X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from qmta12.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.27.227] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4.4) with ESMTP id 5507131 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Wed, 25 Apr 2012 19:56:17 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=76.96.27.227; envelope-from=hoursaway1@comcast.net Received: from omta14.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.30.60]) by qmta12.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id 2PnQ1j0011HpZEsACPvhGy; Wed, 25 Apr 2012 23:55:41 +0000 Received: from sz0081.ev.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.26.137]) by omta14.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id 2Pvh1j00P2xV6SL8aPvhX9; Wed, 25 Apr 2012 23:55:41 +0000 Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2012 23:55:39 +0000 (UTC) From: hoursaway1@comcast.net To: Rotary motors in aircraft Message-ID: <169499694.1429071.1335398139213.JavaMail.root@sz0081a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Me Too! Was : [FlyRotary] Re: N774CG, RV-10 20B first flight MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_1429070_1682246756.1335398139158" X-Originating-IP: [71.206.108.115] X-Mailer: Zimbra 6.0.13_GA_2944 (ZimbraWebClient - IE8 (Win)/6.0.13_GA_2944) ------=_Part_1429070_1682246756.1335398139158 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ed makes a great point here=C2=A0 ( but first congrats on first flight )=C2= =A0 Ed said he altered one of the two cooling systems & cured both, keep th= is in mind, I know I will if we have cooling problems, we should not we cop= ied Ed's set-up,=C2=A0 should have patented that Ed.=C2=A0 David R. Cook=C2= =A0 RV6A Rotary=C2=A0 Lansing MI.=20 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ed Anderson" < eanderson @ carolina . rr .com>=20 To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" < flyrotary @ lancaironline .net>=20 Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2012 1:01:18 PM=20 Subject: [ FlyRotary ] Me Too! =C2=A0Was : [ FlyRotary ] Re: N774CG, RV-10 = 20B first flight=20 Hi Time=20 First, congratulations on lift- off. =C2=A0A great aircraft the RV-10, I fl= y an=20 RV-6A.=20 Your flight sounds exactly like mine back 13 years ago.=20 Took off with airspeed increasing, altitude increasing, rpm increasing and= =20 oil/coolant temps beating them all. =C2=A0I was a max oil temp (245F) and c= oolant=20 was over 220F.=20 =C2=A0I only climbed to 800 ft and bent back around the pattern as I had in= tended=20 to made 5 circuits and then land. =C2=A0I leveled off and pulled back the p= ower=20 thinking that with less power and more airflow - that the temps would come= =20 down a bit. =C2=A0 NaDa . =C2=A0Still maxed out.=20 So rather I decided not to make a full circuit and decided to land as I cam= e=20 abeam the end of the runway. =C2=A0Pulled flap handle - Stuck! NO Flaps!(an= other=20 story) =C2=A0But, a 5500 ft runway was a blessing, make a beautiful no-flap= =20 landing (amazing what concentration does).=20 The problem (in my case) was insufficient airflow to the oil cooler. =C2=A0= I am=20 embarrassed a bit to admit it now, =C2=A0but I only had a 2 1/4" dia hose r= unning=20 to one corner of =C2=A0a box of a square plenum (no curves to smooth airflo= w)=20 around the coil cooler mounted within 10" of firewall. =C2=A0I eventually o= pened=20 up the hose to a 5" dia hose with a snorkel sticking out from the cowl.=20 That make it barely flyable on a cool day but was no solution.=20 I bit the bullet, got an Rx7 oil cooler ( I was using an Earls Cooler at th= e=20 time) and stuck it up under the PSRU - provided a 22 1/2" wide and 2 1/2"= =20 high opening underneath the prop spinner with a duct feeding all the air=20 right into the oil cooler. =C2=A0First flight with the new set up and the o= il=20 temp dropped 35F !, this took some of the heat load off the radiators and= =20 the =C2=A0coolant temp came right down as well.=20 So my first suggestion is take a good look at you airflow (in and out).=20 Attached is photo of my set up.=20 Also are you using a thermostat??=20 Best Regards=20 Ed=20 Edward L. Anderson=20 Anderson Electronic Enterprises LLC=20 305 Reefton Road=20 Weddington , NC 28104=20 http :// www . andersonee .com=20 http :// www . eicommander .com=20 --------------------------------------------------=20 From: "Chris Barber" < cbarber @ texasattorney .net>=20 Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2012 11:38 AM=20 To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" < flyrotary @ lancaironline .net>=20 Subject: [ FlyRotary ] Re: N774CG, RV-10 20B first flight=20 > Tim,=20 >=20 > I have no suggestions as this is exactly what concerns me when I attempt= =20 > first flight as I got my Airworthiness certificate yesterday. =C2=A0I wil= l be=20 > very attentive to the responses you get.=20 >=20 > Chris Barber=20 > Houston=20 >=20 > ________________________________________=20 > From: Rotary motors in aircraft [ flyrotary @ lancaironline .net] on beha= lf of=20 > Tiffanie Holt [coastiefamily4@ gmail .com]=20 > Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2012 10:16 AM=20 > To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 > Subject: [ FlyRotary ] N774CG, RV-10 20B first flight=20 >=20 > Well, got up this morning and did the first flight on the RV-10. =C2=A0OA= T=20 > 55 Degrees at 7000 ft. =C2=A0Did the taxi to the runway and the water tem= p=20 > was 168 and oil was 150. =C2=A0Everything looked full power in and off we= =20 > went. =C2=A0She has plenty of power, RPM was 7000, and here comes the=20 > temps. =C2=A0I immediatelly turn to down wind at 80kts and the water temp= =20 > came up to 220 and oil at 200. =C2=A0 Turned base and temps still climbin= g=20 > still at 80 kts , turned attention to land vise temps. =C2=A0I landed=20 > immediately and taxied back to the hangar and the temps peaked at 245=20 > water and 240 oil. =C2=A0She got hot, I got boil over once I shut the=20 > engine down. =C2=A0I took all the cowls off to help the cooling of the=20 > engine. =C2=A0Check everything over, turned the prop and listened for any= =20 > unusual noise, checked the oil and could smell the 2 stroke oil in it,=20 > which I understand is normal.=20 >=20 > She Flew, but not what I expected on temps. =C2=A0These are the highest= =20 > temps that I have seen so far. =C2=A0I had 11 hours on ground runs, but I= =20 > did not let water temps get above 205 and oil temp normally stayed at=20 > 180.=20 >=20 > At the hangar, I let the temps get to 180 on water and 160 on oil, I=20 > filled the expansion tank back up and ensure there was coolant and=20 > started her back up to see if I had normal readings. =C2=A0Oil pressure w= as=20 > on the rise, oil temp was at 175 and water temp stabilized at 190,=20 > Just wanted to ensure I did not do damage to the engine and that she=20 > would start. She was a little hard to start, but started purring like=20 > a kitten again. =C2=A0Shut her down, and then started her back up and she= =20 > immediately turn over.=20 >=20 > Did not run her much longer, had to shut her down and get to work.=20 >=20 > Are there any suggestions or inspections that I will need to do on the=20 > engine for the high temps?=20 >=20 > Things I plan to do before next run:=20 > 1. Oil Change, Filter Clean: It is time for a cleaning and I can=20 > inspect the oil.=20 > 2. Flush the radiator: Ensure everything looks normal=20 > 3. The highest point in my water system is the expansion tank, but the=20 > water return is at a level slightly below the expansion tank. =C2=A0I pla= n=20 > to install a fill/bleed valve in it to ensure all the air is out of=20 > the system.=20 > 4. Move the Water Temp Sensor from the block to the return line to the=20 > radiator=20 > 5. Place the Louvers in the cowling. =C2=A0I did put the louvers in per= =20 > Van's Plans, but I put then in the cowl to help pull the heat from the=20 > exhaust system.=20 > 6. I will also open up the inlet to the Radiator as well. =C2=A0The=20 > standard Sam James Cowl has a 4 3/4 inch Diameter opening, I will open=20 > it up more and give it at try.=20 >=20 > Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.=20 >=20 > Tim=20 >=20 > --=20 > Homepage: =C2=A0 http :// www . flyrotary .com/=20 > Archive and UnSub :=20 > http ://mail. lancaironline .net:81/lists/ flyrotary /List. html=20 > --=20 > Homepage: =C2=A0 http :// www . flyrotary .com/=20 > Archive and UnSub :=20 > http ://mail. lancaironline .net:81/lists/ flyrotary /List. html=20 --=20 Homepage: =C2=A0 http :// www . flyrotary .com/=20 Archive and UnSub : =C2=A0 http ://mail. lancaironline .net:81/lists/ flyro= tary /List. html=20 ------=_Part_1429070_1682246756.1335398139158 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <= div style=3D'font-family: Arial; font-size: 12pt; color: #000000'>Ed makes = a great point here  ( but first congrats on first flight )  Ed sa= id he altered one of the two cooling systems & cured both, keep this in= mind, I know I will if we have cooling problems, we should not we copied E= d's set-up,  should have patented that Ed.  David R. Cook  R= V6A Rotary  Lansing MI.

From: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
To: = "Rotary motors in aircraft" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent:= Wednesday, April 25, 2012 1:01:18 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Me= Too!  Was : [FlyRotary] Re: N774CG, RV-10 20B first flight

Hi = Time

First, congratulations on lift- off.  A great aircraft the= RV-10, I fly an
RV-6A.

Your flight sounds exactly like mine bac= k 13 years ago.

Took off with airspeed increasing, altitude increasi= ng, rpm increasing and
oil/coolant temps beating them all.  I was = a max oil temp (245F) and coolant
was over 220F.

 I only cl= imbed to 800 ft and bent back around the pattern as I had intended
to m= ade 5 circuits and then land.  I leveled off and pulled back the power=
thinking that with less power and more airflow - that the temps would = come
down a bit.   NaDa.  Still maxed out.

So rather I= decided not to make a full circuit and decided to land as I came
abeam= the end of the runway.  Pulled flap handle - Stuck! NO Flaps!(another=
story)  But, a 5500 ft runway was a blessing, make a beautiful no= -flap
landing (amazing what concentration does).

The problem (in= my case) was insufficient airflow to the oil cooler.  I am
embarr= assed a bit to admit it now,  but I only had a 2 1/4" dia hose running=
to one corner of  a box of a square plenum (no curves to smooth a= irflow)
around the coil cooler mounted within 10" of firewall.  I = eventually opened
up the hose to a 5" dia hose with a snorkel sticking = out from the cowl.
That make it barely flyable on a cool day but was no= solution.

I bit the bullet, got an Rx7 oil cooler ( I was using an = Earls Cooler at the
time) and stuck it up under the PSRU - provided a 2= 2 1/2" wide and 2 1/2"
high opening underneath the prop spinner with a = duct feeding all the air
right into the oil cooler.  First flight = with the new set up and the oil
temp dropped 35F !, this took some of t= he heat load off the radiators and
the  coolant temp came right do= wn as well.

So my first suggestion is take a good look at you airflo= w (in and out).
Attached is photo of my set up.

Also are you usi= ng a thermostat??

Best Regards

Ed

Edward L. AndersonAnderson Electronic Enterprises LLC
305 Reefton Road
Weddington, NC= 28104
http://www.andersonee.com
http://www.eicommander.com

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Chris Barber= " <cbarber@texasattorney.net>
Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2012 11:3= 8 AM
To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>=
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: N774CG, RV-10 20B first flight

> Tim= ,
>
> I have no suggestions as this is exactly what concerns me= when I attempt
> first flight as I got my Airworthiness certificate= yesterday.  I will be
> very attentive to the responses you ge= t.
>
> Chris Barber
> Houston
>
> ___________= _____________________________
> From: Rotary motors in aircraft [flyr= otary@lancaironline.net] on behalf of
> Tiffanie Holt [coastiefamily= 4@gmail.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2012 10:16 AM
> To: R= otary motors in aircraft
> Subject: [FlyRotary] N774CG, RV-10 20B fir= st flight
>
> Well, got up this morning and did the first fligh= t on the RV-10.  OAT
> 55 Degrees at 7000 ft.  Did the taxi= to the runway and the water temp
> was 168 and oil was 150.  Ev= erything looked full power in and off we
> went.  She has plenty= of power, RPM was 7000, and here comes the
> temps.  I immediat= elly turn to down wind at 80kts and the water temp
> came up to 220 a= nd oil at 200.   Turned base and temps still climbing
> still at= 80 kts, turned attention to land vise temps.  I landed
> immedi= ately and taxied back to the hangar and the temps peaked at 245
> wat= er and 240 oil.  She got hot, I got boil over once I shut the
> = engine down.  I took all the cowls off to help the cooling of the
&= gt; engine.  Check everything over, turned the prop and listened for a= ny
> unusual noise, checked the oil and could smell the 2 stroke oil = in it,
> which I understand is normal.
>
> She Flew, but = not what I expected on temps.  These are the highest
> temps tha= t I have seen so far.  I had 11 hours on ground runs, but I
> di= d not let water temps get above 205 and oil temp normally stayed at
>= 180.
>
> At the hangar, I let the temps get to 180 on water an= d 160 on oil, I
> filled the expansion tank back up and ensure there = was coolant and
> started her back up to see if I had normal readings= .  Oil pressure was
> on the rise, oil temp was at 175 and water= temp stabilized at 190,
> Just wanted to ensure I did not do damage = to the engine and that she
> would start. She was a little hard to st= art, but started purring like
> a kitten again.  Shut her down, = and then started her back up and she
> immediately turn over.
>=
> Did not run her much longer, had to shut her down and get to work.=
>
> Are there any suggestions or inspections that I will need = to do on the
> engine for the high temps?
>
> Things I pl= an to do before next run:
> 1. Oil Change, Filter Clean: It is time f= or a cleaning and I can
> inspect the oil.
> 2. Flush the radia= tor: Ensure everything looks normal
> 3. The highest point in my wate= r system is the expansion tank, but the
> water return is at a level = slightly below the expansion tank.  I plan
> to install a fill/b= leed valve in it to ensure all the air is out of
> the system.
>= ; 4. Move the Water Temp Sensor from the block to the return line to the > radiator
> 5. Place the Louvers in the cowling.  I did pu= t the louvers in per
> Van's Plans, but I put then in the cowl to hel= p pull the heat from the
> exhaust system.
> 6. I will also ope= n up the inlet to the Radiator as well.  The
> standard Sam Jame= s Cowl has a 4 3/4 inch Diameter opening, I will open
> it up more an= d give it at try.
>
> Any suggestions would be greatly apprecia= ted.
>
> Tim
>
> --
> Homepage:  http://= www.flyrotary.com/
> Archive and UnSub:
> http://mail.lancairo= nline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html
> --
> Homepage:  h= ttp://www.flyrotary.com/
> Archive and UnSub:
> http://mail.la= ncaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html

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Homepage:  = http://www.flyrotary.com/
Archive and UnSub:   http://mail.lancairo= nline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html
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