X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from hrndva-omtalb.mail.rr.com ([71.74.56.122] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4.1) with ESMTP id 5113454 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sun, 04 Sep 2011 09:22:09 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=71.74.56.122; envelope-from=clouduster@austin.rr.com Return-Path: X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=BYTzOfBuqH0MnPkg9hJMEJejO8uiqGqgn0U8Q/tCzYo= c=1 sm=0 a=ToFzvHwIqmwA:10 a=e9Fp7UO/B8F9COq9AYcbcw==:17 a=3oc9M9_CAAAA:8 a=ayC55rCoAAAA:8 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=W_ZKl9HzAAAA:20 a=sye8z1uCQjZxIaHlHUoA:9 a=Ai6PYFFO5RLdkIMfXrsA:7 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=U8Ie8EnqySEA:10 a=EzXvWhQp4_cA:10 a=DtpKM-wO2WFersCX:21 a=4xiSLMjQfa49_Q6B:21 a=pedpZTtsAAAA:8 a=MKj1QSvnSBp91k1N0E8A:9 a=1Fs83fTlN801BCaBYlEA:7 a=tXsnliwV7b4A:10 a=eJojReuL3h0A:10 a=reoof5m4n5CRRZ8C:21 a=ODDjlWcxyMf3mG58:21 a=e9Fp7UO/B8F9COq9AYcbcw==:117 X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 X-Originating-IP: 66.68.41.170 Received: from [66.68.41.170] ([66.68.41.170:56632] helo=DWHPC) by hrndva-oedge03.mail.rr.com (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 2.2.3.46 r()) with ESMTP id D0/F6-16122-D5B736E4; Sun, 04 Sep 2011 13:21:34 +0000 Message-ID: From: "Dennis Havarlah" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: The good news and the bad news...... Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2011 08:21:22 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0774_01CC6ADB.A19A2E40" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6002.18197 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6002.18463 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0774_01CC6ADB.A19A2E40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable After 225 hrs of flying on my Renesis the guts of my HP were pretty = well disintergrated. I used a long chisel and other rods to finish the = job. If I were to do it a gain I'd just make a pipe to replace the = muffler. ----- Original Message -----=20 From: bktrub@aol.com=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Saturday, September 03, 2011 12:35 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: The good news and the bad news...... How did you remove the muffler innards? I've got a Hushpower and at = this point, it's the only thing in the plane that makes me nervous, = other than the guy in the cockpit. Brian Trubee -----Original Message----- From: Dennis Havarlah To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Sat, Sep 3, 2011 8:26 am Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: The good news and the bad news...... Bill,=20 Great flying and decision making to get it back on the ground with = "minor" damage!!! I sure hope we can find the cause to prevent it in the future. =20 One idea: Rotor #1 - still great comp. Rotor #2 - None. First flight = after plugs changed. Any possibility one plug in Rotor #2 protruded = beyond the housing and did damage? Why does Rotor # 2 have no = compression? =20 The muffler crap should not have damaged anything because it would = only get into the engine after the nose went down and the prop stopped. But on the other hand - you would have had some power from Rotor # 1 = "No stumble, no hiccup, just instant silence" That indicates to me total = failure of fuel or ignition. Concerning HushPower II mufflers - After Bobby H's. loss of power I = removed my muffler and found the internals failing at about 225 hrs. I = removed all the internals and now fly with just the muffler shell. Dennis H. ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Bryan Winberry=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Saturday, September 03, 2011 9:53 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: The good news and the bad news...... Bill, Helluva nice job on the emergency. Glad you=E2=80=99re unhurt. Bryan -------------------------------------------------------------------------= --- From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] = On Behalf Of Bill Eslick Sent: Friday, September 02, 2011 11:52 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] The good news and the bad news...... I have been holding up reporting this until all the facts are in, = but that might never happen, so here we go. Good news: No injuries. =20 Bad news: I have some work to do. Photos at: http://www.tiny9.com/u/2101 On August 16th at 10 AM, I lined up for takeoff at my home airport = (3600' paved) into a 5 knot headwind. I had just finished changing the = oil and filter and plugs. Run-up was fine, so off I went. = Approximately mid-field, and a couple of hundred feet in the air, it = suddenly and without any warning became very silent. Hit the big switch which puts direct battery power to everything = engine, but no noise. No more time. At this point flying the machine = becomes THE priority. Dropped the nose and was amazed to see a little = bit of runway under the nose! I had fully expected to land in trees, = houses or the river, so I dove what seemed like straight down to capture = as much runway as possible while (somehow) holding the electric flap = switch long enough to get full flaps (noticed this later). Pulled = probably my best round-out ever - no bounce. Brakes to max and tail up = for weight. I think my sub-concious put it all the way on the nose to = try to prevent going through the fence and down the hill. Wheel skid = starts about 200 feet from the stopping point. Skid marks from the = wheel pants, cowling and prop run about the last 50 feet. It stopped = nose down just off the end. The tail was still over pavement. Pushed = the slider canopy UPHILL, stepped out and down. Noticed that I was not = even scared by the whole event. Interesting. Never even considered = trying to turn around. Pre-thinking that non-option apparently paid = off. =20 More good news. No FAA or NTSB as it was a non-reportable incident. = Didn't even bend the gear legs. Also, my neighbor crashed in a = Challenger about 10 minutes earlier at the city airport about 10 miles = away. The police and rescue types were headed that way (they had = injuries) and were not interested in my minor mishap. As for the engine. When we got it back to the hangar, the prop = would turn only haltingly. You could feel grinding going on inside. = First try at turning had it come up hard and stop. More fooling with it = and it gradually came looser and would turn. Really looked like = something came loose in there. Pulled a plug from each rotor and did a = compression test. Rotor 1 was 80-80-80. Rotor 2 was 2-2-2. More proof = that something had come loose. With that evidence, the insurance = company allowed me to remove the engine for inspection. What I found = was a pile of ground up ceramic junk. All the seals were still fine. = Lots of time went in to finding where that stuff came from. Went = through every inch of the induction system. Finally Jason Hutchison (my = other on-airport rotary guy) broke the code. While the RV was standing = on it's nose, this crap from my burned-out Hushpower II ran back up the = manifold and in the exhaust port. That is what was grinding. Crap. = Now the entire thing is off the firewall including the engine mount. = All the wiring is disconnected (did not find anything loose or missing). = I spent the morning looking under the panel for any loose or broken = wiring, but found none. When I get the EC-2 out, Jason wants to plug it = into his plane and we'll do the plugs and injectors test. If that = checks out, Tracy, it is coming to you for a good look. I don't know = what else to check. The engine quit just like somebody reached over and = turned off the ignition. No stumble, no hiccup, just instant silence. = I honestly do not know if the prop was turning or not. I suspect not, = due to the silence and the fact that one blade is untouched. As you can see from the photos, there was something going on with = Rotor 1. Wear is apparent down stream from the plug holes and all 3 = apex seals are starting to chip in the center. There is quite a lot of = carbon also on the rotors after 170 hours. Going forward, I have decided to look at resale value for if/when my = RV-12 days arrive. This means putting a (gasp) IO-360 on it. The = rotary has given me a safe 10-year run (til now, of course), so I have = no regrets, but this is an opportunity to make some changes, and parts = are already on the way. I will still be hanging out at the engine tent = at S-n-F and wherever else gatherings happen. Hope to be flying by the = first of next year.... I'm sure some of you will have suggestions about what might have = gone wrong, and I welcome any kind of speculation, but bear in mind I am = just looking at a pile of parts and wires at this point. Both fuel = pumps were on, tanks were over half full, crank angle sensor worked = fine. Guess it's obvious that I now have a RD-1A, EC-2, EFI Monitor = (Ed's), Felix 68/72 and Props Inc 68/72 wood props and LOTS of engine = parts (my whole 14-year stash) available! And priced to sell! Bill Eslick RV-6 13B/NA EC-2 RD-1A 750 Hours ------=_NextPart_000_0774_01CC6ADB.A19A2E40 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =EF=BB=BF
After  225 hrs of flying on my = Renesis the=20 guts of my HP were pretty well disintergrated.  I used a long = chisel and=20 other rods to finish the job.  If I were to do it a gain I'd = just make=20 a pipe to replace the muffler.
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 bktrub@aol.com
Sent: Saturday, September 03, = 2011 12:35=20 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: The = good news=20 and the bad news......

How did you remove = the muffler=20 innards? I've got a Hushpower and at this point, it's the only thing = in the=20 plane that makes me nervous, other than the guy in the = cockpit.
 
Brian Trubee



-----Original=20 Message-----
From: Dennis Havarlah <clouduster@austin.rr.com>=
To:=20 Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent:=20 Sat, Sep 3, 2011 8:26 am
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: The good news and = the bad=20 news......

Bill,
 
Great flying and decision making to = get it back=20 on the ground with "minor" damage!!!
 
I sure hope we can find the cause to = prevent it=20 in the future.  
 
One idea: Rotor #1  - still = great=20 comp.  Rotor #2 - None. First flight after plugs=20 changed.  Any possibility one plug in Rotor=20 #2 protruded beyond the housing and did = damage?  Why=20 does Rotor # 2 have no compression?
 
The muffler crap should not have = damaged anything=20 because it would only get into the engine after the nose went = down=20 and the prop stopped.
 
But on the other hand - you would = have had some=20 power from Rotor # 1  "No stumble, no hiccup, just instant = silence" That=20 indicates to me total failure of fuel or = ignition.
 
Concerning HushPower II mufflers - = After Bobby=20 H's. loss of power I removed my muffler and found the internals = failing at=20 about 225 hrs.  I removed all the internals and now fly with just = the=20 muffler shell.
 
Dennis H.
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Bryan Winberry =
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft=20
Sent: Saturday, September 03, = 2011 9:53=20 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: The = good news=20 and the bad news......

Bill,
Helluva = nice job on=20 the emergency.  Glad you=E2=80=99re unhurt.
Bryan
 
From:=20 Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironli= ne.net]=20 On Behalf Of Bill=20 Eslick
Sent: = Friday,=20 September 02, 2011 11:52 PM
To: Rotary motors in=20 aircraft
Subject: = [FlyRotary] The good news and the bad = news......
 
I have been = holding=20 up reporting this until all the facts are in, but that might never = happen,=20 so here we go.

Good = news: =20 No injuries. 

Bad news:  I have some work to=20 do.

Photos at:  http://www.tiny9.com/u/2101

On = August 16th at=20 10 AM, I lined up for takeoff at my home airport (3600' paved) into = a 5 knot=20 headwind.  I had just finished changing the oil and filter and=20 plugs.  Run-up was fine, so off I went.  Approximately = mid-field,=20 and a couple of hundred feet in the air, it suddenly and without any = warning=20 became very silent.

Hit the big switch which puts direct = battery=20 power to everything engine, but no noise.  No more time.  = At this=20 point flying the machine becomes THE priority.  Dropped the = nose and=20 was amazed to see a little bit of runway under the nose!  I had = fully=20 expected to land in trees, houses or the river, so I dove what = seemed like=20 straight down to capture as much runway as possible while (somehow) = holding=20 the electric flap switch long enough to get full flaps (noticed this = later).  Pulled probably my best round-out ever - no = bounce. =20 Brakes to max and tail up for weight.  I think my sub-concious = put it=20 all the way on the nose to try to prevent going through the fence = and down=20 the hill.  Wheel skid starts about 200 feet from the stopping=20 point.  Skid marks from the wheel pants, cowling and prop run = about the=20 last 50 feet.  It stopped nose down just off the end.  The = tail=20 was still over pavement.  Pushed the slider canopy UPHILL, = stepped out=20 and down.  Noticed that I was not even scared by the whole = event. =20 Interesting.  Never even considered trying to turn = around. =20 Pre-thinking that non-option apparently paid off. 

More = good=20 news.  No FAA or NTSB as it was a non-reportable = incident.  Didn't=20 even bend the gear legs.  Also, my neighbor crashed in a = Challenger=20 about 10 minutes earlier at the city airport about 10 miles = away.  The=20 police and rescue types were headed that way (they had injuries) and = were=20 not interested in my minor mishap.

As for the engine.  = When we=20 got it back to the hangar, the prop would turn only haltingly.  = You=20 could feel grinding going on inside.  First try at turning had = it come=20 up hard and stop.  More fooling with it and it gradually came = looser=20 and would turn.  Really looked like something came loose in=20 there.  Pulled a plug from each rotor and did a compression = test. =20 Rotor 1 was 80-80-80.  Rotor 2 was 2-2-2.  More proof that = something had come loose.  With that evidence, the insurance = company=20 allowed me to remove the engine for inspection.  What I found = was a=20 pile of ground up ceramic junk.  All the seals were still = fine. =20 Lots of time went in to finding where that stuff came from.  = Went=20 through every inch of the induction system.  Finally Jason = Hutchison=20 (my other on-airport rotary guy) broke the code.  While the RV = was=20 standing on it's nose, this crap from my burned-out Hushpower II ran = back up=20 the manifold and in the exhaust port.  That is what was = grinding. =20 Crap.  Now the entire thing is off the firewall including the = engine=20 mount.  All the wiring is disconnected (did not find anything = loose or=20 missing).  I spent the morning looking under the panel for any = loose or=20 broken wiring, but found none.  When I get the EC-2 out, Jason = wants to=20 plug it into his plane and we'll do the plugs and injectors = test.  If=20 that checks out, Tracy, it is coming to you for a good look.  I = don't=20 know what else to check.  The engine quit just like somebody = reached=20 over and turned off the ignition.  No stumble, no hiccup, just = instant=20 silence.  I honestly do not know if the prop was turning or = not. =20 I suspect not, due to the silence and the fact that one blade is=20 untouched.

As you can see from the photos, there was = something going=20 on with Rotor 1.  Wear is apparent down stream from the plug = holes and=20 all 3 apex seals are starting to chip in the center.  There is = quite a=20 lot of carbon also on the rotors after 170 hours.

Going = forward, I=20 have decided to look at resale value for if/when my RV-12 days = arrive. =20 This means putting a (gasp) IO-360 on it.  The rotary has given = me a=20 safe 10-year run (til now, of course), so I have no regrets, but = this is an=20 opportunity to make some changes, and parts are already on the = way.  I=20 will still be hanging out at the engine tent at S-n-F and wherever = else=20 gatherings happen.  Hope to be flying by the first of next=20 year....

I'm sure some of you will have suggestions about = what might=20 have gone wrong, and I welcome any kind of speculation, but bear in = mind I=20 am just looking at a pile of parts and wires at this point.  = Both fuel=20 pumps were on, tanks were over half full, crank angle sensor worked=20 fine.

Guess it's obvious that I now have a RD-1A, EC-2, EFI = Monitor=20 (Ed's),  Felix 68/72 and Props Inc 68/72 wood props and LOTS of = engine=20 parts (my whole 14-year stash) available!  And priced to = sell!

Bill = Eslick
RV-6 13B/NA=20 EC-2 RD-1A
750 = Hours

 
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