X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com ([75.180.132.123] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4.1) with ESMTP id 5114475 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 05 Sep 2011 17:28:26 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=75.180.132.123; envelope-from=eanderson@carolina.rr.com Return-Path: X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=clOQl2Kon9ihL0vqe5S6shCOWnQ8eDPHG/StQ1omz74= c=1 sm=0 a=ToFzvHwIqmwA:10 a=SC71y0a/4S6V9vjVxUojGA==:17 a=ayC55rCoAAAA:8 a=3oc9M9_CAAAA:8 a=V0sYiUSkAAAA:8 a=pedpZTtsAAAA:8 a=pGLkceISAAAA:8 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=W_ZKl9HzAAAA:20 a=eMoo2lX9ZYVuQ5mSWQYA:9 a=qT5z8q3U18LSI-w9wxMA:7 a=wPNLvfGTeEIA:10 a=XptUGg1y60QA:10 a=U8Ie8EnqySEA:10 a=eJojReuL3h0A:10 a=MSl-tDqOz04A:10 a=EzXvWhQp4_cA:10 a=f6powx9raMBORmyR:21 a=bnTGOQRmvWsnhDYY:21 a=ZAMWlrBQ1rdw58LbsNIA:9 a=0--EeyPoUXUrvI2O3TIA:7 a=tXsnliwV7b4A:10 a=SC71y0a/4S6V9vjVxUojGA==:117 X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 X-Originating-IP: 174.110.175.135 Received: from [174.110.175.135] ([174.110.175.135:58552] helo=EdPC) by cdptpa-oedge01.mail.rr.com (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 2.2.3.46 r()) with ESMTP id 4F/EF-15370-6DE356E4; Mon, 05 Sep 2011 21:27:50 +0000 Message-ID: From: "Ed Anderson" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: The good news and the bad news...... Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2011 17:27:34 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_004A_01CC6BF1.1995CD80" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 14.0.8117.416 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V14.0.8117.416 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_004A_01CC6BF1.1995CD80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ok, Bill - I'm going to have stop drinking that stuff they were selling = out of a drum behind that tent that night at the Paducah BBQ festival - = it must not be good from the memory {:>) Ed From: Bill Eslick=20 Sent: Monday, September 05, 2011 5:17 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: The good news and the bad news...... Ed, I was most definitely there, and have photos to prove it! And Ed, I = have enough actual glider time that I really don't need to challenge you = in that department! You may remain the champ! (Please!) Thanks everyone for your very kind words. One just cannot predict how = you will respond until the real thing happens. I have crashed several = simulators in the last 40 years including F-4, FK-100, B-727, MD-80, = DC-10, B-757 & B-767, but the real thing is definitely more impressive. = It was just a total blessing that it quit when it did and not during the = next 30 seconds. That would have meant lots more repairs, and maybe = some on me too. =20 I will be re-doing my panel now, so if anyone wants a GREAT deal on a = Grand Rapids EIS set up for liquid cooling, or an EIS by Ed, or a couple = of Van's fuel guages, let me know. Thanks again, y'all. You are a great group. Bill On Sun, Sep 4, 2011 at 4:41 PM, Ed Anderson = wrote: Bob, Boy, I must have been out of it at Paducah flyin - I don't recall = seeing Bill there - in fact, I thought that only Steve Boese and I had = the distinction of both making down wind landings - Bill, must have had = his invisible strobe light on {:>). Wait is the "W" in Steven name for = William? But doesn't he go by Steve? Color me confused. Ed From: CozyGirrrl@aol.com=20 Sent: Sunday, September 04, 2011 4:48 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: The good news and the bad news...... You mean one of the several downwind landings made that morning? =3D) I believe all of the fly in guests made a downwind landing on arrival. Chrissi & Randi www.CozyGirrrl.com CG Products, Custom Aircraft Hardware Chairwomen, Sun-N-Fun Engine Workshop In a message dated 9/4/2011 3:43:17 P.M. Central Daylight Time, = bobperk90658@bellsouth.net writes: Bill, I am glad that no one was hurt. It is a shame that the plane was = damaged, but it is good that repairs are in the making. I Will Send you pictures of your landing last year at Paducah if you = like. Let me know. Bob Perkinson RV-9 13B=20 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= --- From: Bill Eslick To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Fri, September 2, 2011 10:51:50 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] The good news and the bad news...... I have been holding up reporting this until all the facts are in, = but that might never happen, so here we go. Good news: No injuries. =20 Bad news: I have some work to do. Photos at: http://www.tiny9.com/u/2101 On August 16th at 10 AM, I lined up for takeoff at my home airport = (3600' paved) into a 5 knot headwind. I had just finished changing the = oil and filter and plugs. Run-up was fine, so off I went. = Approximately mid-field, and a couple of hundred feet in the air, it = suddenly and without any warning became very silent. Hit the big switch which puts direct battery power to everything = engine, but no noise. No more time. At this point flying the machine = becomes THE priority. Dropped the nose and was amazed to see a little = bit of runway under the nose! I had fully expected to land in trees, = houses or the river, so I dove what seemed like straight down to capture = as much runway as possible while (somehow) holding the electric flap = switch long enough to get full flaps (noticed this later). Pulled = probably my best round-out ever - no bounce. Brakes to max and tail up = for weight. I think my sub-concious put it all the way on the nose to = try to prevent going through the fence and down the hill. Wheel skid = starts about 200 feet from the stopping point. Skid marks from the = wheel pants, cowling and prop run about the last 50 feet. It stopped = nose down just off the end. The tail was still over pavement. Pushed = the slider canopy UPHILL, stepped out and down. Noticed that I was not = even scared by the whole event. Interesting. Never even considered = trying to turn around. Pre-thinking that non-option apparently paid = off. =20 More good news. No FAA or NTSB as it was a non-reportable incident. = Didn't even bend the gear legs. Also, my neighbor crashed in a = Challenger about 10 minutes earlier at the city airport about 10 miles = away. The police and rescue types were headed that way (they had = injuries) and were not interested in my minor mishap. As for the engine. When we got it back to the hangar, the prop = would turn only haltingly. You could feel grinding going on inside. = First try at turning had it come up hard and stop. More fooling with it = and it gradually came looser and would turn. Really looked like = something came loose in there. Pulled a plug from each rotor and did a = compression test. Rotor 1 was 80-80-80. Rotor 2 was 2-2-2. More proof = that something had come loose. With that evidence, the insurance = company allowed me to remove the engine for inspection. What I found = was a pile of ground up ceramic junk. All the seals were still fine. = Lots of time went in to finding where that stuff came from. Went = through every inch of the induction system. Finally Jason Hutchison (my = other on-airport rotary guy) broke the code. While the RV was standing = on it's nose, this crap from my burned-out Hushpower II ran back up the = manifold and in the exhaust port. That is what was grinding. Crap. = Now the entire thing is off the firewall including the engine mount. = All the wiring is disconnected (did not find anything loose or missing). = I spent the morning looking under the panel for any loose or broken = wiring, but found none. When I get the EC-2 out, Jason wants to plug it = into his plane and we'll do the plugs and injectors test. If that = checks out, Tracy, it is coming to you for a good look. I don't know = what else to check. The engine quit just like somebody reached over and = turned off the ignition. No stumble, no hiccup, just instant silence. = I honestly do not know if the prop was turning or not. I suspect not, = due to the silence and the fact that one blade is untouched. As you can see from the photos, there was something going on with = Rotor 1. Wear is apparent down stream from the plug holes and all 3 = apex seals are starting to chip in the center. There is quite a lot of = carbon also on the rotors after 170 hours. Going forward, I have decided to look at resale value for if/when my = RV-12 days arrive. This means putting a (gasp) IO-360 on it. The = rotary has given me a safe 10-year run (til now, of course), so I have = no regrets, but this is an opportunity to make some changes, and parts = are already on the way. I will still be hanging out at the engine tent = at S-n-F and wherever else gatherings happen. Hope to be flying by the = first of next year.... I'm sure some of you will have suggestions about what might have = gone wrong, and I welcome any kind of speculation, but bear in mind I am = just looking at a pile of parts and wires at this point. Both fuel = pumps were on, tanks were over half full, crank angle sensor worked = fine. Guess it's obvious that I now have a RD-1A, EC-2, EFI Monitor = (Ed's), Felix 68/72 and Props Inc 68/72 wood props and LOTS of engine = parts (my whole 14-year stash) available! And priced to sell! Bill Eslick RV-6 13B/NA EC-2 RD-1A 750 Hours ------=_NextPart_000_004A_01CC6BF1.1995CD80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 Ok, Bill - I'm going to have stop drinking = that=20 stuff they were selling out of a drum behind that tent  that night = at the=20 Paducah BBQ festival - it must not be good from the memory = {:>)
 
Ed
 

Sent: Monday, September 05, 2011 5:17 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: The good news and the bad=20 news......

Ed,

I=20 was most definitely there, and have photos to prove it!  And Ed, I = have=20 enough actual glider time that I really don't need to challenge you in = that=20 department!  You may remain the champ!  = (Please!)

Thanks=20 everyone for your very kind words.  One just cannot predict how = you=20 will respond until the real thing happens.  I have crashed several=20 simulators in the last 40 years including F-4, FK-100, B-727, MD-80, = DC-10,=20 B-757 & B-767, but the real thing is definitely more = impressive. =20

It was just a total blessing that it quit when it did and not = during the=20 next 30 seconds.  That would have meant lots more repairs, and = maybe some=20 on me too. 

I will be re-doing my panel now, so if anyone = wants a=20 GREAT deal on a Grand Rapids EIS set up for liquid cooling, or an EIS by = Ed, or=20 a couple of Van's fuel guages, let me know.

Thanks again, y'all. = You are=20 a great group.

Bill



On Sun, Sep 4, 2011 at 4:41 PM, Ed Anderson = <eanderson@carolina.rr.com&g= t;=20 wrote:
Bob, Boy, I must have been out of it at Paducah = flyin - I=20 don't recall seeing Bill there - in fact, I thought that only Steve = Boese and=20 I had the distinction of both making down wind landings - Bill, must = have had=20 his invisible strobe light on {:>).  Wait is the "W" in Steven = name=20 for William? But doesn't he go by Steve?  Color me = confused.
 
Ed

Sent: Sunday, September 04, 2011 4:48 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: The good news and the bad=20 news......

You mean one of the several downwind landings made that morning? = =3D)
I believe all of the fly in guests made a downwind landing = on=20 arrival.
 
Chrissi & Randi
www.CozyGirrrl.com
CG=20 Products, Custom Aircraft Hardware
Chairwomen, Sun-N-Fun Engine=20 Workshop
 
In a message dated 9/4/2011 3:43:17 P.M. Central Daylight Time, = bobperk90658@bellsouth.net writes:
Bill,
I am glad that no one was hurt.  It is a shame that the = plane was=20 damaged, but it is good that repairs are in the making.

I Will Send you pictures of your landing last year at Paducah = if you=20 like.  Let me know.

Bob Perkinson
RV-9 13B=20


From: Bill Eslick = <wgeslick@gmail.com>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft = <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Fri, September 2, 2011 = 10:51:50=20 PM
Subject: = [FlyRotary] The=20 good news and the bad news......

I have been = holding up=20 reporting this until all the facts are in, but that might never = happen, so=20 here we go.

Good news:  No = injuries. =20

Bad news:  I have some work to do.

Photos = at: =20 http://www.tiny9.com/u/2101

On August 16th at 10 AM, I = lined up for=20 takeoff at my home airport (3600' paved) into a 5 knot = headwind.  I had=20 just finished changing the oil and filter and plugs.  Run-up = was fine,=20 so off I went.  Approximately mid-field, and a couple of = hundred feet=20 in the air, it suddenly and without any warning became very=20 silent.

Hit the big switch which puts direct battery power to = everything engine, but no noise.  No more time.  At this = point=20 flying the machine becomes THE priority.  Dropped the nose and = was=20 amazed to see a little bit of runway under the nose!  I had = fully=20 expected to land in trees, houses or the river, so I dove what = seemed like=20 straight down to capture as much runway as possible while (somehow) = holding=20 the electric flap switch long enough to get full flaps (noticed this = later).  Pulled probably my best round-out ever - no = bounce. =20 Brakes to max and tail up for weight.  I think my sub-concious = put it=20 all the way on the nose to try to prevent going through the fence = and down=20 the hill.  Wheel skid starts about 200 feet from the stopping=20 point.  Skid marks from the wheel pants, cowling and prop run = about the=20 last 50 feet.  It stopped nose down just off the end.  The = tail=20 was still over pavement.  Pushed the slider canopy UPHILL, = stepped out=20 and down.  Noticed that I was not even scared by the whole = event. =20 Interesting.  Never even considered trying to turn = around. =20 Pre-thinking that non-option apparently paid off. 

More = good=20 news.  No FAA or NTSB as it was a non-reportable = incident.  Didn't=20 even bend the gear legs.  Also, my neighbor crashed in a = Challenger=20 about 10 minutes earlier at the city airport about 10 miles = away.  The=20 police and rescue types were headed that way (they had injuries) and = were=20 not interested in my minor mishap.

As for the engine.  = When we=20 got it back to the hangar, the prop would turn only haltingly.  = You=20 could feel grinding going on inside.  First try at turning had = it come=20 up hard and stop.  More fooling with it and it gradually came = looser=20 and would turn.  Really looked like something came loose in=20 there.  Pulled a plug from each rotor and did a compression = test. =20 Rotor 1 was 80-80-80.  Rotor 2 was 2-2-2.  More proof that = something had come loose.  With that evidence, the insurance = company=20 allowed me to remove the engine for inspection.  What I found = was a=20 pile of ground up ceramic junk.  All the seals were still = fine. =20 Lots of time went in to finding where that stuff came from.  = Went=20 through every inch of the induction system.  Finally Jason = Hutchison=20 (my other on-airport rotary guy) broke the code.  While the RV = was=20 standing on it's nose, this crap from my burned-out Hushpower II ran = back up=20 the manifold and in the exhaust port.  That is what was = grinding. =20 Crap.  Now the entire thing is off the firewall including the = engine=20 mount.  All the wiring is disconnected (did not find anything = loose or=20 missing).  I spent the morning looking under the panel for any = loose or=20 broken wiring, but found none.  When I get the EC-2 out, Jason = wants to=20 plug it into his plane and we'll do the plugs and injectors = test.  If=20 that checks out, Tracy, it is coming to you for a good look.  I = don't=20 know what else to check.  The engine quit just like somebody = reached=20 over and turned off the ignition.  No stumble, no hiccup, just = instant=20 silence.  I honestly do not know if the prop was turning or = not. =20 I suspect not, due to the silence and the fact that one blade is=20 untouched.

As you can see from the photos, there was = something going=20 on with Rotor 1.  Wear is apparent down stream from the plug = holes and=20 all 3 apex seals are starting to chip in the center.  There is = quite a=20 lot of carbon also on the rotors after 170 hours.

Going = forward, I=20 have decided to look at resale value for if/when my RV-12 days = arrive. =20 This means putting a (gasp) IO-360 on it.  The rotary has given = me a=20 safe 10-year run (til now, of course), so I have no regrets, but = this is an=20 opportunity to make some changes, and parts are already on the = way.  I=20 will still be hanging out at the engine tent at S-n-F and wherever = else=20 gatherings happen.  Hope to be flying by the first of next=20 year....

I'm sure some of you will have suggestions about = what might=20 have gone wrong, and I welcome any kind of speculation, but bear in = mind I=20 am just looking at a pile of parts and wires at this point.  = Both fuel=20 pumps were on, tanks were over half full, crank angle sensor worked=20 fine.

Guess it's obvious that I now have a RD-1A, EC-2, EFI = Monitor=20 (Ed's),  Felix 68/72 and Props Inc 68/72 wood props and LOTS of = engine=20 parts (my whole 14-year stash) available!  And priced to = sell!

Bill Eslick
RV-6 13B/NA EC-2 RD-1A
750=20 = Hours



=

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