X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from nm22.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com ([98.139.91.92] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4.4) with SMTP id 5482347 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sun, 15 Apr 2012 14:06:42 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=98.139.91.92; envelope-from=ceengland@bellsouth.net Received: from [98.139.91.65] by nm22.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Apr 2012 18:06:06 -0000 Received: from [98.139.44.79] by tm5.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Apr 2012 18:06:06 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1016.access.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Apr 2012 18:06:06 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 24266.28623.bm@omp1016.access.mail.sp2.yahoo.com Received: (qmail 59322 invoked from network); 15 Apr 2012 18:06:05 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bellsouth.net; s=s1024; t=1334513165; bh=Obet4SeTKgNC8z2N5xV/Xqkz37K3ssE6frU08S3vWOc=; h=X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-SMTP:Received:Message-ID:Date:From:User-Agent:MIME-Version:To:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:Content-Type; b=MCN0jHLFOuRXnNqZUNx/oMl+HT4Y5+jPXovm50jxFqGwRfzOal+ry5dKkfBc59GepZweWs3br9adXFA4Kbb8qD0BWxBiJeM//MYfvBhYRPN8HlWCxkgvMl6p8I4uQnL4oZ/oEuyPNwiNBGH+WbxXVBJV/tz/LDbQ4Vm5NcdTz0U= X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-YMail-OSG: y0.yy98VM1mXFiTSxHhN62fdt3EX1kHJFZIizXnyrPDNoZm NhTp5jF6tVfNIBmWpuaaPAQuUutxmQ__XGW1a2af8lUtC3pZi65CKhJfWegp CN.FApJ5aMrQhflOIVOm2HGfdx4RoZHq89CdFG63Fm5RiT9jV4M7LUCeCqLR 99eNMlHFquwawkJtNK_NOY46_TVN_a.ksfuzdLh6AWVV1RxuSQsKO6Z3BXvd aqP8GXtjova1.u3TlYKxw2oOXsQthAN3oGz4ftvpY3.PIQkIsqAhLAmGXtdg P2KrxM88PO13fKNOkV7Dvoz7b4n26rX2Ciu6.PlfvSEwy1dhSIUjLYLRZGgO W9f3TKtrNjiCZiFgTstd2mu_PXBHiWfnhpYKixBpTHjWVjVFN8jDebhwkORj 2tzAGha3Xxkj9qlMHdnOntMwiICHAq.07Zx_Reyo8TzlzZNPNyVzGkqcrqiO UUhUyQghdcxgcA6i.ETxYlulVkozzuhAXl2BG9LjyMY9C7nrDYp4- X-Yahoo-SMTP: uXJ_6LOswBCr8InijhYErvjWlJuRkoKPGNeiuu7PA.5wcGoy Received: from [192.168.10.30] (ceengland@98.95.166.34 with plain) by smtp112.sbc.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Apr 2012 11:06:04 -0700 PDT Message-ID: <4F8B0E0B.6000009@bellsouth.net> Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2012 13:06:03 -0500 From: Charlie England User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:7.0.1) Gecko/20110929 Thunderbird/7.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Laser Ignition, was: [FlyRotary] Re: The 16X is A L I V E... References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------000208030307040000000209" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------000208030307040000000209 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I can assure you that while you might need to ground one to 'make it quit', there are lots of ways it can (and does) quit on its own without your assistance. There's a reason that mags are the only truly redundant item that's standard equipment on a basic FAA-blessed aircraft, & it isn't because of big combustion chambers. FWIW, I won't be trying to home-brew a lasar ignition system. But if multiple car makers are taking a serious look, it's a pretty safe bet that they are confident in both the efficiency gains and the potential reliability (they really do hate warranty returns, and EPA performance requirements last a looong time on new cars). Once a system has been on the road for a few years, I'd sure be interested in the motor that's designed for it. After all, what's the MTBF for rotary plugs in aviation use, 30-40 hrs? How much longer until someone gets the dreaded 'SAG' while trying to climb out of a valley? Charlie On 04/14/2012 10:03 PM, CozyGirrrl@aol.com wrote: > LOL, and so some new fangled laser system yet to be proven is going to > cure all of our ills? Lets just say it will be fun to sit back and > watch with optimism for awhile. The early adopters can tell us all > about it. > I am curious, we tout our rotary systems and our EFI over conventional > aircraft systems, yet for every wire we have there are two > terminations, how many of the wires hooking up our systems are > critical to keep it running? Got a number?, multiply that by two. > Terminations are a huge liability. > A mag has to be grounded out to make it quit. Not saying it is better, > but from this one angle it sure is simpler. > Chrissi & Randi > www.CozyGirrrl.com > CG Products, Custom Aircraft Hardware > Chairwomen, Sun-N-Fun Engine Workshop > In a message dated 4/14/2012 7:28:10 P.M. Central Daylight Time, > echristley@att.net writes: > > On 04/14/2012 11:39 AM, CozyGirrrl@aol.com wrote: >> High voltage is cheap and has worked well for over 100 years. >> /end >> It's her last paragraph that concerned me the most. I spent 20 >> years working with HID systems focused into fiber optics. Her >> last sentence says it all. >> I am not against innovation but I am very cautious. >> Chrissi & Randi > She is correct, except that word "well" has a very fuzzy meaning. > There are many levels of "well". Magnetos work well. Points work > well. Electronic ignition works well. Capacitive discharge works > well..... > --------------000208030307040000000209 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I can assure you that while you might need to ground one to 'make it quit',  there are lots of ways it can (and does) quit on its own without your assistance.

There's a reason that mags are the only truly redundant item that's standard equipment on a basic FAA-blessed aircraft, & it isn't because of big combustion chambers.

FWIW, I won't be trying to home-brew a lasar ignition system. But if multiple car makers are taking a serious look, it's a pretty safe bet that they are confident in both the efficiency gains and the potential reliability (they really do hate warranty returns, and EPA performance requirements last a looong time on new cars). Once a system has been on the road for a few years, I'd sure be interested in the motor that's designed for it.

After all, what's the MTBF for rotary plugs in aviation use, 30-40 hrs? How much longer until someone gets the dreaded 'SAG' while trying to climb out of a valley?

Charlie


On 04/14/2012 10:03 PM, CozyGirrrl@aol.com wrote:
LOL, and so some new fangled laser system yet to be proven is going to cure all of our ills? Lets just say it will be fun to sit back and watch with optimism for awhile. The early adopters can tell us all about it.
 
I am curious, we tout our rotary systems and our EFI over conventional aircraft systems, yet for every wire we have there are two terminations, how many of the wires hooking up our systems are critical to keep it running? Got a number?, multiply that by two. Terminations are a huge liability.
A mag has to be grounded out to make it quit. Not saying it is better, but from this one angle it sure is simpler.
 
Chrissi & Randi
www.CozyGirrrl.com
CG Products, Custom Aircraft Hardware
Chairwomen, Sun-N-Fun Engine Workshop
 
In a message dated 4/14/2012 7:28:10 P.M. Central Daylight Time, echristley@att.net writes:
On 04/14/2012 11:39 AM, CozyGirrrl@aol.com wrote:
 High voltage is cheap and has worked well for over 100 years.
/end
 
It's her last paragraph that concerned me the most. I spent 20 years working with HID systems focused into fiber optics. Her last sentence says it all.
I am not against innovation but I am very cautious.
Chrissi & Randi
She is correct, except that word "well" has a very fuzzy meaning.  There are many levels of "well".  Magnetos work well.  Points work well.  Electronic ignition works well.  Capacitive discharge works well.....

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