X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from nk11p08mm-asmtp002.mac.com ([17.158.58.247] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0.1) with ESMTP id 6069478 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 18 Feb 2013 08:29:16 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=17.158.58.247; envelope-from=steveizett@me.com Received: from [10.1.1.6] (58-7-247-163.dyn.iinet.net.au [58.7.247.163]) by nk11p08mm-asmtp002.mac.com (Oracle Communications Messaging Server 7u4-26.01(7.0.4.26.0) 64bit (built Jul 13 2012)) with ESMTPSA id <0MIF004HN43ORZ00@nk11p08mm-asmtp002.mac.com> for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 18 Feb 2013 13:28:41 +0000 (GMT) X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:5.9.8327,1.0.431,0.0.0000 definitions=2013-02-18_02:2013-02-18,2013-02-18,1970-01-01 signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 spamscore=0 ipscore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=6.0.2-1203120001 definitions=main-1302180091 From: Stephen Izett MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1283) Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_B399DF29-455B-47EF-9CBF-550A65CDDCFB" Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Intake progress Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 21:28:35 +0800 In-reply-to: To: Rotary motors in aircraft References: Message-id: <7A14BAC0-38F0-47FF-AA57-064C7C6F5530@me.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1283) --Apple-Mail=_B399DF29-455B-47EF-9CBF-550A65CDDCFB Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Thanks Ed. Much appreciated Steve Izett=20 On 18/02/2013, at 9:21 PM, Ed Anderson wrote: > Never had it on a dyno, Steve, but based on fuel flow and performance, = I see 17.0 17.5 GPH WOT at take off (6000 rpm) which would equate to = roughly 175HP on a 70-90 F day. On a cold day <50F I see 19-20 gph (at = 6100-6200 RPM) WOT on Take off which would give approx 190 HP - increase = in performance is quite evident on the cold days. > =20 > But, again no dyno time or data. But, when I went from my old 2.17 = gearbox and 67/72 prop to the 2.85 and 74/88 prop - that really is what = changed the performance dramatically - particularly for take off and = climbout, surprisingly top speed also increased around 4-6MPH TAS. = First take off took work to keep it on the runway (I'm glad Tracy warned = me) with all the right rudder I had. I have since learned in my RV-6a = that letting it get to around 40 mph before apply full throttle makes = take off less exciting {:>) > =20 > =20 > Ed >=20 > From: Stephen Izett > Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2013 6:17 PM > To: Rotary motors in aircraft > Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Intake progress >=20 > Ed > What do you guestimate your HP to be and at what RPM? >=20 > Cheers >=20 > Steve Izett > On 18/02/2013, at 7:03 AM, Ed Anderson wrote: >=20 >> Looks good, Charlie >>=20 >> No welder myself, however when it came time to attach 0.049 wall = aluminum tubing to the cast aluminum stock manifold (see photo = attached), I found a brazing rod for aluminum that worked great. =20 >>=20 >> Used a butane torch (more BTU/min the better) to first heat the = casting (your plate would be easier) and then brought the flame close to = the tubing - but not playing on the tubing. touched the brazing rod to = the intersection and it did a great job. Been flying for 8 years with = that throttle body (blue half moon) stuck out on the end without any = additional support and still OK. >>=20 >> Here is the website for the rod I used successfully - before trying = this rod, I probably had 10 lbs or various rods that I never had any = luck with, but this worked. >>=20 >>=20 >> http://www.aluminumrepair.com/ >> =20 >>=20 >> Ed >>=20 >> -------------------------------------------------- >> From: "Charlie England" >> Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2013 3:41 PM >> To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" >> Subject: [FlyRotary] Intake progress >>=20 >> >=20 >> > Now that everyone's awake again, I thought I'd send a pic of my = intake=20 >> > progress (RV-7 Renesis with James Lyc cowl). I played with a couple = of=20 >> > different materials for the bell mouths. I tried gluing up some = 1/4"=20 >> > plexi from an old windshield, but used super glue instead of proper=20= >> > plexi cement (which I wasn't able to find locally in a hurry). The = 1st=20 >> > try popped apart on the lathe; the 2nd turned out ok. Next effort = was=20 >> > with 3/4" MDF (medium density fiberboard). That went well, until I = put a=20 >> > little too much side pressure on the ring (homemade cutting tool) = after=20 >> > undercutting the center section. Overall tube lengths will be ~11 = 3/4"=20 >> > block surface to bell ends. The plenum is *much* bigger than most = tuning=20 >> > sites recommend. I figure that I can experiment with plenum size by = just=20 >> > stuffing it with rigid foam to take up some volume, if needed. = Going the=20 >> > other way wouldn't be so easy. :-) >> >=20 >> > Since I don't have Mark's TIG skills, I thought I'd ask what others = have=20 >> > used in joining thin wall tubing to 1/4" aluminum plate. Aluminum=20= >> > brazing rod? High temp epoxy? JB weld? I do intend to add bracing = from=20 >> > the plate to the plenum assembly to take some of the cantilever &=20= >> > vibration stress off the tubes. >> >=20 >> > I'm using this length and concept because Tracy has had great luck = with=20 >> > both HP & BSFC on his Renesis with a similar configuration. = However, I'm=20 >> > curious about how others have adapted the common Helmholtz intake = tuning=20 >> > formulas to the rotary. Would anyone care to 'show their (math) = work'?=20 >> > Renesis users would be better for me, but any calcs would do. When = I=20 >> > tried to adapt the common formulas to a rotary, I was getting=20 >> > 'interesting' results, so I'd like to know if I got lost somewhere = while=20 >> > trying to plug rotary 'valve' timing into the formulas. >> >=20 >> > Charlie >> > (Sorry for the sideways iphone pic; I guess you can pretend that = you're=20 >> > looking down on it...) >> > >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> > -- >> > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >> > Archive and UnSub: = http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html >> > >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> > ----- >> > No virus found in this message. >> > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> > Version: 2013.0.2899 / Virus Database: 2639/6110 - Release Date: = 02/17/13 >> -- >> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >> Archive and UnSub: = http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html >=20 > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 2013.0.2899 / Virus Database: 2639/6110 - Release Date: = 02/17/13 >=20 --Apple-Mail=_B399DF29-455B-47EF-9CBF-550A65CDDCFB Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Thanks Ed.
Much appreciated

Steve Izett 
On 18/02/2013, at 9:21 PM, Ed Anderson wrote:

Never had it on a dyno, Steve, but based on fuel flow and performance, I see 17.0 17.5 GPH WOT at take off (6000 rpm) which would equate to roughly 175HP on a 70-90 F day.  On a cold day <50F I see 19-20 gph (at 6100-6200 RPM) WOT on Take off which would give approx 190 HP - increase in performance is quite evident on the cold days.
 
But, again no dyno time or data.  But, when I went from my old 2.17 gearbox and 67/72 prop to the 2.85 and 74/88 prop - that really is what changed the performance dramatically - particularly for take off and climbout, surprisingly top speed also increased around 4-6MPH TAS.  First take off took work to keep it on the runway (I'm glad Tracy warned me) with all the right rudder I had.  I have since learned in my RV-6a that letting it get to around 40 mph before apply full throttle makes take off less exciting {:>)
 
 
Ed

Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2013 6:17 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Intake progress

Ed
What do you guestimate your HP to be and at what RPM?

Cheers

Steve Izett
On 18/02/2013, at 7:03 AM, Ed Anderson wrote:

Looks good, Charlie

No welder myself, however when it came time to attach  0.049 wall aluminum tubing to the cast aluminum stock manifold (see photo attached), I found a brazing rod for aluminum that worked great. 

Used a butane torch (more BTU/min the better) to first heat the casting (your plate would be easier) and then brought the flame close to the tubing - but not playing on the tubing.  touched the brazing rod to the intersection and it did a great job.  Been flying for 8 years with that throttle body (blue half moon) stuck out on the end without any additional support and still OK.

Here is the website for the rod I used successfully - before trying this rod, I probably had 10 lbs or various rods that I never had any luck with, but this worked.


http://www.aluminumrepair.com/
 

Ed

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Charlie England" <ceengland7@gmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2013 3:41 PM
To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Subject: [FlyRotary] Intake progress

>
> Now that everyone's awake again, I thought I'd send a pic of my intake
> progress (RV-7 Renesis with James Lyc cowl). I played with a couple of
> different materials for the bell mouths. I tried gluing up some 1/4"
> plexi from an old windshield, but used super glue instead of proper
> plexi cement (which I wasn't able to find locally in a hurry). The 1st
> try popped apart on the lathe; the 2nd turned out ok. Next effort was
> with 3/4" MDF (medium density fiberboard). That went well, until I put a
> little too much side pressure on the ring (homemade cutting tool) after
> undercutting the center section. Overall tube lengths will be ~11 3/4"
> block surface to bell ends. The plenum is *much* bigger than most tuning
> sites recommend. I figure that I can experiment with plenum size by just
> stuffing it with rigid foam to take up some volume, if needed. Going the
> other way wouldn't be so easy. :-)
>
> Since I don't have Mark's TIG skills, I thought I'd ask what others have
> used in joining thin wall tubing to 1/4" aluminum plate. Aluminum
> brazing rod? High temp epoxy? JB weld? I do intend to add bracing from
> the plate to the plenum assembly to take some of the cantilever &
> vibration stress off the tubes.
>
> I'm using this length and concept because Tracy has had great luck with
> both HP & BSFC on his Renesis with a similar configuration. However, I'm
> curious about how others have adapted the common Helmholtz intake tuning
> formulas to the rotary. Would anyone care to 'show their (math) work'?
> Renesis users would be better for me, but any calcs would do. When I
> tried to adapt the common formulas to a rotary, I was getting
> 'interesting' results, so I'd like to know if I got lost somewhere while
> trying to plug rotary 'valve' timing into the formulas.
>
> Charlie
> (Sorry for the sideways iphone pic; I guess you can pretend that you're
> looking down on it...)
>



> --
> Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
> Archive and UnSub:   http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html
>



> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 2013.0.2899 / Virus Database: 2639/6110 - Release Date: 02/17/13
<Back6th.jpg>--
Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
Archive and UnSub:   http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html

No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2013.0.2899 / Virus Database: 2639/6110 - Release Date: 02/17/13


--Apple-Mail=_B399DF29-455B-47EF-9CBF-550A65CDDCFB--