X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from imr-da04.mx.aol.com ([205.188.105.146] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0.1) with ESMTP id 6011472 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 14 Jan 2013 11:55:24 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=205.188.105.146; envelope-from=ARGOLDMAN@aol.com Received: from mtaomg-da03.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtaomg-da03.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.51.139]) by imr-da04.mx.aol.com (Outbound Mail Relay) with ESMTP id E94181C00005B for ; Mon, 14 Jan 2013 11:54:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from core-dse003a.r1000.mail.aol.com (core-dse003.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.29.227.201]) by mtaomg-da03.r1000.mx.aol.com (OMAG/Core Interface) with ESMTP id A9FF0E00008E for ; Mon, 14 Jan 2013 11:54:49 -0500 (EST) From: ARGOLDMAN@aol.com Full-name: ARGOLDMAN Message-ID: <1730e.3b9bafaa.3e259258@aol.com> Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2013 11:54:49 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Hiccup To: flyrotary@lancaironline.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_1730e.3b9bafaa.3e259258_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 9.7 sub 56 X-Originating-IP: [24.14.64.174] x-aol-global-disposition: G DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mx.aol.com; s=20121107; t=1358182489; bh=5orXsLbaxPfAoZY0qTZKBxGKx0K/bZtwbI63ZUVPRn8=; h=From:To:Subject:Message-ID:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=xdkxtppAZYIx7od6kOU3NlZO90xZISG2GaHMJ+XLjAjaMnZ3V8NiIQVQiTC6mo4+C Wj6xl+rfwnY/FuQipNpeHlV087jdYNnqWeK+iLJrCPhJuIbvPt3eOzFpoaq9n+jfFf OXY8Sx7xfkCA5IU8BMwK3OiPPTzhBvyEt6fbkREU= X-AOL-SCOLL-SCORE: 0:2:450010112:93952408 X-AOL-SCOLL-URL_COUNT: 0 x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d338b50f4385917b1 --part1_1730e.3b9bafaa.3e259258_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Just finished talking with the people at Magnicore. Here's the Skinny, as I interpret it, your mileage may very. The difference between the 8.5 mm and the 10 mm is only in the amount of insulation around the core. The cores are the same. They recommend the 10s for installations with high heat. There is a little more dielectric (insulation capacity) but they don't seem to think that that capacity is significant. The 10s are less flexible and about 40% more in cost. Their estimate, for the rotary (4 wires) Length approx 20" each (of course you need to give them exact specs from top of the igniter to top of the plug as well as angle of the connectors that you want) is approximately $100.00 for 8.5 and $140 for 10mm. Delivery is only a couple of days. (fitted connectors are part of the deal. Both the 8.5 and the 10 are available in any color you want, as long as it is RED. Since the routing of the wires is relatively straight line and I will be making my own harness holders, I am tempted to do the 10s, however I think that the 8.5s would be OK also. Badly quoted, from memory, a poem by ee cummings "Some think that the world will end in fire, some think it will end in ice, from what i have tasted of desire i hold with those who favor fire but if i had to perish twice i also think that ice is nice and would suffice" Choices choices. Rich In a message dated 1/13/2013 7:08:50 P.M. Central Standard Time, bbradburry@bellsouth.net writes: But good to know. Thanks! Bill B ____________________________________ From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Rob Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 7:30 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Hiccup Bill, Something else to consider is that inductive core wires are kind of delecate inside and that forcing them into a wire loom that is not made for them can damage the delicate coil of wire inside. All these detail are anoying. Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: _Bill Bradburry_ (mailto:bbradburry@bellsouth.net) To: _Rotary motors in aircraft_ (mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net) Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 5:30 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Hiccup Kelly, I was lucky enough to mount the coils just the right distance from the plugs and I am now using the stock RX-8 wires, so if they fit the RX-8, they will fit my installation. Thanks, Ed. I was going to go with the 8.5 if no one came up with a reason for the thicker ones. The stock wires are 7mm, and it is pretty hard to get them into the wire loom, so I will probably need to get a larger loom for either one. I will try it first. Bill B ____________________________________ From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Kelly Troyer Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 3:34 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Hiccup Bill, One more consideration..............The Magnacore wires for the Stock RX8 Renesis may not be the proper length for your installation...........Probably you will need a custom set made if you have not already figured that out !!.............<:) Kelly Troyer On Sun, Jan 13, 2013 at 1:06 PM, Ed Anderson <_eanderson@carolina.rr.com_ (mailto:eanderson@carolina.rr.com) > wrote: Bill, I have the 8.5mm wires - seems like there was a reason (other than price, but too long ago to remember - perhaps I could only get different color boots on the 8.5) Ed From: _Bill Bradburry_ (mailto:bbradburry@bellsouth.net) Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 12:47 PM To: _Rotary motors in aircraft_ (mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net) Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Hiccup Ed and John, Do you guys have the 8.5 or the 10 MM thickness? Does it matter? Bill B ____________________________________ From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:_flyrotary@lancaironline.net_ (mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net) ] On Behalf Of Ed Anderson Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 7:14 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Hiccup I agree with, John. I had Magnacore make custom wires for my rotary - cost me around $45 back then. Have flow for close to 10 years now with the wires with no problem. I also had the boots in two different colors, one color for leading and one for trailing. Ed From: _John Slade_ (mailto:jslade@canardaviation.com) Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 7:31 PM To: _Rotary motors in aircraft_ (mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net) Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Hiccup I'd recommend paying the $85. My magnacore custom made plug leads haven't given me a problem in 8 years. Any way you can eliminate one possible cause is worth it. One nice thing about Magnacore is that they will make them to specified length with pre-installed connectors. I got mine in 2 colors. Red for leading, Black for trailing. On 1/12/2013 3:18 PM, Bill Bradburry wrote: The Magnacore wires are fairly pricey, about $85 for the RX-8. Not that I am cheap or anything, but does anyone have a more economical source?? Bill B ____________________________________ From: Rotary motors in aircraft [_mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net_ (mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net) ] On Behalf Of Steven W. Boese Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 1:30 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Hiccup I had an aftermarket tachometer on my engine test stand that would often read twice the actual rpm. The engine stand was set up so that the power to each of the four ignition coils could be controlled independently. The spark plug wires were Mazda OEM. The behavior of the tach would sometimes be affected by the combination of ignition coils that were active. In the course of troubleshooting, it was found that the tach would consistently read twice the actual RPM when its input wire was completely disconnected at the tach. It was concluded that the tach was responding to signals emitted by the spark plug wires and the doubled rpm indication was due to triggering by the ignition signals from both rotors. Replacing the Mazda spark plug wires with Magnecore wires from the installation in my plane cured the tach errors. Now, however, checking the ignition timing with an inductive timing light pickup on these wires was difficult whereas it was not a problem with the original wires. It should be noted that the EC2 on the engine stand never gave any indication of having problems when either set of spark plug wires was installed in spite of being physically located closer to the coils and spark plug wires relative to the tach. Steve Boese RV6A, 1986 13B NA, RD1A, EC2 ____________________________________ From: Rotary motors in aircraft [_flyrotary@lancaironline.net_ (mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net) ] on behalf of Dale_R [_dale.rog@gmail.com_ (mailto:dale.rog@gmail.com) ] Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 8:04 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Hiccup Dunno how many people here remember when spark wire was just that: wire. But it was electrically noisy. So it got replaced by carbon impregnated fabric, which has rather high resistance (a cheap way to damp the "noise"). Another way to suppress the "noise" is to wrap the wire (many turns, closely spaced) around an insulating core, which creates an inductive impedance, which accomplishes the same goal but readily passes spark current. AFAIK, "MAGNECORE" was the first to explore this method, but several companies offer a similar product now. According to some sources, the core material can make a large difference in the inductive effectiveness. Therefore, I'd recommend MAGNECORE. -- Best Regards, Dale_R (who has no financial interest in Magnecore) Cozy MKIV #497 On 1/12/2013 7:21 AM, Bill Bradburry wrote: Anybody have a recommendation for ignition wires for the Renesis? I have the original Mazda wires. I checked them out yesterday and they seemed fine, but I am still considering replacing them to see if it helps. Bill B --part1_1730e.3b9bafaa.3e259258_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Just finished talking with the people at Magnicore.
 
Here's the Skinny, as I interpret it, your mileage may very.
 
The difference between the 8.5 mm and the 10 mm is only in the amount = of=20 insulation around the core. The cores are the same. They recommend the 10s = for=20 installations with high heat. There is a little more dielectric (insulation= =20 capacity) but they don't seem to think that that capacity is significant.
 
The 10s are less flexible and  about 40% more in cost.
 
Their estimate, for the rotary (4 wires) Length approx 20" each (of co= urse=20 you need to give them exact specs from top of the igniter to top of the plu= g as=20 well as angle of the connectors that you want) is approximately $100.00 for= 8.5=20 and $140 for 10mm. Delivery is only a couple of days. (fitted connectors ar= e=20 part of the deal.
 
Both the 8.5 and the 10 are available in any color you want, as long a= s it=20 is RED.
 
Since the routing of the wires is relatively straight line and I will = be=20 making my own harness holders, I am tempted to do the 10s, however I think = that=20 the 8.5s would be OK also.
 
Badly quoted, from memory, a poem by ee cummings
 
"Some think that the world will end in fire, some think it will end in= ice,=20 from what i have tasted of desire i hold with those who favor fire but if i= had=20 to perish twice i also think that ice is nice and would suffice"
 
Choices choices.
 
Rich
 
In a message dated 1/13/2013 7:08:50 P.M. Central Standard Time,=20 bbradburry@bellsouth.net writes:
=

But good to=20 know.  Thanks!

 

Bill=20 B

 

From:=20 Rotary motors in aircraft=20 [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On=20 Behalf Of Rob
Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 7:3= 0=20 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re:=20 Hiccup

 

Bill,

Something else to consider= =20 is that  inductive core wires are kind of delecate inside and t= hat=20 forcing them into a wire loom that is not made for them can damage t= he=20 delicate coil of wire inside. All these detail are=20 anoying.

Robert

----- Original Message --= ---=20

From:<= /SPAN> Bill Bradburry=20

To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20

Sent:<= /SPAN> Sunday,=20 January 13, 2013 5:30 PM

Subjec= t:=20 [FlyRotary] Re: Hiccup

 

Kelly,<= /o:p>

 <= /o:p>

I was lucky = enough=20 to mount the coils just the right distance from the plugs and I am now = using=20 the stock RX-8 wires, so if they fit the RX-8, they will fit my=20 installation.

 <= /o:p>

Thanks, Ed.&= nbsp; I=20 was going to go with the 8.5 if no one came up with a reason for the th= icker=20 ones.  The stock wires are 7mm, and it is pretty hard to get them = into=20 the wire loom, so I will probably need to get a larger loom for either= =20 one.  I will try it first.

 <= /o:p>

Bill=20 B

 <= /o:p>

From:= =20 Rotary motors in aircraft= =20 [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On=20 Behalf Of Kelly Troyer
Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 3= :34=20 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re:=20 Hiccup

 

 Bill,

   One more consideration..........= ....The=20 Magnacore wires for the Stock RX8 Renesis may not=20 be

the proper length for your=20 installation...........Probably you will need a custom set made if you= =20 have

not already figured that out=20 !!.............<:)

 

Kelly=20 Troyer

On Sun, Jan 13, 2013 at 1:06 PM, Ed Anderson = <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>=20 wrote:

Bill, I have the 8.5mm wi= res -=20 seems like there was a reason (other than price, but too long ago to=20 remember - perhaps I could only get different color boots on the=20 8.5)

 

Ed

 

 

 =

From:= Bill Bradburry

Sent:= =20 Sunday, January 13, 2013 12:47 PM

To: Rotary moto= rs in=20 aircraft

Subje= ct:=20 [FlyRotary] Re:=20 Hiccup

 

Ed and=20 John,

 

Do you guys = have=20 the 8.5 or the 10 MM thickness?  Does it=20 matter?

 

Bill=20 B

 

From:= =20 Rotary motors in aircraft= =20 [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Ed Anderson
<= SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 7= :14=20 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re:=20 Hiccup

 =

I agree wit= h,=20 John.  I had Magnacore make custom wires for my rotary - cost me a= round=20 $45 back then.  Have flow for close to 10 years now with the wires= with=20 no problem.    I also had the boots in two different col= ors,=20 one color for leading and one for trailing. =20

 =

Ed

 

From: John Slade=20

Sent:=20 Saturday, January 12, 2013 7:31 PM

To: Rotary moto= rs in=20 aircraft

Subject:=20 [FlyRotary] Re: Hiccup

 =

I'd recommend paying the $85.&n= bsp; My=20 magnacore custom made plug leads haven't given me a problem in 8=20 years.
Any way you can eliminate one possible cause is worth it. One= nice=20 thing about Magnacore is that they will make them to specified length w= ith=20 pre-installed connectors. I got mine in 2 colors. Red for leading, Blac= k for=20 trailing.

On 1/12/2013 3:18 PM, Bill= =20 Bradburry wrote:

The Magnac= ore=20 wires are fairly pricey, about $85 for the RX-8.  Not that I am = cheap=20 or anything, but does anyone have a more economical=20 source??

 

Bill B=20

 

From:=20 Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Steven W.=20 Boese
Sent: Saturd= ay,=20 January 12, 2013 1:30 PM
To: Rotary=20 motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re:=20 Hiccup

 

I had an= =20 aftermarket tachometer on my engine test stand that would often read = twice=20 the actual rpm.  The engine stand was set up so that the power t= o=20 each of the four ignition coils could be controlled independently.&nb= sp;=20 The spark plug wires were Mazda OEM.  The behavior of the t= ach=20 would sometimes be affected by the combination of ignition coils that= were=20 active.  In the course of troubleshooting, it was found that=20 the tach would consistently read twice the actual RPM when its i= nput=20 wire was completely disconnected at the tach.  It was concluded = that=20 the tach was responding to signals emitted by the spark plug wir= es=20 and the doubled rpm indication was due to triggering by the= =20 ignition signals from both rotors.  Replacing the Mazda spark pl= ug=20 wires with Magnecore wires from the installation in my plane cur= ed=20 the tach errors.  Now, however, checking the ignition= =20 timing with an inductive timing light pickup on these wires was= =20 difficult whereas it was not a problem with the original=20 wires.

 

It shoul= d be=20 noted that the EC2 on the engine stand never gave any indication= =20 of having problems when either set of spark plug wires was insta= lled=20 in spite of being physically located closer to the coils and spark pl= ug=20 wires relative to the tach.

 

Steve=20 Boese

RV6A,=20 1986 13B NA, RD1A, EC2

<= /DIV>

 = =20

From:=20 Rotary motors in aircraft [flyrotary@lancaironline.net] on behalf of Dale_R = [dale.rog@gmail.com]
Sent: Saturday, January 12, 20= 13 8:04=20 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re:=20 Hiccup

Dunno how many people here re= member=20 when spark wire was just that: wire.  But it was electrically=20 noisy.  So it got replaced by carbon impregnated fabric, which h= as=20 rather high resistance (a cheap way to damp the "noise").

Anot= her=20 way to suppress the "noise" is to wrap the wire (many turns, closely= =20 spaced) around an insulating core, which creates an inductive impedan= ce,=20 which accomplishes the same goal but readily passes spark current.&nb= sp;=20 AFAIK, "MAGNECORE" was the first to explore this method, but several= =20 companies offer a similar product now.  According to some source= s,=20 the core material can make a large difference in the inductive=20 effectiveness.  Therefore, I'd recommend=20
MAGNECORE.
 

-- 
Bes=
t Regards,
Dale_R (=
who has no financial interest in Magnecore)
<= PRE>Cozy MKIV #497




On 1/12/2013 7:21= AM,=20 Bill Bradburry=20 wrote:

Anybody = have a=20 recommendation for ignition wires for the Renesis?  I have the= =20 original Mazda wires.  I checked them out yesterday and they s= eemed=20 fine, but I am still considering replacing them to see if it=20 helps.

 

Bill=20 B

 

 

 



=

 

 

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