X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com ([75.180.132.120] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0.1) with ESMTP id 6069447 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 18 Feb 2013 08:22:50 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=75.180.132.120; envelope-from=eanderson@carolina.rr.com Return-Path: X-Authority-Analysis: v=2.0 cv=bofO9Tmi c=1 sm=0 a=g3L/TDsr+eNLfIieSKfGkw==:17 a=AHkS0RJitIMA:10 a=6-BYsL0Sf_AA:10 a=05ChyHeVI94A:10 a=ayC55rCoAAAA:8 a=xFjqug1CyF0A:10 a=wtJ6AUfAAAAA:8 a=pGLkceISAAAA:8 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=7g1VtSJxAAAA:8 a=oCcaPWc0AAAA:8 a=Ydp7E-xTi0fc1X21cBAA:9 a=wPNLvfGTeEIA:10 a=Qa1je4BO31QA:10 a=MSl-tDqOz04A:10 a=EzXvWhQp4_cA:10 a=HHGDD-5mAAAA:8 a=IHdxdn49m_ODGWtjvLEA:9 a=_W_S_7VecoQA:10 a=i1zE5R4R5dEA:10 a=bHrFfTSYauk5e8uP:21 a=g3L/TDsr+eNLfIieSKfGkw==:117 X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 X-Authenticated-User: X-Originating-IP: 174.110.170.10 Received: from [174.110.170.10] ([174.110.170.10:53570] helo=EdPC) by cdptpa-oedge02.mail.rr.com (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 2.2.3.46 r()) with ESMTP id 4A/DB-00734-70B22215; Mon, 18 Feb 2013 13:22:16 +0000 Message-ID: <36F593D58B7A4BD38C51A99DD1C28127@EdPC> From: "Ed Anderson" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Intake progress Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 08:21:52 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0037_01CE0DB1.01710680" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 14.0.8117.416 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V14.0.8117.416 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0037_01CE0DB1.01710680 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Never had it on a dyno, Steve, but based on fuel flow and performance, I = see 17.0 17.5 GPH WOT at take off (6000 rpm) which would equate to = roughly 175HP on a 70-90 F day. On a cold day <50F I see 19-20 gph (at = 6100-6200 RPM) WOT on Take off which would give approx 190 HP - increase = in performance is quite evident on the cold days. But, again no dyno time or data. But, when I went from my old 2.17 = gearbox and 67/72 prop to the 2.85 and 74/88 prop - that really is what = changed the performance dramatically - particularly for take off and = climbout, surprisingly top speed also increased around 4-6MPH TAS. = First take off took work to keep it on the runway (I'm glad Tracy warned = me) with all the right rudder I had. I have since learned in my RV-6a = that letting it get to around 40 mph before apply full throttle makes = take off less exciting {:>) Ed From: Stephen Izett=20 Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2013 6:17 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Intake progress Ed=20 What do you guestimate your HP to be and at what RPM? Cheers Steve Izett On 18/02/2013, at 7:03 AM, Ed Anderson wrote: Looks good, Charlie No welder myself, however when it came time to attach 0.049 wall = aluminum tubing to the cast aluminum stock manifold (see photo = attached), I found a brazing rod for aluminum that worked great. =20 Used a butane torch (more BTU/min the better) to first heat the = casting (your plate would be easier) and then brought the flame close to = the tubing - but not playing on the tubing. touched the brazing rod to = the intersection and it did a great job. Been flying for 8 years with = that throttle body (blue half moon) stuck out on the end without any = additional support and still OK. Here is the website for the rod I used successfully - before trying = this rod, I probably had 10 lbs or various rods that I never had any = luck with, but this worked. http://www.aluminumrepair.com/ Ed -------------------------------------------------- From: "Charlie England" Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2013 3:41 PM To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" Subject: [FlyRotary] Intake progress >=20 > Now that everyone's awake again, I thought I'd send a pic of my = intake=20 > progress (RV-7 Renesis with James Lyc cowl). I played with a couple = of=20 > different materials for the bell mouths. I tried gluing up some 1/4" = > plexi from an old windshield, but used super glue instead of proper=20 > plexi cement (which I wasn't able to find locally in a hurry). The = 1st=20 > try popped apart on the lathe; the 2nd turned out ok. Next effort = was=20 > with 3/4" MDF (medium density fiberboard). That went well, until I = put a=20 > little too much side pressure on the ring (homemade cutting tool) = after=20 > undercutting the center section. Overall tube lengths will be ~11 = 3/4"=20 > block surface to bell ends. The plenum is *much* bigger than most = tuning=20 > sites recommend. I figure that I can experiment with plenum size by = just=20 > stuffing it with rigid foam to take up some volume, if needed. Going = the=20 > other way wouldn't be so easy. :-) >=20 > Since I don't have Mark's TIG skills, I thought I'd ask what others = have=20 > used in joining thin wall tubing to 1/4" aluminum plate. Aluminum=20 > brazing rod? High temp epoxy? JB weld? I do intend to add bracing = from=20 > the plate to the plenum assembly to take some of the cantilever &=20 > vibration stress off the tubes. >=20 > I'm using this length and concept because Tracy has had great luck = with=20 > both HP & BSFC on his Renesis with a similar configuration. However, = I'm=20 > curious about how others have adapted the common Helmholtz intake = tuning=20 > formulas to the rotary. Would anyone care to 'show their (math) = work'?=20 > Renesis users would be better for me, but any calcs would do. When I = > tried to adapt the common formulas to a rotary, I was getting=20 > 'interesting' results, so I'd like to know if I got lost somewhere = while=20 > trying to plug rotary 'valve' timing into the formulas. >=20 > Charlie > (Sorry for the sideways iphone pic; I guess you can pretend that = you're=20 > looking down on it...) > > -- > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > Archive and UnSub: = http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html > > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 2013.0.2899 / Virus Database: 2639/6110 - Release Date: = 02/17/13 -- Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub: = http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2013.0.2899 / Virus Database: 2639/6110 - Release Date: = 02/17/13 ------=_NextPart_000_0037_01CE0DB1.01710680 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Never had it on a dyno, Steve, but based on fuel = flow and=20 performance, I see 17.0 17.5 GPH WOT at take off (6000 rpm) which would = equate=20 to roughly 175HP on a 70-90 F day.  On a cold day <50F I see = 19-20 gph=20 (at 6100-6200 RPM) WOT on Take off which would give approx 190 = HP -=20 increase in performance is quite evident on the cold days.
 
But, again no dyno time or data.  But, when = I went=20 from my old 2.17 gearbox and 67/72 prop to the 2.85 and 74/88 prop - = that really=20 is what changed the performance dramatically - particularly for take off = and=20 climbout, surprisingly top speed also increased around 4-6MPH = TAS. =20 First take off took work to keep it on the runway (I'm glad Tracy warned = me) with all the right rudder I had.  I have since learned in = my RV-6a=20 that letting it get to around 40 mph before apply full throttle makes = take off=20 less exciting {:>)
 
 
Ed

Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2013 6:17 PM
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Intake progress

Ed=20
What do you guestimate your HP to be and at what RPM?

Cheers

Steve Izett
On 18/02/2013, at 7:03 AM, Ed Anderson wrote:
Looks good, Charlie

No welder myself, however when it came = time to=20 attach  0.049 wall aluminum tubing to the cast aluminum stock = manifold=20 (see photo attached), I found a brazing rod for aluminum that worked=20 great. 

Used a butane torch (more BTU/min the better) to = first=20 heat the casting (your plate would be easier) and then brought the = flame close=20 to the tubing - but not playing on the tubing.  touched the = brazing rod=20 to the intersection and it did a great job.  Been flying for 8 = years with=20 that throttle body (blue half moon) stuck out on the end without any=20 additional support and still OK.

Here is the website for the = rod I used=20 successfully - before trying this rod, I probably had 10 lbs or = various rods=20 that I never had any luck with, but this worked.


http://www.aluminumrepair.com/
 

Ed

---------------------------------------= -----------
From:=20 "Charlie England" <ceengland7@gmail.com>
Sent= :=20 Sunday, February 17, 2013 3:41 PM
To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" = <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Subject:=20 [FlyRotary] Intake progress

>
> Now that everyone's = awake=20 again, I thought I'd send a pic of my intake
> progress (RV-7 = Renesis=20 with James Lyc cowl). I played with a couple of
> different = materials=20 for the bell mouths. I tried gluing up some 1/4"
> plexi from = an old=20 windshield, but used super glue instead of proper
> plexi = cement (which=20 I wasn't able to find locally in a hurry). The 1st
> try popped = apart=20 on the lathe; the 2nd turned out ok. Next effort was
> with = 3/4" MDF=20 (medium density fiberboard). That went well, until I put a
> = little too=20 much side pressure on the ring (homemade cutting tool) after
>=20 undercutting the center section. Overall tube lengths will be ~11 3/4" =
> block surface to bell ends. The plenum is *much* bigger than = most=20 tuning
> sites recommend. I figure that I can experiment with = plenum=20 size by just
> stuffing it with rigid foam to take up some = volume, if=20 needed. Going the
> other way wouldn't be so easy. :-)
> =
>=20 Since I don't have Mark's TIG skills, I thought I'd ask what others = have=20
> used in joining thin wall tubing to 1/4" aluminum plate. = Aluminum=20
> brazing rod? High temp epoxy? JB weld? I do intend to add = bracing=20 from
> the plate to the plenum assembly to take some of the = cantilever=20 &
> vibration stress off the tubes.
>
> I'm = using this=20 length and concept because Tracy has had great luck with
> both = HP=20 & BSFC on his Renesis with a similar configuration. However, I'm =
>=20 curious about how others have adapted the common Helmholtz intake = tuning=20
> formulas to the rotary. Would anyone care to 'show their = (math)=20 work'?
> Renesis users would be better for me, but any calcs = would do.=20 When I
> tried to adapt the common formulas to a rotary, I was = getting=20
> 'interesting' results, so I'd like to know if I got lost = somewhere=20 while
> trying to plug rotary 'valve' timing into the = formulas.
>=20
> Charlie
> (Sorry for the sideways iphone pic; I guess = you can=20 pretend that you're
> looking down on=20 it...)
>



> --
> Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
> = Archive=20 and UnSub:   http:= //mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html
>

=

>=20 -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - = www.avg.com
> Version: = 2013.0.2899 / Virus=20 Database: 2639/6110 - Release Date:=20 02/17/13
<Back6th.jpg>--
Homepage: =  http://www.flyrotary.com/
Archi= ve and=20 UnSub:   http:= //mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html

No virus found in this=20 message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2013.0.2899 / = Virus=20 Database: 2639/6110 - Release Date: 02/17/13

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