X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from nm20.access.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com ([98.139.44.147] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4.1) with SMTP id 5098430 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sat, 20 Aug 2011 11:58:38 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=98.139.44.147; envelope-from=keltro@att.net Received: from [98.139.44.101] by nm20.access.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Aug 2011 15:58:02 -0000 Received: from [98.139.44.77] by tm6.access.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Aug 2011 15:58:02 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1014.access.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Aug 2011 15:58:02 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 655490.45214.bm@omp1014.access.mail.sp2.yahoo.com Received: (qmail 35564 invoked by uid 60001); 20 Aug 2011 15:58:02 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=att.net; s=s1024; t=1313855882; bh=8FfE3kJqtRhpym5oc4LC5TRtB7XwWXiry8VvnZvGkLs=; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:References:Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=J2aPYMYODA1gCP+KKiHTJm+EOF0sMGRpVE4iv/D6B13lplXzOvn6U0gkxvhlksswxcC153EX+WvoRMDcpnqgHS5a3OfaQ/aSO55LhFne8rg/FRiqau1Yj8CWWFa7SoreGNtBg1fxkWZ2WTFAVGIVbE3sioxVZWogr5ynezY8Oag= DomainKey-Signature:a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=att.net; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:References:Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=uve2vLDryQw61InYKCz/UmmfcGRRTAoEuAH2SJ+iv/3UTskBPtzccOg+v8yccO22Ro+nV2LUwE1QJqtAl+A4cp65UxDqgMQ5SjnrFkhq0Xh/SI9FaqdqQ4W2Pf4FwAwlx/92XUMfvl4cfJnC7lcR7zUwubNnLW0VaVNja071qfE=; X-YMail-OSG: V41lKY8VM1kVfwhq2iPO4miIqqgxsSU8XHPPvQgBqN8MGmX Tu7E0CWOvXVI2MjJ9WL6rDS_Dkw4DBnpGSqxgBaiy5Qn5nWWrDnLI6v0iTlE LJJG71PqowObZ2.1dQ5x68YoUs8CPQRQXet0moMNFKMTT6KVuNUc4od5oW0n _8SWQ4Diu1WhJgz4ZN9Pc2uvzcy7ZpCJWqV3LsBIdrVWQuuxxmLdgnQIXowF .uTivVXi78AqO8NWmIhfqSmzcvy88CJsYaNMiBiCfBhSGuoaTO2fb0T0BRxH 14cpa0RpdQqrsmJDwMwaG7DRKyRs9QaebPVu_C7hbSmnVCf7.XOYTux6SWRA 67XCio3ricXS8SJKBkRC8ym.3XmfUkerWCMPxr_LZQcDKcDu3CUef_Cgvi3f VDqbzhuydUEmY_A-- Received: from [208.114.46.104] by web83910.mail.sp1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 20 Aug 2011 08:58:02 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.8.113.313619 References: Message-ID: <1313855882.34538.YahooMailNeo@web83910.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2011 08:58:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Kelly Troyer Reply-To: Kelly Troyer Subject: Re: Fwd: oil premix data; info request To: Rotary motors in aircraft In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1100215439-1313855882=:34538" --0-1100215439-1313855882=:34538 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Lynn,=0A=A0=A0 I will be using -12 hose from engine pump outlet=A0to remote= filter to cooler and to engine=0Awith a "Aviaid" external regulator with a= -10 bypass directly to the sump (overkill I am sure=0Abut I want to reduce= restriction as much as possible)........My question would a single NAPA=0A= 1515 or K&N filter flowing 9 gph put the restriction=A0I am trying to elimi= nate=A0back in..........?? =A0=0AKelly Troyer=0A"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventuall= y)=0A"13B ROTARY"_ Engine=0A"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2=0A"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Ma= nifold=0A"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo=0A=0AFrom: "Lehanover@aol.com" =0ATo: Rotary motors in aircraft = =0ASent: Saturday, August 20, 2011 10:09 AM=0ASubject: [FlyRotary] Re: Fwd:= oil premix data; info request=0A=0A=0AOf the many things to think about is= the oiling system and pieces. =0A=0AThat bypass valve that filter folks ta= lk about is not a valve at all. Most filter spin on cans have the elements = pressed against the top cover =0A(where the oil enters and leaves) by a spr= ing. Oil flows=A0into the can=A0(through the small holes=A0around the outsi= de) and exits through the big center hole. There is a seal between the oute= r small holes and the inner big hole.=0A=0AWhen the element loads up with d= irt or bearing material, the pressure drop across the element forces the el= ement away from the top plate against a spring in the bottom of the can. Th= at spring is a real coil spring in good filters, and a flat (leaf) in cheap= filters like Fram.=0A=0AWhere the can is mounted inverted, the heavy debri= s piles up around the plate end of the element. So when the element bypasse= s the oil can flow directly from the small holes to the big hole with no fi= ltration at all.=0AAnd right there is all of that dying engine debris ready= to go right back to the bearings.=A0=0A=0AWhere the can is mounted with th= e plate up, the heavy stuff is at the bottom of the can away from the plate= . May not sound like much until=0Ayou arrive at over the trees at Podunk ne= eding only=A02 seconds more power to clear that last tree and make the runw= ay.=A0=0A=0AThe remote mount is a weight penalty unless you needed more nos= e weight anyway. But provides more latitude on location and clearance. =0AT= he inverted element tends to trap foamed oil at low engine speeds, and save= it as a dose of air and condensate for your next start up. =0A=0AK&N filte= rs have a 450 to 550 pound burst can and are used in most racing classes. T= hey cost just slightly more than a good street filter and are available in = any hot rod shop or mail order. =0A=0AThe Frams that Racing Beat suggests a= re really good filters, and I would be shocked to find that Fram actually m= akes them. Those filters are way too big for aircraft use and very heavy wh= en full of oil. The usual filter stand is built to fit the Fram PH8A or Lee= FL-1 Both Ford crosses from the 70s. =A0The center hole is 3/4 x 16 thread= .=0AThe NAPA 1515 also works just fine if you have a store close by. =0AAbo= ut 9 GPM and 300 pound burst. =0A=0AThe airplane engine has a more severe d= uty cycle than a race car. It is =0Aload limited to about 6,500 RPM at wide= open throttle. So the heat is constant and high. The racer has long period= s of closed throttle and even though the RPM=A0may be much higher at times = the cooling load is lighter than for the aircraft. =A0=0A=0AWe use one ounc= e per gallon of Red Line synthetic 2 cycle oil in the fuel. No wear, and ne= ver a failure. For 2 cycle nonsynthetics I would never go less than one oun= ce per gallon. And a bit more won't hurt anything.=0ANever use synthetic cr= ank case oil in the fuel. It is very stable at high temps and will make bla= ck puddles under you exhaust pipe. =A0=0A=0AI run on as usual.=0A=0ALynn E.= Hanover=A0=0A=0AIn a message dated 8/19/2011 11:39:52 A.M. Paraguay Standa= rd Time, echristley@att.net writes:=0AOne of these remote mounts bolted to = the firewall solves a lot of problems.=A0 Just cover the filter block mount= point =0A>with a chunk of aluminum and pipe oil from the remote mount into= the port at the bottom of the engine below the port.=A0 I =0A>have an extr= a adapter to convert that port to AN if you want it, but you'll need two.= =A0 I think it was Mazda Trix that =0A>sells them.=0A>=0A>Andrew Martin wro= te:=0A>> Charlie, I made my own adapter that utilises stock filter, 20mm bl= ock =0A>> drilled to reverse oil ports and accommodate pressure,temp and RD= -1c ports.=0A>> easy to do just mark oil ports from gasket on both sides of= adapter =0A>> block then drill holes at a 45=B0 angle from each side, thin= k about it as =0A>> its not hard to do once you drill in the right directio= n.=0A>> =0A>> Andrew=0A>> =0A>> --0-1100215439-1313855882=:34538 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Lynn,
   I will = be using -12 hose from engine pump outlet to remote filter to cooler a= nd to engine
with a "Aviaid" exte= rnal regulator with a -10 bypass directly to the sump (overkill I am sure
but I want to reduce= restriction as much as possible)........My question would a single NAPA
1515 or K&N filt= er flowing 9 gph put the restriction I am trying to eliminate bac= k in..........??
 
Kelly Troyer
"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)
"13B ROTARY"_ Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil = Manifold
"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo

From:= "Lehanover@aol.com" <Lehanover@aol.com>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrota= ry@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Saturday, August 20, 2011 10:09 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Fwd: oil premix data; info reque= st

Of the many things to think about is the oiling system and pieces.
 
That bypass valve that filter folks talk about is not a valve at all. = Most filter spin on cans have the elements pressed against the top cover
(where the oil enters and leaves) by a spring. Oil flows into the= can (through the small holes around the outside) and exits throu= gh the big center hole. There is a seal between the outer small holes and t= he inner big hole.
 
When the element loads up with dirt or bearing material, the pressure = drop across the element forces the element away from the top plate against = a spring in the bottom of the can. That spring is a real coil spring in goo= d filters, and a flat (leaf) in cheap filters like Fram.
 
Where the can is mounted inverted, the heavy debris piles up around th= e plate end of the element. So when the element bypasses the oil can flow d= irectly from the small holes to the big hole with no filtration at all.
And right there is all of that dying engine debris ready to go right b= ack to the bearings. 
 
Where the can is mounted with the plate up, the heavy stuff is at the = bottom of the can away from the plate. May not sound like much until
you arrive at over the trees at Podunk needing only 2 seconds mor= e power to clear that last tree and make the runway. 
 
The remote mount is a weight penalty unless you needed more nose weigh= t anyway. But provides more latitude on location and clearance.
The inverted element tends to trap foamed oil at low engine speeds, an= d save it as a dose of air and condensate for your next start up.
 
K&N filters have a 450 to 550 pound burst can and are used in most= racing classes. They cost just slightly more than a good street filter and= are available in any hot rod shop or mail order.
 
The Frams that Racing Beat suggests are really good filters, and I wou= ld be shocked to find that Fram actually makes them. Those filters are way = too big for aircraft use and very heavy when full of oil. The usual filter = stand is built to fit the Fram PH8A or Lee FL-1 Both Ford crosses from the = 70s.  The center hole is 3/4 x 16 thread.
The NAPA 1515 also works just fine if you have a store close by.
About 9 GPM and 300 pound burst.
 
The airplane engine has a more severe duty cycle than a race car. It i= s
load limited to about 6,500 RPM at wide open throttle. So the heat is = constant and high. The racer has long periods of closed throttle and even t= hough the RPM may be much higher at times the cooling load is lighter = than for the aircraft.  
 
We use one ounce per gallon of Red Line synthetic 2 cycle oil in the f= uel. No wear, and never a failure. For 2 cycle nonsynthetics I would never = go less than one ounce per gallon. And a bit more won't hurt anything.
Never use synthetic crank case oil in the fuel. It is very stable at h= igh temps and will make black puddles under you exhaust pipe.  
 
I run on as usual.
 
Lynn E. Hanover 
 
In a message dated 8/19/2011 11:39:52 A.M. Paraguay Standard Time, ech= ristley@att.net writes:
One of these remote mounts bolted to the firewall solv= es a lot of problems.  Just cover the filter block mount point
wit= h a chunk of aluminum and pipe oil from the remote mount into the port at t= he bottom of the engine below the port.  I
have an extra adapter t= o convert that port to AN if you want it, but you'll need two.  I thin= k it was Mazda Trix that
sells them.

Andrew Martin wrote:
>= ; Charlie, I made my own adapter that utilises stock filter, 20mm block > drilled to reverse oil ports and accommodate pressure,temp and RD-1c = ports.
> easy to do just mark oil ports from gasket on both sides of = adapter
> block then drill holes at a 45=B0 angle from each side, th= ink about it as
> its not hard to do once you drill in the right direction.
>
> Andrew
>
>


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