X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from nm24.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com ([98.139.91.94] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4.1) with SMTP id 5124711 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Wed, 14 Sep 2011 17:59:41 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=98.139.91.94; envelope-from=roundrocktom@yahoo.com Received: from [98.139.91.67] by nm24.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Sep 2011 21:59:05 -0000 Received: from [98.139.91.16] by tm7.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Sep 2011 21:59:05 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1016.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Sep 2011 21:59:05 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 320356.85931.bm@omp1016.mail.sp2.yahoo.com Received: (qmail 58005 invoked by uid 60001); 14 Sep 2011 21:59:05 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s1024; t=1316037544; bh=HA9DrJKGOxyfFqs93cIdT26eCZ190Cr4e/M549Owd0w=; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:References:Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=G92B9lTbZ/6zkGscEsOVTatnzIHbxFzwcwurNwx1ZgyMcBfkXpk2A1LJe6Yz5V5i8LEzLF8gC8VOgx4qm5q//G0gdXHQO+xJbwrCk8VmQhI9Y5RcGf0RpXI34s7pJ8vFoY1Sm4ZuI+D7tfa0GrmB25HwZWhVGPcFPeOWU1f4Mck= DomainKey-Signature:a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:References:Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=YD73mddGpVxjU5ZfFlWRQar++wY+uwbQd3LGu1uxhgaLnlKneHEbuKd8hx5kqDpFQX3t3nNsAmK1TnL0N+x4IYasbsnnN8aJUcdgtGFubMoudMEBHB6/9pc6cU+QYQTZrallSXxxTNKPAjsu1wYgC01WeX0cOKaOgpBRvCZQePs=; X-YMail-OSG: 4fHarHoVM1mMzXAJqOm_Vx9BD5xGOWZhCPy2kgzotne1mml 1PjlBoQ8T4ttGfbnvEV8Yw5GQx_INyko0Mp2Y3KFyEcnKVOgDlgcgLeH04ex atbcFBwzqLx5rLvExCIeEvp8go5JWndjEyIZm3bZbAnZvaeB_vnGyplr1qCI jfqacS62DUvJVkuuM3bUs4OxaXlxap9YveAi07nNz0dEgJWrBf8.Q4D_ZLSW AFYVbJxjws5bAaXwpWHgYRDhzMipHYznMLyYXZNVcPCw7HIwQ6NevnkwppWU cSN89GFcbGpKulubcveVIGZiEZI3F0uoLfSI.fE17PXEp5u6DJ18raQej17C rL6P27iKyGeEWs3PbAjdeccYDk6mqMFSK4Dte4Pfd9KGp1g_dX6V.lXoVZS5 NfYufF6uzi5Ds8Y9HHSkdMFG48vb9UwXprMGgQmukzf3vCo6U5OmJ7gcQrwr Bouvuya637h7H.z3DNo.GFFXdsAvF9Jj60W3MFwAmeOSvtUiwhUDApzs- Received: from [216.52.185.72] by web111507.mail.gq1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 14 Sep 2011 14:59:04 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.8.114.317681 References: Message-ID: <1316037544.57617.YahooMailNeo@web111507.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2011 14:59:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Walter Reply-To: Tom Walter Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: The good news and the bad news...... To: Rotary motors in aircraft In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="965304187-1339748750-1316037544=:57617" --965304187-1339748750-1316037544=:57617 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Tracy,=0A=0AIf the second CAS sensor was set up at 120 crank degrees after = the first one, wouldn't that be a zero offset?=0A=0AMy thoughts:=A0 Rotor s= pins at 1/3 crank speed..... so with 720 crank revolutions, that is six ign= ition events.So each ignition event is 120 degrees apart.=A0=A0=A0 Yes, I t= end to think in 720 crankshaft degrees, to many yearsin automotive piston e= ngines.=A0 =0A=0A=0ATom=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A______________________= __________=0AFrom: Tracy =0ATo: Rotary motors in aircra= ft =0ASent: Wednesday, September 14, 2011 4:43= PM=0ASubject: [FlyRotary] Re: The good news and the bad news......=0A=0A= =0AThe relay is not needed in this hypothetical fix. =A0 The EC2/3 already = has 2 CAS inputs. =A0All that is needed is a hard definition of sensor offs= et so the software can=A0be written appropriately. =A0( I'm assuming a Rene= sis engine which has only one CAS in this discussion.)=0A=0AThe CAS output = is an AC voltage sine-wave that varies with engine speed. =A0 This is true = for both Mazda and Subaru engines (and almost all others). =A0 The sensor i= s a variable reluctor type. =A0=A0=0A=0ATracy=0A=0ASent from my iPad=0A=0AO= n Sep 14, 2011, at 11:53 AM, Chad Robinson wro= te:=0A=0A=0AOn 9/14/2011 1:48 PM, Al Wick wrote: =0A> =0A>>>If memory serves, it's 0 to 5vdc square wave. = =0A>>=A0=0A>>>Yes, but I'm not sure= where you are going. You thinking=A0normally closed contacts to OEM CAS, n= orm open to backup CAS? You still have to manage angle offset. Would be unf= ortunate to have moisture in relay or turbulence disrupt CAS. Likely not go= ing to end up with safety improvement. Good creative idea though. =0AThe ro= tary engine CAS is set up on a bracket near the front pulley. I was envisio= ning a system where you had a sensor in exactly the same spot on the other = side of the toothed wheel. You might need an offset alternator pulley to ma= ke room for it - but then you don't have to worry about angles/offsets. It'= s just a second sensor, ready to go - flip a switch and try an engine resta= rt. If relay reliability was a concern there are always SSRs or even just g= ood switching transistors...=0A>=0A> --965304187-1339748750-1316037544=:57617 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Tracy,

If the second CAS sensor wa= s set up at 120 crank degrees after the first one, wouldn't that be a zero = offset?

My thoughts:&nbs= p; Rotor spins at 1/3 crank speed..... so with 720 crank revolutions, that = is six ignition events. So each ignition event is 120 degrees = apart.    Yes, I tend to think in 720 crankshaft degrees, to= many years in automotive piston engines. 

Tom






From: Tracy <rwstracy@= gmail.com>
To: Rotar= y motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2011 4:43= PM
Subject: [FlyRotary= ] Re: The good news and the bad news......

The relay is not needed in this hypothetical fix.   The E= C2/3 already has 2 CAS inputs.  All that is needed is a hard definitio= n of sensor offset so the software can be written appropriately.  ( I'm assuming a = Renesis engine which has only one CAS in this discussion.)

The CAS output is an AC volta= ge sine-wave that varies with engine speed.   This is true for both Ma= zda and Subaru engines (and almost all others).   The sensor is a vari= able reluctor type.   

Tracy

Sent= from my iPad

On Sep 14, 2011, at 11:53 AM, Chad Robinson <= ;crobinson@medialante= rn.com> wrote:

=0A On 9/14/2011 1:48 PM, Al Wick wrote:=0A
=0A =0A =0A =0A
<What kind of= signal is on the CAS line
=0A
If memory serves, it's 0 to 5= vdc square wave.
=0A
 
=0A
<Could it= go through a relay safely?
=0A
Yes, but I'm not sure where = you are going. You=0A thinking normally closed contacts to OEM = CAS, norm open to=0A backup CAS? You still have to manage angle offs= et. Would be=0A unfortunate to have moisture in relay or turbulence = disrupt CAS.=0A Likely not going to end up with safety improvement. = Good=0A creative idea though.
=0A
=0A The r= otary engine CAS is set up on a bracket near the front pulley.=0A I was = envisioning a system where you had a sensor in exactly the=0A same spot = on the other side of the toothed wheel. You might need an=0A offset alte= rnator pulley to make room for it - but then you don't=0A have to worry = about angles/offsets. It's just a second sensor, ready=0A to go - flip a= switch and try an engine restart. If relay=0A reliability was a concern= there are always SSRs or even just good=0A switching transistors...
= =0A
=0A =0A=0A


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