X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from imr-ma06.mx.aol.com ([64.12.78.142] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0c1) with ESMTP id 5697483 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Tue, 07 Aug 2012 14:10:35 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=64.12.78.142; envelope-from=ARGOLDMAN@aol.com Received: from mtaomg-da04.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtaomg-da04.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.51.140]) by imr-ma06.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id q77I9mRx025188 for ; Tue, 7 Aug 2012 14:09:48 -0400 Received: from core-dsd003a.r1000.mail.aol.com (core-dsd003.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.29.253.137]) by mtaomg-da04.r1000.mx.aol.com (OMAG/Core Interface) with ESMTP id 63E05E000089 for ; Tue, 7 Aug 2012 14:09:48 -0400 (EDT) From: ARGOLDMAN@aol.com Message-ID: <198e3.363330b8.3d52b3eb@aol.com> Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2012 14:09:47 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Fuel Filters. Was: Rotary Forced Landing To: flyrotary@lancaironline.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_198e3.363330b8.3d52b3eb_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 9.6 sub 168 X-Originating-IP: [24.14.64.174] x-aol-global-disposition: G DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mx.aol.com; s=20110426; t=1344362988; bh=85oUhYK6mxUmzpYXC12pqIRPXrVH+wiwPVxDHRqfAVs=; h=From:To:Subject:Message-ID:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=p6CUz8aXnrs0uzSYakFJlYE5jLLaSvioZmPn7bq4BxY+V3m55QBYy6RXioUZeeoc2 eNnvRCWUOuo9qRxN7aREckqIzIPIZlIbK2NN2GphM8gu5SF1R4oY5ZATvqiJxdiVzJ Z9/TtDdO3oVSESVu1De0DDsfQkLehB45WI9nZC54= X-AOL-SCOLL-SCORE: 1:2:492058336:93952408 X-AOL-SCOLL-URL_COUNT: 2 x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d338c502159ec5513 --part1_198e3.363330b8.3d52b3eb_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Of course, Al, I am missing the part where the hopped up autophile jumps on the highway with his souped up car, steps on the small pedal and cruises at 75%power, with no letup for say-- 4 hours, to be followed by a similar situation over and over again. The flow for a 600HP engine would be considered, only if it were run under the above circumstances. Most cars, unless long distance racers, many of which don't finish (and one wonders if they, indeed use these types of filters,) independent of their increased HP function at much much reduced HP and fuel burn most of their lives (thus the old saw about not using an automotive engine for an airplane). Aircraft engines, or engines used on aircraft have different thirst needs. Not, IMNSHO noise, but possible reality. Of course the vehicles with the fuel filters "totally unnecessary to remove" are not designed to have the longevity nor the fuel burn of our aircraft. Assume the life of an aircraft to be 20 years (although they are considerably longer) Consider an average fuel burn of 10GPH Consider flying 100H per year Consider average auto at 20 MPG The aircraft at 20 years will have consumed 20,000 gal of the smelly stuff. A similar flow in the auto would equate to 400,000 miles. Where the aircraft is still relatively "new" it is only very rarely that an auto makes that kind of mileage and is typically shredded long before that. Is it possible that these self-crap-shedding filters have, for aviation purposes, a limited life span, which, since blind, can not be evaluated, except at failure? The benefit of being able to look at a filter element is the ability to take some recourse if problems pop up. Inability to inspect stops one from not knowing (although, for some, there is solace in that). "If I can't see it, it must not be there." What comes to mind is the situation with Chris Barber in which, for whatever reason chunks (sheets) of epoxy-stuff were flaking into his fuel tanks. I don't know how Chris determined this, but lets, for the sake of conversation, this situation was not observable through the filler neck (perhaps happening in a baffled area removed-- there are at least 1 or 2, can't remember, however, the fuel pickup is visually isolated from the filler neck area, and the flakes plugged the filter due to their shape and size, he, after solving his cooling problems might have had an engine failure at 50' on landing after a 5 hr cross country. Of course, when he arrived back to Terra Firma, short of the runway, hopefully in one piece, the un -seeable filter would have "cleaned" itself, and the engine failure would have been, probably, relegated to something else. Rich In a message dated 8/7/2012 10:24:47 A.M. Central Daylight Time, alwick@juno.com writes: wrote: Yea, mine is an Earls cleanable high pressure with maybe 10 sq cm worth of area. Will look into the Peterson. Thanks Tracy. Dave Leonard On Sun, Aug 5, 2012 at 10:48 AM, Tracy <_rwstracy@gmail.com_ (mailto:rwstracy@gmail.com) > wrote: Al probably means the filter that's on factory in-tank pumps. OK, but very hard to implement on RV wet-wing tanks. I used a gascolator for low side filter on my -4. Worked OK and when it clogged, switching on the backup pump with main pump caused the screen disk to collapse and let fuel bypass it. which is better than no fuel at all but not an ideal solution. On the -8 i used a cleanable Peterson filter with TONS of filter area, works great. That was a replacement for the Summit Racing fuel filter with a filter element disk the size of a nickel. It clogged up in about about 5 hours of flight. Tracy Sent from my iPad On Aug 5, 2012, at 10:18 AM, David Leonard <_wdleonard@gmail.com_ (mailto:wdleonard@gmail.com) > wrote: Yes, it was the high side filter. I don't have any low side filters. Would be interested in a source for the self-cleaning fool-proof low side filters that Al mentions. -- David Leonard Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY _http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net_ (http://n4vy.rotaryroster.net/) _http://RotaryRoster.net_ (http://rotaryroster.net/) On Sun, Aug 5, 2012 at 6:34 AM, Tracy <_rwstracy@gmail.com_ (mailto:rwstracy@gmail.com) > wrote: I assume Al is referring to the pump intake side filter. So for the record, was it the inlet side or the high pressure side filter that clogged? ( Both are needed ) >From the symptoms I'm guessing high side but not sure. BTW, nice job! Tracy Sent from my iPad On Aug 4, 2012, at 3:53 PM, "Al Wick" <_alwick@juno.com_ (mailto:alwick@juno.com) > wrote: As long as your are rebuilding, tremendous safety improvement by using same fuel filter method that all cars use. No matter how much foreign material you throw at it, it can't clog. It minimizes pressure drop, so lower risk of vapor lock. Self cleaning filter. Self priming pumps. -Al Wick Cozy IV powered by RDM Subaru 3.0R. Expert at failure prevention methods, N9032U 240+ hours from Portland, Oregon Glass panel design, Subaru install, Prop construct, Risk assessment info: _http://www.ez.org/pages/alwick/index.htm_ (http://www.ez.org/pages/alwick/index.htm) ----- Original Message ----- From: _Jeff Whaley_ (mailto:jwhaley@datacast.com) To: _Rotary motors in aircraft_ (mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net) Sent: Saturday, August 04, 2012 1:38 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Rotary Forced Landing Dave, having gone through recently what you just experienced I would like to say GOOD JOB on getting down safely and with such little damage. Anyway at 1500 AGL there isn't a lot of time ... obviously you made the right choices. Jeff (Rebuilding my Ride) From: David Leonard <_wdleonard@gmail.com_ (mailto:wdleonard@gmail.com) > Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Fw: Fw: [FlyRotary] Rotary Forced Landing Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2012 06:18:47 -0700 To: Rotary motors in aircraft <_flyrotary@lancaironline.net_ (mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net) > (http://lancaironline.net:81/Lists/flyrotary/Message/58662-H.txt) (http://lancaironline.net:81/Lists/flyrotary/Message/58662-P.txt) Sigh.. Yup, that was me. I have been meaning to fess up. We were at about 1500 agl when the fuses blew on my fuel pumps. I was in a close formation of 40 aircraft at the time too. I think I got some bad MOGAS somewhere in Iowa as I did notice my fuel return flow creep downward but didn't think it was a big problem. On the incident flight, a one hour formation flight from SQI for a mass arrival at OSH, the return fuel flow drifted down to zero. I actually though it was a sensor problem. I didn't have the ability to give it a lot of attention because we were in a loose formation. Soon after we pulled it together for a tight formation power switched off. I tried to find a road, but quickly ran out of options and put it down in a bean field. With the beans hitting the flaps it brought me to a stop in about 200ft, just before I would have gone into the full grown corn. As mentioned, wheel pants broke in half but no other damage besides pulling bean leaves out of every nook and cranny. The farmers were very nice, and the stories are true... they have attractive daughters. They were out there barefoot in their Sunday best enjoying the excitement. Helped me clean the fuel filter and replace the fuses. Within a couple of hours I was able to take off from one of their driveways as they all waived good bye (but strangely, no one took me up on my offer for a ride). Landed at OSH just before dark to a reserved parking space and a very warm reception from the formation group and friends. Great support from everyone all around, though I am trying to avoid the obvious new call signs they are trying to give me. -- David Leonard This message, and the documents attached hereto, is intended only for the addressee and may contain privileged or confidential information. Any unauthorized disclosure is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify us immediately so that we may correct our internal records. Please then delete the original message. Thank you. -- David Leonard Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY _http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net_ (http://n4vy.rotaryroster.net/) _http://RotaryRoster.net_ (http://rotaryroster.net/) -- David Leonard Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY _http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net_ (http://n4vy.rotaryroster.net/) _http://RotaryRoster.net_ (http://rotaryroster.net/) --part1_198e3.363330b8.3d52b3eb_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Of course, Al,
 
I am missing the part where the hopped up autophile jumps on the highw= ay=20 with his souped up car, steps on the small pedal and cruises at 75%power, w= ith=20 no letup for say-- 4 hours, to be followed by a similar situation over and = over=20 again.
 
The flow for a 600HP engine would be considered, only if it were run u= nder=20 the above circumstances.
 
Most cars, unless long distance racers, many of which don't finish (an= d one=20 wonders if they, indeed use these types of filters,) independent of their= =20 increased HP function at much much reduced HP and fuel burn most of their l= ives=20 (thus the old saw about not using an automotive engine for an airplane).=20 Aircraft engines, or engines used on aircraft have different thirst needs. = Not,=20 IMNSHO noise, but possible reality.
 
Of course the vehicles with the fuel filters "totally unnecessary to remove" are not designed to= have=20 the longevity nor the fuel burn of our aircraft.
 
Assume the life of an aircraft= to be 20=20 years (although they are considerably longer)
Consider an average fuel burn = of=20 10GPH
Consider flying 100H per=20 year
Consider average auto at 20=20 MPG
 
The aircraft at 20 years will = have=20 consumed 20,000 gal of the smelly stuff.
A similar flow in the auto wou= ld equate=20 to 400,000 miles.
 
Where the aircraft is still re= latively=20 "new" it is only very rarely that an auto makes that kind of mileage and is= =20 typically shredded long before that. Is it possible that these=20 self-crap-shedding filters have, for aviation purposes, a limited life span= ,=20 which, since blind, can not be evaluated, except at failure?
 
The benefit of being able to l= ook at a=20 filter element is the ability to take some recourse if problems pop up.=20 Inability to inspect stops one from not knowing (although, for some, there = is=20 solace in that). "If I can't see it, it must not be there."
 
What comes to mind is the situ= ation=20 with Chris Barber in which, for whatever reason chunks (sheets) of epoxy-st= uff=20 were flaking into his fuel tanks. I don't know how Chris determined this, b= ut=20 lets, for the sake of conversation, this situation was not observable throu= gh=20 the filler neck (perhaps happening in a baffled area removed-- there are at= =20 least 1 or 2, can't remember, however, the fuel pickup is visually isolated= from=20 the filler neck area, and the flakes plugged the filter due to their shape = and=20 size, he, after solving his cooling problems might have had an engine failu= re at=20 50' on landing after a 5 hr cross country. Of course, when he arrived back = to=20 Terra Firma, short of the runway, hopefully in one piece, the un -seeable f= ilter=20 would have "cleaned" itself, and the engine failure would have been, probab= ly,=20 relegated to something else.
Rich
 
In a message dated 8/7/2012 10:24:47 A.M. Central Daylight Time,=20 alwick@juno.com writes:
=
<not taken into account is that the fuel flow of an aircraft is= =20 significantly greater than that of a car
 
Not true in this modern age.= 30 years=20 ago would have been true.
 
They do take high flow&= nbsp;into=20 consideration. They design the systems to handle the extremes. When we do= =20 qualification testing we measure how close we are to failure threshold. "= Holy=20 crap, if this guy has partially clogged filter similar to ones we find on= =20 Kentucky cars 15 years old. AND he is running at full throttle. AND he ha= s=20 replaced injectors with high flow ones..........no, he's still within the= =20 safety margin."
 
Have to admit, I don't know = the=20 details of Mazda fuel flow thresholds. But I do know Japanese=20 companies are expert at design optimization. They do measure how wel= l sys=20 will perform in unusual applications. We have what's called a "noise= =20 array" and test how well sys handles unusual situations outside of our=20 control. So high flow injectors would be in the noise array. As would fue= l=20 from "Bob's rusty tank".
 
Would flow for 600 hp engine= be=20 considered? No, not that extreme.
 
<filter/pump were removed inspected and cleaned, I personally wou= ld=20 feel much better about that installation.
 
Yes, I think a lot of people= are not=20 used to the concept of a design so robust that failures can't occur. In t= he=20 case of OEM fuel filtering, it's totally unnecessary to remove and inspec= t. If=20 curious, use one of those scopes to peer into tank. In this case, remove = and=20 inspect would increase risk. I love the irony.
 
-al
 
-al
----- Original Message -----
F= rom:=20 ARGOLDMAN@aol.com
To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20
Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2012 7= :39=20 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Fuel Fi= lters.=20 Was: Rotary Forced Landing

Al,
 
Of course, what is not taken into account by the auto guys is that= the=20 fuel flow of an aircraft is significantly greater than that of a car an= d=20 that old planes are still flying and don't have the opportunity to "pul= l=20 over to the side if the filter gets plugged totally or partially.
 
Now if, as part of a conditional inspection, the filter/pump were= =20 removed inspected and cleaned, I personally would feel much better abou= t=20 that installation.
 
Rich
 
In a message dated 8/6/2012 10:58:34 P.M. Central Daylight Time,= =20 alwick@juno.com writes:
Dave says:
<How does a filter "Self clean"?
 
I mentioned this a couple years ago. One of the guys called Bull= =20 Sh__. Well, not really, but what he did was most impressive. He went = to=20 local wrecking yard, bought two used coarse filters. They reside in t= he=20 fuel tank. I think he spent like $5 or so.
Then he puts it in bucket, no I think he has old aquarium. Attac= hed a=20 pump to it. Then got some dirt and debris from yard and poured it on.= As I=20 recall he could not get it to clog. But the self cleaning was obvious= when=20 he added a little wave action and vibration to it.
If you take this a little further, you can actually measure pump= flow=20 rate by timing how long it takes to fill jug. You can then look at ju= g=20 contents so see how fine it screens. You can add a simple altimeter a= nd=20 measure pressure drop on pump inlet. Less pressure drop means that va= por=20 lock risk is reduced. Tons of stuff you can measure that no one knows= .=20
I'd think you'd find it takes around 1 tsp to clog the tradition= al=20 aircraft filter...so planes crash. Yet it takes cups of dirt to clog = the=20 filter used by every single car manufacturer. Gigantic safety improve= ment.=20
 
<How DO the car manufacturers overcome eventual filter=20 clogging/saturation? Just by making it so dang <large it never rea= ches=20 that point?
 
I think they discovered that the larger the surface area, the le= ss=20 likely to clog. That's why they all have around 6 to 10 times more su= rface=20 exposed to wave action than the filters of yesteryear.
 
 
-al wick
----- Original Message -----
= From:=20 Dave
To: Rotary motors in aircra= ft=20
Sent: Monday, August 06, 201= 2 6:57=20 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Fue= l=20 Filters. Was: Rotary Forced Landing

For the ignorati among us, I must=20 ask.

How does a filter "Self clean"? How DO the car manufact= urers=20 overcome eventual filter clogging/saturation? Just by making it so = dang=20 large it never reaches that point?

Dave

On 8/6/2012 8= :48=20 AM, Al Wick wrote:
<how small of filtration do we need?
<size of a particle that will fit through the injector no= zzle=20 easily?
 
Excellent questions. You have one resource that stands WAY a= bove=20 others. What do the OEM vehicles use? They know precisely what th= e=20 optimum surface area is, optimum filtration size. Too fine, it cl= ogs=20 needlessly. Too coarse, you increase risk of injector clog. Too l= ittle=20 surface area, it won't last. They even take into consideration un= usual=20 needs, like people that operate at super high flow rates.
 
A few decades ago, cars would periodically suffer clogged=20 filters. Never happens any more because they have new tools to=20 optimize designs. For example, their course filter screen has aro= und=20 10 times more surface area than any airplane filter. Self=20 cleaning,  screen size optimized. So debris can't affect you= r=20 car. It's just brilliant.
 
I really worry about builders copying marginal fuel designs.= =20 Unaware of how close they are to the failure threshold. You can f= ly=20 for years with marginal design, tell everyone "works great for me= ".=20 Unaware you are promoting failure.
 
-al wick
 
----- Original Message ----- From:=20 Da= vid=20 Leonard
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Sent: Sunday, August 05,= 2012=20 1:35 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Fue= l=20 Filters. Was: Rotary Forced Landing

So my next question is how small of filtration d= o we=20 need?  ie, what is the size of a particle that will fit th= rough=20 the injector nozzle easily?

I was using the Earls sinter= ed=20 bronze element at 35microns, but I also could use the SS screen= =20 version at 85 mic.  The Peterson in line 600 series is MUC= H=20 more expensive and comes in 45, 60, and 100 micron SS=20 screens.

http://www.jegs.com/p/Peterson-Fluid-S= ystems/Peterson-600-Series-Fuel-Filters/1528539/10002/-1

 = =20 Those do have more surface area but will be a hassle for me to= =20 retrofit, and not sure they are worth 4x the price of the=20 earls.  Lots of other brands I have  not explored=20 yet.

I like the sintered bronze for strength and=20 durability.  Other opinions?

Dave Leonard

On Sun, Aug 5, 2012 at 12:42 PM, David= =20 Leonard <wdleonard@gmail.com> wro= te:
Yea, mine is an Earls cleanable high pressure= with=20 maybe 10 sq cm worth of area.  Will look into the=20 Peterson.  Thanks Tracy.

Dave Leonard

On Sun, Aug 5, 2012 at 10:48 AM, Tra= cy=20 <rwstracy@gmail.com>=20 wrote:
Al probably means the filter that's on factory in-tank= =20 pumps.  OK, but very hard to implement on RV wet-wing= =20 tanks.   I used a gascolator for low side filter on my= -4.=20  Worked OK and when it clogged,  switching on the= =20 backup pump with main pump caused the screen disk to collap= se=20 and let fuel bypass it.   which is better than no fuel= at=20 all but not an ideal solution.

On the -8 i used a cleanable  Peterson filter wit= h=20 TONS of filter area, works great.   That was a replace= ment=20 for the Summit Racing fuel filter with a filter element dis= k the=20 size of a nickel.  It clogged up in about about 5 hour= s of=20 flight.

Tracy

Sent from my iPad

On Aug 5, 2012, at 10:18 AM, David Leonard <wdleonard@gmail.com>=20 wrote:

Yes, it was the high side filter.  I don't have= any=20 low side filters.  Would be interested in a source f= or=20 the self-cleaning fool-proof low side filters that Al=20 mentions.

--
David Leonard

Turbo Rotary= RV-6=20 N4VY
http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net=
http://RotaryRoster.net
<= BR>
On Sun, Aug 5, 2012 at 6:34 AM, = Tracy=20 <rwstracy@gmail.com>=20 wrote:
I assume Al is referring to the pump intake side= =20  filter.    So for the record, was it th= e=20 inlet side or the high pressure side filter that clogge= d?=20  ( Both are needed ) >From the symptoms I'm gue= ssing=20 high side but not sure.

BTW,  nice job!

Tracy

Sent from my iPad

On Aug 4, 2012, at 3:53 PM, "Al Wick" <alwick@juno.co= m>=20 wrote:

As long as your are rebuilding, tremendous safet= y=20 improvement by using same fuel filter method that all= cars=20 use. No matter how much foreign material you thr= ow at=20 it, it can't clog. It minimizes pressure drop, s= o=20 lower risk of vapor lock. Self cleaning filter. Self= =20 priming pumps.
 
-Al Wick
Cozy IV powered by RDM Subaru 3.0R.= =20
Expert at failure prevention methods, N9032U 240+= =20 hours from Portland, Oregon
Glass panel design, Su= baru=20 install, Prop construct, Risk assessment info:
http://www.ez.org/pages/alwi= ck/index.htm
----- Original Mess= age=20 -----
= From:=20 Jeff Whaley
To: Rotary motors in aircraft<= /A>=20
Sent: Saturd= ay,=20 August 04, 2012 1:38 PM
Subject:=20 [FlyRotary] Re: Rotary Forced Landing

Dave, having gone through recently what you just= =20 experienced I would like to say GOOD JOB on getting= down=20 safely and with such little damage.  Anyway at= 1500=20 AGL there isn't a lot of time ... obviously you mad= e the=20 right choices.

Jeff

(Rebuilding my Ride)

 

From: David Leonard <wdleonard@gmail.co= m>
Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Fw: Fw: [FlyRotary] Rot= ary=20 Forced Landing
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2012 06:18:47 -0700
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancairo= nline.net>
<= BR>=20
Sigh..

Yup, that was me. I have been= =20 meaning to fess up. We were at about 1500 agl= when=20 the fuses blew on my fuel pumps. I was in a c= lose=20 formation of 40 aircraft at the time too. I t= hink=20 I got some bad MOGAS somewhere in Iowa as I d= id=20 notice my fuel return flow creep downward but= =20 didn't think it was a big problem.

On= the=20 incident flight, a one hour formation flight = from=20 SQI for a mass arrival at OSH, the return fue= l=20 flow drifted down to zero. I actually though = it=20 was a sensor problem. I didn't have the abili= ty to=20 give it a lot of attention because we were in= a=20 loose formation. Soon after we pulled it toge= ther=20 for a tight formation power switched off. I t= ried=20 to find a road, but quickly ran out of option= s and=20 put it down in a bean field. With the beans= =20 hitting the flaps it brought me to a stop in = about=20 200ft, just before I would have gone into the= full=20 grown corn. As mentioned, wheel pants broke i= n=20 half but no other damage besides pulling bean= =20 leaves out of every nook and cranny. The farm= ers=20 were very nice, and the stories are true... t= hey=20 have attractive daughters. They were out ther= e=20 barefoot in their Sunday best enjoying the=20 excitement. Helped me clean the fuel filter a= nd=20 replace the fuses. Within a couple of hours I= was=20 able to take off from one of their driveways = as=20 they all waived good bye (but strangely, no o= ne=20 took me up on my offer for a ride).

La= nded=20 at OSH just before dark to a reserved parking= =20 space and a very warm reception from the form= ation=20 group and friends. Great support from everyon= e all=20 around, though I am trying to avoid the obvio= us=20 new call signs they are trying to give=20 me.

--
David=20 Leonard
This mes= sage,=20 and the documents attached hereto, is intended only= for=20 the addressee and may contain privileged or confide= ntial=20 information. Any unauthorized disclosure is strictl= y=20 prohibited. If you have received this message in er= ror,=20 please notify us immediately so that we may correct= our=20 internal records. Please then delete the original= =20 message. Thank you.=20




--
David Leonard

Turbo Rotary RV-6= =20 N4VY
http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net
= http://RotaryRoster.net


--
David Leonard

Turbo Rotary RV-6= =20 N4VY
http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net
http://RotaryRoster.net

 --part1_198e3.363330b8.3d52b3eb_boundary--