X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from hub026-NJ-7.exch026.serverdata.net ([206.225.166.170] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4.4) with ESMTPS id 5506428 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Wed, 25 Apr 2012 12:50:30 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=206.225.166.170; envelope-from=jwhaley@datacast.com Received: from MBX026-E1-NJ-6.exch026.domain.local ([10.240.14.56]) by HUB026-NJ-7.exch026.domain.local ([10.240.14.233]) with mapi id 14.01.0355.002; Wed, 25 Apr 2012 09:49:53 -0700 From: Jeff Whaley To: 'Rotary motors in aircraft' Subject: RE: N774CG, RV-10 20B first flight Thread-Topic: RE: N774CG, RV-10 20B first flight Thread-Index: Ac0jA29kMHJuhoidQhGcaExWvi4zjg== Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2012 16:49:53 +0000 Message-ID: <234B758DE9A64449BEB6BB5D1345CA7AF34338@mbx026-e1-nj-6.exch026.domain.local> Accept-Language: en-CA, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [209.87.232.162] Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="_005_234B758DE9A64449BEB6BB5D1345CA7AF34338mbx026e1nj6exch02_"; type="multipart/alternative" MIME-Version: 1.0 --_005_234B758DE9A64449BEB6BB5D1345CA7AF34338mbx026e1nj6exch02_ Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_234B758DE9A64449BEB6BB5D1345CA7AF34338mbx026e1nj6exch02_" --_000_234B758DE9A64449BEB6BB5D1345CA7AF34338mbx026e1nj6exch02_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Congratulations Tim. Your first flight sounds a lot like mine, except as you say my temps weren'= t quite as high as yours and never experienced a boil over upon landing. I've got a slow-poke (80-90 mph climb speed and 110-115 cruise) so I can re= late to your test flight conditions. I agree with Bobby; a set of pictures would help us a lot in helping you. = Without the photos what I can say is: ensure your coolers are in a high pre= ssure air stream; ensure you have an absolute seal on the intake plenums to= your coolers and make sure there are no obstructions to outlet airflow wit= hin 10-12 inches on the back side of your coolers. Questions: Why do you fill your expansion tank? - I would suggest leaving an air gap o= f at least 1/3 at the top. Do you have an air bleed hose from the front of your engine back to the exp= ansion tank? - This is pretty standard for most other rotary installs. Do you have a thermostat/bypass hole open or plugged? Belt driven water pump or electric? What are your coolant hose diameters? Jeff : "Bobby J. Hughes" Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] N774CG, RV-10 20B first flight Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2012 10:50:15 -0500 To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" [Message Header] [Undecoded Message] Tim, Congrats on your first flight. Pictures and cooler sizes would really help. Once you do some initial trouble shooting and changes you could limit your HP during take-off and climb. The RV10 climbs better than a C172 at reduced HP. I think I set my electric MT prop to 2200 rpm and didn't use any boost for the first few flights. Still could get 800 fpm climb. 7000 rpm on a 3-rotor is a lot of HP to cool. Bobby Hughes RV10- Renesis -----Original Message----- From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Tiffanie Holt Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2012 10:16 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] N774CG, RV-10 20B first flight Well, got up this morning and did the first flight on the RV-10. OAT 55 Degrees at 7000 ft. Did the taxi to the runway and the water temp was 168 and oil was 150. Everything looked full power in and off we went. She has plenty of power, RPM was 7000, and here comes the temps. I immediatelly turn to down wind at 80kts and the water temp came up to 220 and oil at 200. Turned base and temps still climbing still at 80 kts, turned attention to land vise temps. I landed immediately and taxied back to the hangar and the temps peaked at 245 water and 240 oil. She got hot, I got boil over once I shut the engine down. I took all the cowls off to help the cooling of the engine. Check everything over, turned the prop and listened for any unusual noise, checked the oil and could smell the 2 stroke oil in it, which I understand is normal. She Flew, but not what I expected on temps. These are the highest temps that I have seen so far. I had 11 hours on ground runs, but I did not let water temps get above 205 and oil temp normally stayed at 180. At the hangar, I let the temps get to 180 on water and 160 on oil, I filled the expansion tank back up and ensure there was coolant and started her back up to see if I had normal readings. Oil pressure was on the rise, oil temp was at 175 and water temp stabilized at 190, Just wanted to ensure I did not do damage to the engine and that she would start. She was a little hard to start, but started purring like a kitten again. Shut her down, and then started her back up and she immediately turn over. Did not run her much longer, had to shut her down and get to work. Are there any suggestions or inspections that I will need to do on the engine for the high temps? Things I plan to do before next run: 1. Oil Change, Filter Clean: It is time for a cleaning and I can inspect the oil. 2. Flush the radiator: Ensure everything looks normal 3. The highest point in my water system is the expansion tank, but the water return is at a level slightly below the expansion tank. I plan to install a fill/bleed valve in it to ensure all the air is out of the system. 4. Move the Water Temp Sensor from the block to the return line to the radiator 5. Place the Louvers in the cowling. I did put the louvers in per Van's Plans, but I put then in the cowl to help pull the heat from the exhaust system. 6. I will also open up the inlet to the Radiator as well. The standard Sam James Cowl has a 4 3/4 inch Diameter opening, I will open it up more and give it at try. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Tim This message, and the documents attached hereto, is intended only for the a= ddressee and may contain privileged or confidential information. Any unauth= orized disclosure is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message= in error, please notify us immediately so that we may correct our internal= records. Please then delete the original message. Thank you. --_000_234B758DE9A64449BEB6BB5D1345CA7AF34338mbx026e1nj6exch02_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Congratulations Tim.

 

Your first flight sounds a lot like mine, except as = you say my temps weren’t quite as high as yours and never experienced= a boil over upon landing.

I’ve got a slow-poke (80-90 mph climb speed an= d 110-115 cruise) so I can relate to your test flight conditions.

I agree with Bobby; a set of pictures would help us = a lot in helping you.  Without the photos what I can say is: ensure yo= ur coolers are in a high pressure air stream; ensure you have an absolute s= eal on the intake plenums to your coolers and make sure there are no obstructions to outlet airflow within 10-12 inc= hes on the back side of your coolers.

Questions:

Why do you fill your expansion tank? – I would= suggest leaving an air gap of at least 1/3 at the top.

Do you have an air bleed hose from the front of your= engine back to the expansion tank? – This is pretty standard for mos= t other rotary installs.

Do you have a thermostat/bypass hole open or plugged= ?

Belt driven water pump or electric?

What are your coolant hose diameters?

 

Jeff

 

:

"Bobby J. Hughes" <bhughes= @qnsi.net>

Subject:

RE: [FlyRotary] N774CG, RV-10 20B first= flight

Date:

Wed, 25 Apr 2012 10:50:15 -0500<= /p>

To:

"Rotary motors in aircraft" &= lt;flyrotary@lancaironline.net>

3D"Message

=

Tim,

Congrats on your first flight. Pictures and cooler sizes would really
help.  Once you do some initial trouble shooting and changes you c= ould
limit your HP during take-off and climb. The RV10 climbs better than a<= /tt>
C172 at reduced HP. I think I set my electric MT prop to 2200 rpm and
didn't use any boost for the first few flights. Still could get 800 fpm=
climb. 7000 rpm on a 3-rotor is a lot of HP to cool.  

Bobby Hughes
RV10- Renesis

-----Original Message-----
From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On
Behalf Of Tiffanie Holt
Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2012 10:16 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] N774CG, RV-10 20B first flight

Well, got up this morning and did the first flight on the RV-10.  = OAT
55 Degrees at 7000 ft.  Did the taxi to the runway and the water t= emp
was 168 and oil was 150.  Everything looked full power in and off = we
went.  She has plenty of power, RPM was 7000, and here comes the t= emps.
I immediatelly turn to down wind at 80kts and the water temp
came up to 220 and oil at 200.   Turned base and temps still climb= ing
still at 80 kts, turned attention to land vise temps.  I landed
immediately and taxied back to the hangar and the temps peaked at 245
water and 240 oil.  She got hot, I got boil over once I shut the e= ngine
down.  I took all the cowls off to help the cooling of the engine.=
Check everything over, turned the prop and listened for any unusual
noise, checked the oil and could smell the 2 stroke oil in it, which I<= /tt>
understand is normal.

She Flew, but not what I expected on temps.  These are the highest= temps
that I have seen so far.  I had 11 hours on ground runs, but I did= not
let water temps get above 205 and oil temp normally stayed at 180.=

At the hangar, I let the temps get to 180 on water and 160 on oil, I
filled the expansion tank back up and ensure there was coolant and=
started her back up to see if I had normal readings.  Oil pressure= was
on the rise, oil temp was at 175 and water temp stabilized at 190, Just=
wanted to ensure I did not do damage to the engine and that she would
start. She was a little hard to start, but started purring like a kitte= n
again.  Shut her down, and then started her back up and she immedi= ately
turn over.

Did not run her much longer, had to shut her down and get to work.=

Are there any suggestions or inspections that I will need to do on the<= /tt>
engine for the high temps?

Things I plan to do before next run:
1. Oil Change, Filter Clean: It is time for a cleaning and I can inspec= t
the oil.
2. Flush the radiator: Ensure everything looks normal 3. The highest
point in my water system is the expansion tank, but the water return is=
at a level slightly below the expansion tank.  I plan to install a=
fill/bleed valve in it to ensure all the air is out of the system.=
4. Move the Water Temp Sensor from the block to the return line to the<= /tt>
radiator 5. Place the Louvers in the cowling.  I did put the louve= rs in
per Van's Plans, but I put then in the cowl to help pull the heat from<= /tt>
the exhaust system.
6. I will also open up the inlet to the Radiator as well.  The sta= ndard
Sam James Cowl has a 4 3/4 inch Diameter opening, I will open it up mor= e
and give it at try.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Tim

 

This message, and the documents attached hereto, is intended only for the a= ddressee and may contain privileged or confidential information. Any unauth= orized disclosure is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message= in error, please notify us immediately so that we may correct our internal records. Please then delete the origin= al message. Thank you. --_000_234B758DE9A64449BEB6BB5D1345CA7AF34338mbx026e1nj6exch02_-- --_005_234B758DE9A64449BEB6BB5D1345CA7AF34338mbx026e1nj6exch02_ Content-Type: image/gif; name="image001.gif" Content-Description: image001.gif Content-Disposition: inline; filename="image001.gif"; size=849; creation-date="Wed, 25 Apr 2012 16:49:53 GMT"; modification-date="Wed, 25 Apr 2012 16:49:53 GMT" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 R0lGODdhCgANAPcAAAAAAIAAAACAAICAAAAAgIAAgACAgMDAwMDcwKbK8AAAAAAAKgAAVQAAfwAA qgAA1AAqAAAqKgAqVQAqfwAqqgAq1ABVAABVKgBVVQBVfwBVqgBV1AB/AAB/KgB/VQB/fwB/qgB/ 1ACqAACqKgCqVQCqfwCqqgCq1ADUAADUKgDUVQDUfwDUqgDU1CoAACoAKioAVSoAfyoAqioA1Coq ACoqKioqVSoqfyoqqioq1CpVACpVKipVVSpVfypVqipV1Cp/ACp/Kip/VSp/fyp/qip/1CqqACqq KiqqVSqqfyqqqiqq1CrUACrUKirUVSrUfyrUqirU1FUAAFUAKlUAVVUAf1UAqlUA1FUqAFUqKlUq VVUqf1UqqlUq1FVVAFVVKlVVVVVVf1VVqlVV1FV/AFV/KlV/VVV/f1V/qlV/1FWqAFWqKlWqVVWq f1WqqlWq1FXUAFXUKlXUVVXUf1XUqlXU1H8AAH8AKn8AVX8Af38Aqn8A1H8qAH8qKn8qVX8qf38q qn8q1H9VAH9VKn9VVX9Vf39Vqn9V1H9/AH9/Kn9/VX9/f39/qn9/1H+qAH+qKn+qVX+qf3+qqn+q 1H/UAH/UKn/UVX/Uf3/Uqn/U1KoAAKoAKqoAVaoAf6oAqqoA1KoqAKoqKqoqVaoqf6oqqqoq1KpV AKpVKqpVVapVf6pVqqpV1Kp/AKp/Kqp/Vap/f6p/qqp/1KqqAKqqKqqqVaqqf6qqqqqq1KrUAKrU KqrUVarUf6rUqqrU1NQAANQAKtQAVdQAf9QAqtQA1NQqANQqKtQqVdQqf9QqqtQq1NRVANRVKtRV VdRVf9RVqtRV1NR/ANR/KtR/VdR/f9R/qtR/1NSqANSqKtSqVdSqf9SqqtSq1NTUANTUKtTUVdTU f9TUqtTU1AAAAAwMDBkZGSYmJjMzMz8/P0xMTFlZWWZmZnJycn9/f4yMjJmZmaWlpbKysr+/v8zM zNjY2OXl5fLy8v/78KCgpICAgP8AAAD/AP//AAAA//8A/wD//////ywAAAAACgANAAAINgDxCRw4 EAC+fwgTIjT4DwCAAwIXHlSYkKHDhxEZUpTYEONEjRstOoR4ECRFkSQ5bux4saXDgAA7 --_005_234B758DE9A64449BEB6BB5D1345CA7AF34338mbx026e1nj6exch02_ Content-Type: image/gif; name="image002.gif" Content-Description: image002.gif Content-Disposition: inline; filename="image002.gif"; size=857; creation-date="Wed, 25 Apr 2012 16:49:53 GMT"; modification-date="Wed, 25 Apr 2012 16:49:53 GMT" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 R0lGODdhCgANAPcAAAAAAIAAAACAAICAAAAAgIAAgACAgMDAwMDcwKbK8AAAAAAAKgAAVQAAfwAA qgAA1AAqAAAqKgAqVQAqfwAqqgAq1ABVAABVKgBVVQBVfwBVqgBV1AB/AAB/KgB/VQB/fwB/qgB/ 1ACqAACqKgCqVQCqfwCqqgCq1ADUAADUKgDUVQDUfwDUqgDU1CoAACoAKioAVSoAfyoAqioA1Coq ACoqKioqVSoqfyoqqioq1CpVACpVKipVVSpVfypVqipV1Cp/ACp/Kip/VSp/fyp/qip/1CqqACqq KiqqVSqqfyqqqiqq1CrUACrUKirUVSrUfyrUqirU1FUAAFUAKlUAVVUAf1UAqlUA1FUqAFUqKlUq VVUqf1UqqlUq1FVVAFVVKlVVVVVVf1VVqlVV1FV/AFV/KlV/VVV/f1V/qlV/1FWqAFWqKlWqVVWq f1WqqlWq1FXUAFXUKlXUVVXUf1XUqlXU1H8AAH8AKn8AVX8Af38Aqn8A1H8qAH8qKn8qVX8qf38q qn8q1H9VAH9VKn9VVX9Vf39Vqn9V1H9/AH9/Kn9/VX9/f39/qn9/1H+qAH+qKn+qVX+qf3+qqn+q 1H/UAH/UKn/UVX/Uf3/Uqn/U1KoAAKoAKqoAVaoAf6oAqqoA1KoqAKoqKqoqVaoqf6oqqqoq1KpV AKpVKqpVVapVf6pVqqpV1Kp/AKp/Kqp/Vap/f6p/qqp/1KqqAKqqKqqqVaqqf6qqqqqq1KrUAKrU KqrUVarUf6rUqqrU1NQAANQAKtQAVdQAf9QAqtQA1NQqANQqKtQqVdQqf9QqqtQq1NRVANRVKtRV VdRVf9RVqtRV1NR/ANR/KtR/VdR/f9R/qtR/1NSqANSqKtSqVdSqf9SqqtSq1NTUANTUKtTUVdTU f9TUqtTU1AAAAAwMDBkZGSYmJjMzMz8/P0xMTFlZWWZmZnJycn9/f4yMjJmZmaWlpbKysr+/v8zM zNjY2OXl5fLy8v/78KCgpICAgP8AAAD/AP//AAAA//8A/wD//////ywAAAAACgANAAAIPgDxCRw4 EAC+fwcQKjxgMCHDhAD+GUQYEcDDhhIzVjwIkSJDfA8zQjxYUWRDixVHmnSI0aHCiS5ZAphJs2ZA ADs= --_005_234B758DE9A64449BEB6BB5D1345CA7AF34338mbx026e1nj6exch02_--