;=20 Archive and UnSub:   htt= p://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html
>

=

>=20 -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - = www.avg.com
>=20 Version: 2013.0.2899 / Virus Database: 2639/6110 - Release Date:=20 02/17/13
<Back6th.jpg>--
Homepage: &nb= sp;http://www.flyrotary.com/
Arc= hive=20 and UnSub:   htt= p://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html

No virus found in this=20 message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2013.0.2899 / Vi= rus=20 Database: 2639/6110 - Release Date:=20 02/17/13

--part1_8018.6ba489e3.3e53a9d6_boundary--