X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from nm24.bullet.mail.ac4.yahoo.com ([98.139.52.221] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4.4) with SMTP id 5482413 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sun, 15 Apr 2012 16:05:32 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=98.139.52.221; envelope-from=downing.j@sbcglobal.net Received: from [98.139.52.195] by nm24.bullet.mail.ac4.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Apr 2012 20:04:55 -0000 Received: from [68.142.200.225] by tm8.bullet.mail.ac4.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Apr 2012 20:04:55 -0000 Received: from [66.94.237.104] by t6.bullet.mud.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Apr 2012 20:04:55 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1009.access.mail.mud.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Apr 2012 20:04:55 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 528267.27235.bm@omp1009.access.mail.mud.yahoo.com Received: (qmail 64690 invoked from network); 15 Apr 2012 20:04:55 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=sbcglobal.net; h=DKIM-Signature:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-SMTP:Received:Message-ID:From:To:References:In-Reply-To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE; b=H99PenKtr8mVa//qIZKShwwBWjGyBFQPoDmuj4u/lqj2Wm2jptrsHaXIBs92DJDn3iq1bP0T1QhMX6KWejQrY6zjIM4aDNZOZF8B5/sf2/i3AGufW8vxIsM2pq5KQKDcl6NFRiORe2XOoVdnRlRyo5pZ0ePIRzWBwv6s/H9cJlc= ; DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=sbcglobal.net; s=s1024; t=1334520295; bh=zUlVrFghf0ACkoap/HjLxR/UD34ioa2T052Oxa5XKsk=; h=X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-SMTP:Received:Message-ID:From:To:References:In-Reply-To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE; b=yusPDC5nLmo3kC5vjeSaS8fruVHDjVW7HWNHOWFsOLRv/YbaYB+6ZbwX09NK2ZkWSQjE6ejKd0F0OB9Av5YYBGHybvRR7bYdEP7xWb/xhuQmUY/dE73C5cIbt5wjnW0JYs2kj2crXDEY5V5dvTnK3MCZAEIMzDiHXkjAFMP0YM8= X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-YMail-OSG: cNkEefAVM1mReWzk8NVO3CPT_IbXulwuC7WiwkXMh4nsN7L i9nS6.rpKhVcUiEbSfS9a1VJvK3W8ilCFghNq4fTPe0jIfJmzOkI_nTb._15 S2ZLuiZSoM_f6l39Vqbvt84r.e387ktm9ZNy6ZWdZIYlRkQt.lIL7uS5L1QE MUUESaoc5F.6.1c2rNC7Q5gnkH4EZD4eX08ou9Ob8tAWd4hiDJTVNEwXaXUa khEjaOeSNbIb13adHQ3NiAJRVpJivNw00X9oI9VOV3GTxqVhoTjI1aU2pOjg NBYic1MyajjWgpNjTSl8dfoJlQFeB8KbfHn2Ksg4BBmqhhm0AEinOLtaPl5H GOWaUxBDiGStXe_npHbWW4wtKZO0Rk2LvpgE1fusuvpIqTjMF2r7IRAuxGH9 Cbn.EmeLq8NtlYKcv8GSEPh_cmuO12aGZ8x25gedXRe1vG9fY25SJZomCyQG mLh8rfDmjWd039QkjOdZk4olYEtaMzS6NT_FIkh3qFureDz2t2Q-- X-Yahoo-SMTP: 4Ss7WYSswBAR3ULsDHPw5yIFKkoakpn6PCJcwuPp3izwMVSl Received: from JohnPC (downing.j@69.208.75.61 with login) by smtp109.sbc.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Apr 2012 13:04:54 -0700 PDT Message-ID: From: To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Laser Ignition, was: [FlyRotary] Re: The 16X is A L I V E... Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2012 16:06:08 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000A_01CD1B21.AB03B4F0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6002.18197 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6002.18463 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01CD1B21.AB03B4F0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Charlie, I'm really quite surprised that someone on the rotary site = hasn't tried an MSD Digital Capacitive Discharge ignition system, it = might even blast a few more hours out of the a set of plugs. John ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Charlie England=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2012 2:06 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Laser Ignition, was: [FlyRotary] Re: The 16X = is A L I V E... I can assure you that while you might need to ground one to 'make it = quit', there are lots of ways it can (and does) quit on its own without = your assistance. There's a reason that mags are the only truly redundant item that's = standard equipment on a basic FAA-blessed aircraft, & it isn't because = of big combustion chambers. FWIW, I won't be trying to home-brew a lasar ignition system. But if = multiple car makers are taking a serious look, it's a pretty safe bet = that they are confident in both the efficiency gains and the potential = reliability (they really do hate warranty returns, and EPA performance = requirements last a looong time on new cars). Once a system has been on = the road for a few years, I'd sure be interested in the motor that's = designed for it. After all, what's the MTBF for rotary plugs in aviation use, 30-40 = hrs? How much longer until someone gets the dreaded 'SAG' while trying = to climb out of a valley? Charlie On 04/14/2012 10:03 PM, CozyGirrrl@aol.com wrote:=20 LOL, and so some new fangled laser system yet to be proven is going = to cure all of our ills? Lets just say it will be fun to sit back and = watch with optimism for awhile. The early adopters can tell us all about = it.=20 I am curious, we tout our rotary systems and our EFI over = conventional aircraft systems, yet for every wire we have there are two = terminations, how many of the wires hooking up our systems are critical = to keep it running? Got a number?, multiply that by two. Terminations = are a huge liability. A mag has to be grounded out to make it quit. Not saying it is = better, but from this one angle it sure is simpler.=20 Chrissi & Randi www.CozyGirrrl.com CG Products, Custom Aircraft Hardware Chairwomen, Sun-N-Fun Engine Workshop In a message dated 4/14/2012 7:28:10 P.M. Central Daylight Time, = echristley@att.net writes: On 04/14/2012 11:39 AM, CozyGirrrl@aol.com wrote:=20 High voltage is cheap and has worked well for over 100 years. /end It's her last paragraph that concerned me the most. I spent 20 = years working with HID systems focused into fiber optics. Her last = sentence says it all.=20 I am not against innovation but I am very cautious. Chrissi & Randi She is correct, except that word "well" has a very fuzzy meaning. = There are many levels of "well". Magnetos work well. Points work well. = Electronic ignition works well. Capacitive discharge works well..... ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01CD1B21.AB03B4F0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Charlie, I'm really quite surprised = that someone on=20 the rotary site hasn't tried an MSD Digital Capacitive Discharge = ignition=20 system, it might even blast a few more hours out of the a set of = plugs. =20 John
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Charlie=20 England
Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2012 = 2:06=20 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Laser = Ignition,=20 was: [FlyRotary] Re: The 16X is A L I V E...

I can assure you that while you might need to ground = one to=20 'make it quit',  there are lots of ways it can (and does) quit on = its own=20 without your assistance.

There's a reason that mags are the = only truly=20 redundant item that's standard equipment on a basic FAA-blessed = aircraft,=20 & it isn't because of big combustion chambers.

FWIW, I = won't be=20 trying to home-brew a lasar ignition system. But if multiple car = makers are=20 taking a serious look, it's a pretty safe bet that they are confident = in both=20 the efficiency gains and the potential reliability (they really do = hate=20 warranty returns, and EPA performance requirements last a looong time = on new=20 cars). Once a system has been on the road for a few years, I'd sure be = interested in the motor that's designed for it.

After all, = what's the=20 MTBF for rotary plugs in aviation use, 30-40 hrs? How much longer = until=20 someone gets the dreaded 'SAG' while trying to climb out of a=20 valley?

Charlie


On 04/14/2012 10:03 PM, CozyGirrrl@aol.com wrote:=20
LOL, and so some new fangled laser system yet to be proven is = going to=20 cure all of our ills? Lets just say it will be fun to sit back and = watch=20 with optimism for awhile. The early adopters can tell us all about = it.=20
 
I am curious, we tout our rotary systems and our EFI over = conventional=20 aircraft systems, yet for every wire we have there are two=20 terminations, how many of the wires hooking up our systems are = critical=20 to keep it running? Got a number?, multiply that by two. = Terminations are a=20 huge liability.
A mag has to be grounded out to make it quit. Not saying it is = better,=20 but from this one angle it sure is simpler.
 
Chrissi=20 & Randi
www.CozyGirrrl.com
CG Products, = Custom=20 Aircraft Hardware
Chairwomen, Sun-N-Fun Engine Workshop
 
In a message dated 4/14/2012 7:28:10 P.M. Central Daylight = Time, echristley@att.net = writes:
On=20 04/14/2012 11:39 AM, CozyGirrrl@aol.com wrote:=20
 High voltage is cheap and has worked well for over = 100=20 years.
/end
 
It's her last paragraph that concerned me the most. I spent = 20=20 years working with HID systems focused into fiber optics. Her = last=20 sentence says it all.
I am not against innovation but I am very cautious.
Chrissi &=20 Randi
She is correct, except = that word=20 "well" has a very fuzzy meaning.  There are many levels of=20 "well".  Magnetos work well.  Points work well.  = Electronic=20 ignition works well.  Capacitive discharge works=20 = well.....
<= BR> ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01CD1B21.AB03B4F0--